People Need To Cool It With Stars

#1

TNHopeful505

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#1
I understand that people are disappointed with this class. But why? Because Rivals and Scout and 247 say we missed on some higher rated guys?

I'm sorry, but I don't really give a rat's butt what they think, because if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, don't you think some coach would snatch them up and put them on their staff and they'd make WAY more money?

People think that these guys are the end all be all on who is good and who is not, but all they are doing is going off of the opinions of coaches just like we do. If a player is attracting a lot of higher level attention, he's rated higher. If his offers are lower, he's less. If they don't have any attention at all, then they're unrated.

But come on people, be real. The only reason anyone is upset is because we aren't rated as high as Ohio State and Alabama and others. And that's most likely because Rivals and other scouting services say "Oh, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are going after this guy? He's probably a pretty solid player, let's start him out as a 4*."

Get off the staff's back. You see what happened with Jalen Hurd when you get a player that doesn't fit in a system. You all were happy about Hurd, and granted, he had success here. But Hurd would have been more successful in a different offense and we all know it, and it lead to conflict and him eventually leaving the program. John Kelly is going to be super successful in this offense, and he wasn't a 5*. The star system only project how likely a prospect is to contribute early in college, nothing else.

I promise you that no college coach worth their salt looks at these ratings, because no college coach is going to listen to these writers who aren't even on college staffs. If you think Saban trusts any Rivals writer over his own judgment, you're crazy. If you think Butch trusts a Scout writer over Bob Weldon who has spent years scouting NFL prospects, I can't help you.

What comes first? The 5* ratings and then the offers? It's the other way around.

And of course Rivals is right more often then not! If every coach worth their salt wants a prospect, and they rate them a Top 100 player because of that, I'd say they have a pretty high chance of being right, don't you think?

Point is, these sites are not coaches, and they honestly don't know anything. All they can do is collect information, figure out which recruits are being recruited by coaches that have a leg up in evaluation, and try to match up.

So stop putting so much stock in them. Its' incredibly subjective folks. Trey Smith is a 5* on some sites and a 4* on others. Players go from 3* to 4* all of the time. Do they instantly get better? No. Evaluators see that more credible coaches have shown interest and they adjust their ratings to follow suit.

Is it nice to get highly rated players? Yes. But we are not coaches, and it's not our butts on the lines. The coaches targeted the players they wanted, and they signed the players they thought were the best fit out of what wanted to come.

All we see is height, weight, high school, stars, offers (which are sometimes not even accurate, we all know that), and highlight films which never ever show mistakes. We never see how a player interacts with his team mates. We never see how he does in a classroom. We never see how hard he works in the weight room. We never see his family dynamics or his body language. We never see how he respects his coaches and how well he listens. The coaches do. And those things are FAR more important than their number of "stars."

These guys are no longer 3* Recruits. They're Tennessee Volunteers. Leave it alone and get behind these men who despite other offers chose to play for our beloved university.

Go Vols, and go Team 121.
 
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#3
#3
I understand that people are disappointed with this class. But why? Because Rivals and Scout and 247 say we missed on some higher rated guys?

I'm sorry, but I don't really give a rat's butt what they think, because if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, don't you think some coach would snatch them up and put them on their staff and they'd make WAY more money?

People think that these guys are the end all be all on who is good and who is not, but all they are doing is going off of the opinions of coaches just like we do. If a player is attracting a lot of higher level attention, he's rated higher. If his offers are lower, he's less. If they don't have any attention at all, then they're unrated.

But come on people, be real. The only reason anyone is upset is because we aren't rated as high as Ohio State and Alabama and others. And that's most likely because Rivals and other scouting services say "Oh, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are going after this guy? He's probably a pretty solid player, let's start him out as a 4*."

Get off the staff's back. You see what happened with Jalen Hurd when you get a player that doesn't fit in a system. You all were happy about Hurd, and granted, he had success here. But Hurd would have been more successful in a different offense and we all know it, and it lead to conflict and him eventually leaving the program. John Kelly is going to be super successful in this offense, and he wasn't a 5*. The star system only project how likely a prospect is to contribute early in college, nothing else.

I promise you that no college coach worth their salt looks at these ratings, because no college coach is going to listen to these writers who aren't even on college staffs. If you think Saban trusts any Rivals writer over his own judgment, you're crazy. If you think Butch trusts a Scout writer over Bob Weldon who has spent years scouting NFL prospects, I can't help you.

What comes first? The 5* ratings and then the offers? It's the other way around.

And of course Rivals is right more often then not! If every coach worth their salt wants a prospect, and they rate them a Top 100 player because of that, I'd say they have a pretty high chance of being right, don't you think?

Point is, these sites are not coaches, and they honestly don't know anything. All they can do is collect information, figure out which recruits are being recruited by coaches that have a leg up in evaluation, and try to match up.

