People Need To Cool It With Stars

#76
#76
Stars don't matter? Hmm... OP, what if you had these three choices, 25 3*, 25 4*, or 25 5*? Which class would you take? I don't know about anyone else, but I'm taking the 5* class. I understand that no player is a guarantee and that player development is crucial...but, really???

This is silly. Accept that we have a decent but not exceptional class.

Some speech.
One thing, if those he was talking to referred to the class as "decent", this thread would never exist.

I want as much talent as we can possibly get. I'm also disgusted by how our fans have talked about these kids, because they hate Jones. Top 20 has a lot of talent and they damn sure shouldn't be berated like scum because a group of of supposed grown men pitch misguided tantrums.
Call Jones whatever names you wish for losing guys we wanted.
But they need to stop humiliating kids that have only chosen to come to UT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#78
#78
So let me get this straight. Players are rated higher when elite coaches go after them? So if elite coaches go after them, that must mean the elite coaches think they are good. So if the elite coaches think they're good, there's a good chance they are good, which would mean the higher rated players are better than the lower rated players getting less attention more often than not correct? Which means the stars do matter. We should start referring to ourselves as Vandy east bc that's what we sound like saying stars are pointless etc just accept the class for what it is and that's mediocre. Sound just like Vandy fans defending their class.

I assume you are replying to my earlier post. If you are, you completely missed the point.

The recruiting sites follow the top university offers. There are only so many staff members at each university. The first kids they evaluate and give offers are the ones that show up first on the recruiting sites' radars.

This doesn't mean that kids who are evaluated and offered later in the cycle by those same universities are any less talented, but they will not receive a grade as high as the initial recruits who were evaluated. This is how recruiting service build their database.

This is why offer lists should be considered as a more accurate and reliable way to gauge a recruit compared to star rankings. Offer lists are not effected by recruiting services and are a result of many colleges doing their own internal evaluation of the recruit.

You can observe this the next time you see a 3-star with an insane offer list or a 4* with an unimpressive list. When this happens, you can be sure that the recruiting sites have done a poor job of ranking those recruits.
 
#79
#79
I understand that people are disappointed with this class. But why? Because Rivals and Scout and 247 say we missed on some higher rated guys?

I'm sorry, but I don't really give a rat's butt what they think, because if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, don't you think some coach would snatch them up and put them on their staff and they'd make WAY more money?

People think that these guys are the end all be all on who is good and who is not, but all they are doing is going off of the opinions of coaches just like we do. If a player is attracting a lot of higher level attention, he's rated higher. If his offers are lower, he's less. If they don't have any attention at all, then they're unrated.

But come on people, be real. The only reason anyone is upset is because we aren't rated as high as Ohio State and Alabama and others. And that's most likely because Rivals and other scouting services say "Oh, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are going after this guy? He's probably a pretty solid player, let's start him out as a 4*."

Get off the staff's back. You see what happened with Jalen Hurd when you get a player that doesn't fit in a system. You all were happy about Hurd, and granted, he had success here. But Hurd would have been more successful in a different offense and we all know it, and it lead to conflict and him eventually leaving the program. John Kelly is going to be super successful in this offense, and he wasn't a 5*. The star system only project how likely a prospect is to contribute early in college, nothing else.

I promise you that no college coach worth their salt looks at these ratings, because no college coach is going to listen to these writers who aren't even on college staffs. If you think Saban trusts any Rivals writer over his own judgment, you're crazy. If you think Butch trusts a Scout writer over Bob Weldon who has spent years scouting NFL prospects, I can't help you.

What comes first? The 5* ratings and then the offers? It's the other way around.

And of course Rivals is right more often then not! If every coach worth their salt wants a prospect, and they rate them a Top 100 player because of that, I'd say they have a pretty high chance of being right, don't you think?

Point is, these sites are not coaches, and they honestly don't know anything. All they can do is collect information, figure out which recruits are being recruited by coaches that have a leg up in evaluation, and try to match up.

So stop putting so much stock in them. Its' incredibly subjective folks. Trey Smith is a 5* on some sites and a 4* on others. Players go from 3* to 4* all of the time. Do they instantly get better? No. Evaluators see that more credible coaches have shown interest and they adjust their ratings to follow suit.

Is it nice to get highly rated players? Yes. But we are not coaches, and it's not our butts on the lines. The coaches targeted the players they wanted, and they signed the players they thought were the best fit out of what wanted to come.

All we see is height, weight, high school, stars, offers (which are sometimes not even accurate, we all know that), and highlight films which never ever show mistakes. We never see how a player interacts with his team mates. We never see how he does in a classroom. We never see how hard he works in the weight room. We never see his family dynamics or his body language. We never see how he respects his coaches and how well he listens. The coaches do. And those things are FAR more important than their number of "stars."

These guys are no longer 3* Recruits. They're Tennessee Volunteers. Leave it alone and get behind these men who despite other offers chose to play for our beloved university.

Go Vols, and go Team 121.

