Peyton could end owning all NFL QB records - I'm so proud!!!

#26
#26
Peyton and I are the same age. We both entered UT the same semester as Freshman and I actually ran in to him a few times on campus. It's makes me feel still relatively young that he's still in the league playing. However, when I look at what he has done in his lifetime compared to me, I feel like a complete failure. That is all.
 
#27
#27
He's certainly the best playing right now, and that includes Tom Brady (Super Bowl rings be damned). Is he the best ever? For me it's between him and John Unitas. Unitas was the first NFL QB to make a living at reading defenses and calling plays at the line, it's obvious Peyton has studied him. Peyton gets the nod because of the color of his uni :).

He deserves all the accolades he gets, and that guy from Michigan should give him his Heisman back (no I won't get past it).
 
#28
#28
BigOrangeTrain said:
I agree with 99% of this. It does suck that those stats fall on a QB and many average to below average QB's have wen to the Super Bowl just because of their team. Look at Trent Dilfer, that 2000 Ravens team would not have won anything without that defense. It sure as hell wasn't because of him. Rex Grossman is in the same boat. Without the Bears D, they never make it to the Super Bowl.

The only thing I disagree with is the best to ever play. I highly doubt anybody will ever match what Montana did. Peyton will be #2 though :)
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Peyton has already eclipsed all of Montana's career numbers at the QB position -- and he did it in fewer seasons than Montana played. Of course, Montana was part of the most dominant team of his era. I'm sure Peyton would love to be able to claim that.
 
#29
#29
Hacksaw said:
Peyton has already eclipsed all of Montana's career numbers at the QB position -- and he did it in fewer seasons than Montana played. Of course, Montana was part of the most dominant team of his era. I'm sure Peyton would love to be able to claim that.
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Peyton will have a longer career and he plays in a much easier time. Wen Montana played defenders could actually hit the other players. Peyton also has thrown A LOT more than Montana.

Peyton has had some very dominate teams and still not won Super Bowls.

Oh and one stat that Montana holds over EVERY QB that has ever played in the Super Bowl. 4 Super Bowl appearances and 4 wins. Also there is the fact that he never threw an INT.

I love Peyton Manning but like another poster said, he has a long way to go to become the GOAT.
 
#30
#30
Hacksaw said:
Exactly. As frustrating as it is to hear the talking heads continue to espouse this false premise, it's really irritating to hear Peyton's so-called supporters parrot it. Wins and championships are TEAM accomplishments. Some of the best QBs to ever play the position NEVER won a championship. It doesn't make them any less great.

Conversely, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler & Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl rings don't automatically vault them ahead of Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton in the opinion of any informed fan.

It's such an obvious point, it's almost embarrassing how many people seem to be confused about it.
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The OP's thread said Manning "could end up owning all NFL records." I believe the ultimate goal is to win Super Bowls and simply pointed out that he has a long way to go to reach 5 Super Bowl victories.
 
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#31
#31
VFL1953 said:
He's certainly the best playing right now, and that includes Tom Brady (Super Bowl rings be damned). Is he the best ever? For me it's between him and John Unitas. Unitas was the first NFL QB to make a living at reading defenses and calling plays at the line, it's obvious Peyton has studied him. Peyton gets the nod because of the color of his uni :).

He deserves all the accolades he gets, and that guy from Michigan should give him his Heisman back (no I won't get past it).
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There is no way that one can say that Manning is better than Brady. Season stats are nice and so are MVP awards, but how you play in the playoffs is what sets QB's apart. Manning is the greatest regular season QB, but his performance in the playoffs is not the same. Check out Brady's stats in the post season and if it wasn't for David Tyree's one handed face mask catch, Brady would have 4 Super Bowls. Brady has had the benefit of playing under a genius HC, but he has never had the receivers Peyton has. The Patriots roll in new WR's every year because their philosophy is to not spend the big $$$ on WR's. Other than a end of career Randy Moss, name another WR that comes close to Wayne & Harrison. Most important point though is that Manning is a Vol- that puts him ahead of Brady for sentimental reasons.
 
#32
#32
BigOrangeTrain said:
Peyton will have a longer career and he plays in a much easier time. Wen Montana played defenders could actually hit the other players. Peyton also has thrown A LOT more than Montana.

Peyton has had some very dominate teams and still not won Super Bowls.

Oh and one stat that Montana holds over EVERY QB that has ever played in the Super Bowl. 4 Super Bowl appearances and 4 wins. Also there is the fact that he never threw an INT.

I love Peyton Manning but like another poster said, he has a long way to go to become the GOAT.
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So many fallacies and irrelevancies in your post. And so many that are so familiar. It's the same old mantra that is repeated by the Peyton haters. How could anyone who claims to be a Peyton supporter buy into such nonsense? It really is hard to believe.