So stop putting so much stock in them. Its' incredibly subjective folks. Trey Smith is a 5* on some sites and a 4* on others. Players go from 3* to 4* all of the time. Do they instantly get better? No. Evaluators see that more credible coaches have shown interest and they adjust their ratings to follow suit.

Is it nice to get highly rated players? Yes. But we are not coaches, and it's not our butts on the lines. The coaches targeted the players they wanted, and they signed the players they thought were the best fit out of what wanted to come.

All we see is height, weight, high school, stars, offers (which are sometimes not even accurate, we all know that), and highlight films which never ever show mistakes. We never see how a player interacts with his team mates. We never see how he does in a classroom. We never see how hard he works in the weight room. We never see his family dynamics or his body language. We never see how he respects his coaches and how well he listens. The coaches do. And those things are FAR more important than their number of "stars."

These guys are no longer 3* Recruits. They're Tennessee Volunteers. Leave it alone and get behind these men who despite other offers chose to play for our beloved university.

Go Vols, and go Team 121.

I don't see Hurd coming here to play in this style offense. Something had to be promised. CBJ should have layed down the law from the get go if he knew he was keeping this offense imo
 
#5
#5
I get that you cant go by stars alone, but the research is there that stars do actually matter.

Stars don't matter. What you're referring to is a correlation between a person's stars and their success.

But as I said, if Saban, Meyer, Swinney, Fisher, and every other coach who wins looks at a guy and says "hey he's good," then rating him a 5* is much less of a gamble.

A player is not any better because of his rating obviously. But the more attention a player gets from major schools and coaches who are good evaluators, the more likely they are to have higher ratings.
 
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#6
#6
OP, honestly, were you excited about the 14 and 15 classes?

Sure, I was, but I'm excited about this one too. Every single class has produced players that surprised me. I think we have players on here that are going to be great contributors. I think ratings and these "services" ruin the college game in some ways.

I'm not NOT going to be excited just because we have more "3 Star" players than normal. I don't care what they are rated. I care how they're going to play in our system and how they're going to develop. If our staff wants them, they can ride or die with them. But i'm not going to not be excited about a kid coming to play for us simply because some dude at a desk said he's a 3* and not a 4* or 5*
 
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#7
#7
I get that you cant go by stars alone, but the research is there that stars do actually matter.

I think a lot of that "research" is weighted by including Alabama and their coach is more of a factor than whether they finish ranked 1st or 15th. There is plenty of other evidence that contradicts the star gazers. For instance, Clemson just won the national title with only one consensus top 10 recruiting class in the past 4 years (2015). They somehow beat a team comprised of three #1 and one #2 nationally-ranked recruiting classes.
 
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#8
#8
Stars don't matter. What you're referring to is a correlation between a person's stars and their success.

But as I said, if Saban, Meyer, Swinney, Fisher, and every other coach who wins looks at a guy and says "hey he's good," then rating him a 5* is much less of a gamble.

A player is not any better because of his rating obviously. But the more attention a player gets from major schools and coaches who are good evaluators, the more likely they are to have higher ratings.

Here. Read up on what stars mean before you say they don't matter....
Rivals, Scout, ESPN, 247: Star rating systems explained - CougCenter
 
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#9
#9
The only people saying stars don't matter are those fans of teams that don't have a ton of 4 and 5 stars. Stars aren't the end all, be all, but saying they don't matter at all is just a fallacy IMO.
 
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#11
#11
Here. Read up on what stars mean before you say they don't matter....
Rivals, Scout, ESPN, 247: Star rating systems explained - CougCenter

That doesn't tell me anything. It's still a subjective system that is made up of people who are not recruiting coordinators, that are making a fraction of what an assistant coach on a college staff would make. If you're a college coach, and you think their evaluators are so good, why don't you hire them to scout players for you?

I just don't trust someone behind a desk to tell me how good a player is going to work in my coach's system, because he's not my coach, and he doesn't know what my coach wants.

It's all subjective and opinionated, and we get FAR too involved in it, and the recruits themselves do too. If the players had no stars (like they used to), you'd be excited about every one of them, and they'd all start out on equal footing with equal expectations.

I know what they mean and how they arrive at them. But they are in the end worthless outside of perhaps helping a coach find a prospect. But that's it from what i've seen.
 
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#15
#15
Stars aren't the end all, be all, but saying they don't matter at all is just a fallacy IMO.

I don't think anyone is saying they don't matter at all. We're just not all out on the ledge ready to jump because we finished with the 15th best recruiting class in the nation.
 
#16
#16
But when your coaching staff hasn't shown the fanbase that they have the ability to develop players...:ermm:

I'm not debating that point. I'm just simply taking up for the members of this class by saying that just because they aren't "highly rated" by people who aren't even coaches does not mean that we shouldn't be incredibly excited about them, and optimistic about their futures here. God, if I had just signed with Tennessee, by people's reactions, I'd think that I'm not good enough to play here, and I should have signed with Georgia State or somebody. Just let it play out before you judge. There's no sense in being overly angry or overly excited about any class. Let them play on the field. That's the only place where anything matters.
 