If we can't win a SEC or national title, the negative fan wants a recruiting title. Forget the fact that the 15 5 star players they hope for might have an IQ not much higher than their age, or should major in criminal justice to learn what is against the law.

Never mind that two prized one time 5 star players from last years team made like Eric Cartman and said, "Screw you guys, I'm going home." For them, it is ALL about the stars. and finding someone to blame when things don't go well. Hell. Even if things went right, they would still gripe. Part of their joy in life I guess.
 
#83
#83
I understand that people are disappointed with this class. But why? Because Rivals and Scout and 247 say we missed on some higher rated guys?

I'm sorry, but I don't really give a rat's butt what they think, because if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, don't you think some coach would snatch them up and put them on their staff and they'd make WAY more money?

People think that these guys are the end all be all on who is good and who is not, but all they are doing is going off of the opinions of coaches just like we do. If a player is attracting a lot of higher level attention, he's rated higher. If his offers are lower, he's less. If they don't have any attention at all, then they're unrated.

But come on people, be real. The only reason anyone is upset is because we aren't rated as high as Ohio State and Alabama and others. And that's most likely because Rivals and other scouting services say "Oh, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer are going after this guy? He's probably a pretty solid player, let's start him out as a 4*."

Get off the staff's back. You see what happened with Jalen Hurd when you get a player that doesn't fit in a system. You all were happy about Hurd, and granted, he had success here. But Hurd would have been more successful in a different offense and we all know it, and it lead to conflict and him eventually leaving the program. John Kelly is going to be super successful in this offense, and he wasn't a 5*. The star system only project how likely a prospect is to contribute early in college, nothing else.

I promise you that no college coach worth their salt looks at these ratings, because no college coach is going to listen to these writers who aren't even on college staffs. If you think Saban trusts any Rivals writer over his own judgment, you're crazy. If you think Butch trusts a Scout writer over Bob Weldon who has spent years scouting NFL prospects, I can't help you.

What comes first? The 5* ratings and then the offers? It's the other way around.

And of course Rivals is right more often then not! If every coach worth their salt wants a prospect, and they rate them a Top 100 player because of that, I'd say they have a pretty high chance of being right, don't you think?

Point is, these sites are not coaches, and they honestly don't know anything. All they can do is collect information, figure out which recruits are being recruited by coaches that have a leg up in evaluation, and try to match up.

So stop putting so much stock in them. Its' incredibly subjective folks. Trey Smith is a 5* on some sites and a 4* on others. Players go from 3* to 4* all of the time. Do they instantly get better? No. Evaluators see that more credible coaches have shown interest and they adjust their ratings to follow suit.

Is it nice to get highly rated players? Yes. But we are not coaches, and it's not our butts on the lines. The coaches targeted the players they wanted, and they signed the players they thought were the best fit out of what wanted to come.

All we see is height, weight, high school, stars, offers (which are sometimes not even accurate, we all know that), and highlight films which never ever show mistakes. We never see how a player interacts with his team mates. We never see how he does in a classroom. We never see how hard he works in the weight room. We never see his family dynamics or his body language. We never see how he respects his coaches and how well he listens. The coaches do. And those things are FAR more important than their number of "stars."

These guys are no longer 3* Recruits. They're Tennessee Volunteers. Leave it alone and get behind these men who despite other offers chose to play for our beloved university.

Go Vols, and go Team 121.

Whats next, they got 5* heart? Oh wait...
 
#84
#84
I understand your dilemma. Fortunately our HC is the old school type of a coach who is immune to using the internet to promote himself with recruits.

serveimage

Did someone from the UTAD actually make that?

:sick:
 
#85
#85
Stars matter to winning. But, you need to consistently get best competition. im sure Saban gets three or foir three stars a class. But we simply went after some mid major kids and thats not acceptable here.

Shoop will need to earn that 1.15, he doesnt like to recruit apparently. Well hes not good enough to win with X'a and O's alone.
 
#86
#86
#14 in recruiting rankings = actual wins average of 7 from all seasons following the recruiting period stated. #14 in recruiting rankings = middle of the pack in the SEC in roster quality. High quality coaching only adds one win per season on average. Poor quality deducts one to two wins per season. Average coaching is neutral and provides 7-5 and 8-4 seasons.
 
#88
#88
Some speech.
One thing, if those he was talking to referred to the class as "decent", this thread would never exist.

I want as much talent as we can possibly get. I'm also disgusted by how our fans have talked about these kids, because they hate Jones. Top 20 has a lot of talent and they damn sure shouldn't be berated like scum because a group of of supposed grown men pitch misguided tantrums.
Call Jones whatever names you wish for losing guys we wanted.
But they need to stop humiliating kids that have only chosen to come to UT.