Peyton has had a longer career. Montana played 15 seasons and Peyton is in his 16th season. So that gets held against Peyton? Never mind that his AVERAGE career QB stats are better than Montana's in just about every category. Why is it even worth mentioning that Peyton has played longer when it's already been pointed-out that he eclipsed Montana's numbers in fewer seasons than Montana played? Do you not get that? How else can I make it clear? Yes, he has thrown more. He's completed more, too. His career completion % is better than Montana's. His yards/completion % is better. His TD % is better and so is his career QB rating. And since you mentioned INTs, it may surprise you to know that Montana's career INT % was 2.6 -- identical to Peyton's.

Yes, Montana played a shorter career. I say Peyton has played longer because he's bigger, stronger and tougher than Montana. But so are all the players playing at all the other positions in the NFL nowadays, compared to Montana's era. Yeah, when Montana played, the game was so much tougher. That's why it took until now for the NFL to start changing all of the rules about hitting to protect the players. I guess if Peyton had played back then, he would have had even more than just four neck surgeries to overcome. A much easier time -- LOL! I'm old enough to remember Montana's career. Back then they actually called pass interference!

Peyton has never played on a dominant team. No one would say that he's played on the most dominant team of his era -- as Montana did. That distinction goes to Tom Brady. Peyton has never had a great defense that he could rely on. He's always had to take more risks than Montana did. He never had Jerry Rice to throw to. I can post more stats to back this up, but I realize they do get tedious after a while.

Peyton has a "long way to go" to be considered the GOAT? Really?! He's already considered to be among the GOAT by most knowledgeable people right now. How many more NFL QB records does he have to shatter to be in consideration in your mind? I've already dealt with Montana, whose SB rings are really the only thing he's got over Manning -- and it's already been established that those are TEAM achievements, not individual accomplishments. Name any QB you think is more deserving of GOAT and I can make an argument for why Peyton is better that would be very hard to dispute.

It took me a very long time to allow myself to accept Peyton's greatness among the all-time great QBs in NFL history. I was very aware of my own biases as a lifelong Tennessee fan and Peyton supporter. But the numbers don't lie.
 
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#33
#33
jkleno said:
There is no way that one can say that Manning is better than Brady. Season stats are nice and so are MVP awards, but how you play in the playoffs is what sets QB's apart. Manning is the greatest regular season QB, but his performance in the playoffs is not the same. Check out Brady's stats in the post season and if it wasn't for David Tyree's one handed face mask catch, Brady would have 4 Super Bowls. Brady has had the benefit of playing under a genius HC, but he has never had the receivers Peyton has. The Patriots roll in new WR's every year because their philosophy is to not spend the big $$$ on WR's. Other than a end of career Randy Moss, name another WR that comes close to Wayne & Harrison. Most important point though is that Manning is a Vol- that puts him ahead of Brady for sentimental reasons.
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"To me, he's the greatest of all-time." -- Tom Brady on Peyton Manning
 
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#34
#34
There's a big difference between statistics and clutch. There is no doubt that Manning has far better regular season statistics than Montana. No doubt. So why are Montana's so much better when it matters? Clutch. When the game is in the line, I'll take Montana. Every time.

Love Peyton to death, but no reasonable fan can deny that he has a tendency to try too hard in big games and look bad (Florida/New England). Not every time, but too often. Nobody is perfect; that's his flaw.

And he had some pretty dominant teams. Seems like they were 12+ wins every year, then usually flopped.
 
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#35
#35
wombat7477 said:
There's a big difference between statistics and clutch. There is no doubt that Manning has far better regular season statistics than Montana. No doubt. So why are Montana's so much better when it matters? Clutch. When the game is in the line, I'll take Montana. Every time.

Love Peyton to death, but no reasonable fan can deny that he has a tendency to try too hard in big games and look bad (Florida/New England). Not every time, but too often. Nobody is perfect; that's his flaw.

And he had some pretty dominant teams. Seems like they were 12+ wins every year, then usually flopped.
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It's easy to be "clutch" when you don't feel like you're carrying the whole team on your shoulders. It's easy when you know you don't have to take risks, because you know your defense is going to stop the other team and give you the ball back.

This argument really boils down to one thing: an understanding of the difference between INDIVIDUAL and TEAM accomplishments. I'm absolutely certain that, given the choice, Peyton would gladly give up all of his individual accomplishments and awards in exchange for a few more SB wins. But it's a TEAM game. TEAMS win games and championships. If every member of the TEAMS that Peyton has played on had played their positions at the same high level that Peyton played at, do you not think there's a chance that he would have more rings?

Look...maybe you really do believe that Jeff Hostetler was a better NFL QB than Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton. Because that's what we're talking about here -- not who has more SB rings. If you do believe that, then I can't help you.
 