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#17
#17
I don't think anyone is saying they don't matter at all. We're just not all out on the ledge ready to jump because we finished with the 15th best recruiting class in the nation.

I think they matter to the extent of perception. As in, Alabama has 7 straight #1 classes, they are EXPECTED to be good because of that. People hyped us after 4 straight fantastic finishes. For that reason, I think they're important.

But that doesn't mean I think they're good or that anybody should care about them. The facts are they influence perception, but they shouldn't sway our feelings about our players or our coaches' recruiting job.
 
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#18
#18
They miss on as many as they hit on. Especially lower rated players. They are getting better w 5 stars but there are far more 2 & 3 star players in the superbowl than high 4 & 5 stars.

Its like everything else in major college football these days. Its a money grab and we all fall for it, myself included.
 
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#19
#19
I understand that people are disappointed with this class. But why? Because Rivals and Scout and 247 say we missed on some higher rated guys?

I'm sorry, but I don't really give a rat's butt what they think, because if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, don't you think some coach would snatch them up and put them on their staff and they'd make WAY more money?

People think that these guys are the end all be all on who is good and who is not, but all they are doing is going off of the opinions of coaches just like we do. If a player is attracting a lot of higher level attention, he's rated higher. If his offers are lower, he's less. If they don't have any attention at all, then they're unrated.

But come on people, be real. The only reason anyone is upset is because we aren't rated as high as Ohio State and Alabama and others. And that's most likely because Rivals and other scouting services say "Oh, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are going after this guy? He's probably a pretty solid player, let's start him out as a 4*."

Get off the staff's back. You see what happened with Jalen Hurd when you get a player that doesn't fit in a system. You all were happy about Hurd, and granted, he had success here. But Hurd would have been more successful in a different offense and we all know it, and it lead to conflict and him eventually leaving the program. John Kelly is going to be super successful in this offense, and he wasn't a 5*. The star system only project how likely a prospect is to contribute early in college, nothing else.

I promise you that no college coach worth their salt looks at these ratings, because no college coach is going to listen to these writers who aren't even on college staffs. If you think Saban trusts any Rivals writer over his own judgment, you're crazy. If you think Butch trusts a Scout writer over Bob Weldon who has spent years scouting NFL prospects, I can't help you.

What comes first? The 5* ratings and then the offers? It's the other way around.

And of course Rivals is right more often then not! If every coach worth their salt wants a prospect, and they rate them a Top 100 player because of that, I'd say they have a pretty high chance of being right, don't you think?

Point is, these sites are not coaches, and they honestly don't know anything. All they can do is collect information, figure out which recruits are being recruited by coaches that have a leg up in evaluation, and try to match up.

So stop putting so much stock in them. Its' incredibly subjective folks. Trey Smith is a 5* on some sites and a 4* on others. Players go from 3* to 4* all of the time. Do they instantly get better? No. Evaluators see that more credible coaches have shown interest and they adjust their ratings to follow suit.

Is it nice to get highly rated players? Yes. But we are not coaches, and it's not our butts on the lines. The coaches targeted the players they wanted, and they signed the players they thought were the best fit out of what wanted to come.

All we see is height, weight, high school, stars, offers (which are sometimes not even accurate, we all know that), and highlight films which never ever show mistakes. We never see how a player interacts with his team mates. We never see how he does in a classroom. We never see how hard he works in the weight room. We never see his family dynamics or his body language. We never see how he respects his coaches and how well he listens. The coaches do. And those things are FAR more important than their number of "stars."

These guys are no longer 3* Recruits. They're Tennessee Volunteers. Leave it alone and get behind these men who despite other offers chose to play for our beloved university.

Go Vols, and go Team 121.

3 debunked recruiting myths that prove Signing Day is crucial | FOX Sports
 
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#20
#20
They miss on as many as they hit on. Especially lower rated players. They are getting better w 5 stars but there are far more 2 & 3 star players in the superbowl than high 4 & 5 stars.

Its like everything else in major college football these days. Its a money grab and we all fall for it, myself included.


Could that be because there are exponentially more 2 and 3 star recruits in every single class?
 
#24
#24
Stars mattered a lot to everyone including Butch back when Butch finished in top 5. What changed so that they no longer matter? Nothing other than Butch can no longer get those types of classes after posting subpar W-L results over last 4 years - so to support Butch going forward the narrative must change to stars are not important. :crazy:
 
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#25
#25
Stars mattered a lot to everyone including Butch back when Butch finished in top 5. What changed so that they no longer matter? Nothing other than Butch can no longer get those types of classes after posting subpar W-L results over last 4 years - so to support Butch going forward the narrative must change to stars are not important. :crazy:

Just because they happen to have a recruiting sites ranking doesn't mean he deemed it more important. His after class comments have been pretty consistent id say.
 
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