I also think it's ridiculous to trash a kid because of his star rating. Each of these players chose UT and we should be thankful. I've never trashed a recruit/commit because of a star rating. I don't get on here on a daily basis and participate in the Jones beat down. However, the whole stars don't matter argument is wrong when evaluating the talent level of a given class. Stars aren't the end all be all. But, look at teams like Alabama. Saban no doubt recruits the most talented football players he can find. How come those talented players also quite frequently come with 4 or 5*s beside their names?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#89
#89
Yes stars matter but as everything it is to an extent, Bamas final totals put them like 400 points ahead of 2nd place Ohio St and Georgia just a few points behind them, but then you look from number 4 down to I think the top 15 and it's only like a 25 or 30 point difference between all other teams, that's the equivalent to having one more solid ranked 4 star and the teams and rankings become pretty much interchangeable, it's a log jam. That's where coaching and player development become more crucial IMHO,
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#90
#90
I also think it's ridiculous to trash a kid because of his star rating. Each of these players chose UT and we should be thankful. I've never trashed a recruit/commit because of a star rating. I don't get on here on a daily basis and participate in the Jones beat down. However, the whole stars don't matter argument is wrong when evaluating the talent level of a given class. Stars aren't the end all be all. But, look at teams like Alabama. Saban no doubt recruits the most talented football players he can find. How come those talented players also quite frequently come with 4 or 5*s beside their names?

I understand.
My point was, agree or disagree with the op, the thread never exists without the bashing of the class.
"Butch can't compete" or even "Jones is trash", that's an opinion, which is the purpose of this site.
Calling the kids "bottom of the barrel", isn't imo.

What makes it worse, the poster below you is absolutely correct. There is a .02 or less rating difference in 4* Ignont and the next 4 or 5 guys. That's literally almost nothing. Yet that's the difference between "really good class" and "trash" to many of our posters.

Several know and understand this but are still using demeaning terms with purpose of going after Jones. They can hate on him all they want but be men about it, stop demeaning our guys to do so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#91
#91
Charger, I agree a 100 percent, I was a talented ball player that had a dream of playing football professionally, my dream was to play for UT in the process, unfortunately a heart problem in my sophomore year ended my playing career, I couldn't even watch a game for years, it's ok to be disappointed in this class but why so much hate and vitriol for the kids that have done what they had to do, and got the chance to live out a dream and play for our beloved Vols. They put in the work,they chose to come here no matter the circumstance, made a choice to represent our state, and quite honestly are taking a gamble on their future, and yet they are being trashed by people that haven't put in the work or went through those experiences, it is absolutely maddening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#92
#92
Yes stars matter but as everything it is to an extent, Bamas final totals put them like 400 points ahead of 2nd place Ohio St and Georgia just a few points behind them, but then you look from number 4 down to I think the top 15 and it's only like a 25 or 30 point difference between all other teams, that's the equivalent to having one more solid ranked 4 star and the teams and rankings become pretty much interchangeable, it's a log jam. That's where coaching and player development become more crucial IMHO,

Don't bring logic to this it goes against the narrative that CBJ sucks. 😄
 
Last edited:
#93
#93
Stars doesn't matter ONLY when you can't get higher rated players. If stars don't really matter, I should go tell this to my HR department. They should set up recruiting events in community colleges and high schools, and skip the fancy universities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#94
#94
Don't bring logic to this it goes against the narrative CBJ sucks. 😄

That's the thing I'm really not trying to advocate for Butch, truth of the matter after the Oklahoma game in 15 and the way it ended with Stryker running his mouth in our house if the man had been in front of me he would have carried an a$$ beating, but we are still with in striking distance of a top five class if just a couple of guys pan out higher than their ranking, so that gives us a shot at a good run next year if things fall into place, as I said this year is the year coaching and development matter more than our recruiting rank, especially when added to the talent still on the roster.
 
#96
#96
My hope is that these kids have excellent college experiences and develop into great football players. I also hope Jones is here when they graduate because that would mean we have a competitive program with possibly an SECt to boast. I have my doubts about the latter, but I've been wrong before... I'll be rooting for them regardless.
 
#97
#97
Its not the kids fault for taking a chance of a lifetime an opportunity playing for the university of Tennessee ie football. Thats why coaching is important. I think VA Tech. Has a really good coach he is use to doing more with less. I know some nimrod is going to say we beat them but vtech played in their conference championship game it aint where you start its where u finish. I do not trust the guy getting the groceries ( Lyle Butch Jones) he is too inconsistent and his track record states that. On recrecruiting class u can judge it until the jr year. That tells a lot about that class.
 
#99
#99
Don't bring logic to this it goes against the narrative that CBJ sucks. 😄

Maybe avg....better than Dooley anyways :) At this point he only won 8 out of 12 in-season games after a #5 and #7 class in the nation
 
Another way to look at star rating is probability. A given star rating is relatively useless for a given player, but relative for the entire class. In addition, there is no 'star' measurement for player development and the impact of the staff and facilities.

An individual has measurable aspects (speed, strength, etc) but also many variables that are not measured (football IQ, tenacity, heart/desire, discipline, etc). The intangibles play a very large part in the individuals player development.

As a group, these measured and intangible aspects are averaged over the group. From a development perspective, the high star players with poor intangibles are no better than low star players with positive intangibles. For the group, the higher the rating, the more likely that the group will perform to expectations.
 

VN Store



Back
Top