#36
#36
^ The one ring Peyton has he was terrible in those playoffs. He threw 3 touchdowns and 7 INT's. The defense and run game carried the colts to a super bowl. He didn't even perform well when he had all the other players playing their position. He is not that good when it counts in the playoffs. Make all the excuses you want, Eli Manning is better in the playoffs.

I saw that offense get shut down last night by one of the worse pass defenses in the NFL. Peyton chokes in big games, expect more of the same in the playoffs when it really counts.
 
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#37
#37
bay224 said:
^ The one ring Peyton has he was terrible in those playoffs. He threw 3 touchdowns and 7 INT's. The defense and run game carried the colts to a super bowl. He didn't even perform well when he had all the other players playing their position. He is not that good when it counts in the playoffs. Make all the excuses you want, Eli Manning is better in the playoffs.

I saw that offense get shut down last night by one of the worse pass defenses in the NFL. Peyton chokes in big games, expect more of the same in the playoffs when it really counts.
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I'm sorry.....you were saying.......

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#38
#38
bay224 said:
^ The one ring Peyton has he was terrible in those playoffs. He threw 3 touchdowns and 7 INT's. The defense and run game carried the colts to a super bowl. He didn't even perform well when he had all the other players playing their position. He is not that good when it counts in the playoffs. Make all the excuses you want, Eli Manning is better in the playoffs.

I saw that offense get shut down last night by one of the worse pass defenses in the NFL. Peyton chokes in big games, expect more of the same in the playoffs when it really counts.
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San Diego's defense held Denver to 18 yards rushing, while Denver's defense allowed 177 yards on the ground to the Chargers.

Meanwhile, Peyton threw for almost 300 yards and 2 TDs.

But you're right about Peyton's SB win. It was a TEAM win, which is what I've been saying all along.
 
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#41
#41
Hacksaw said:
So many fallacies and irrelevancies in your post. And so many that are so familiar. It's the same old mantra that is repeated by the Peyton haters. How could anyone who claims to be a Peyton supporter buy into such nonsense? It really is hard to believe.

Peyton has had a longer career. Montana played 15 seasons and Peyton is in his 16th season. So that gets held against Peyton? Never mind that his AVERAGE career QB stats are better than Montana's in just about every category. Why is it even worth mentioning that Peyton has played longer when it's already been pointed-out that he eclipsed Montana's numbers in fewer seasons than Montana played? Do you not get that? How else can I make it clear? Yes, he has thrown more. He's completed more, too. His career completion % is better than Montana's. His yards/completion % is better. His TD % is better and so is his career QB rating. And since you mentioned INTs, it may surprise you to know that Montana's career INT % was 2.6 -- identical to Peyton's.

Yes, Montana played a shorter career. I say Peyton has played longer because he's bigger, stronger and tougher than Montana. But so are all the players playing at all the other positions in the NFL nowadays, compared to Montana's era. Yeah, when Montana played, the game was so much tougher. That's why it took until now for the NFL to start changing all of the rules about hitting to protect the players. I guess if Peyton had played back then, he would have had even more than just four neck surgeries to overcome. A much easier time -- LOL! I'm old enough to remember Montana's career. Back then they actually called pass interference!

Peyton has never played on a dominant team. No one would say that he's played on the most dominant team of his era -- as Montana did. That distinction goes to Tom Brady. Peyton has never had a great defense that he could rely on. He's always had to take more risks than Montana did. He never had Jerry Rice to throw to. I can post more stats to back this up, but I realize they do get tedious after a while.

Peyton has a "long way to go" to be considered the GOAT? Really?! He's already considered to be among the GOAT by most knowledgeable people right now. How many more NFL QB records does he have to shatter to be in consideration in your mind? I've already dealt with Montana, whose SB rings are really the only thing he's got over Manning -- and it's already been established that those are TEAM achievements, not individual accomplishments. Name any QB you think is more deserving of GOAT and I can make an argument for why Peyton is better that would be very hard to dispute.

It took me a very long time to allow myself to accept Peyton's greatness among the all-time great QBs in NFL history. I was very aware of my own biases as a lifelong Tennessee fan and Peyton supporter. But the numbers don't lie.
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Nice post. I see your points, but some points I politely disagree. Stats can be very misleading. Do we think Murray is the greatest SEC QB of all time because of his stats? Probably not. Why not, because he never won the big game. I think a lot of that applies to Manning. He has won 1 Super Bowl, but he will not be considered the GOAT unless he wins 1 more. Most people will not say Bradshaw is the greatest even though he won 4 Super Bowls. Your points on Montana are what I disagree with mostly. Please take some time and look at the stats of EVERY playoff game he ever played in. Those numbers are set in stone. Arguments about better players are not factually based. Many times the QB makes players around him better. Also, I would say at this point in time Brady is ahead of Manning.
Top QB's of all time:
1) Montana

Super Bowl Statistics
Super Bowls Comp Att Pct Yards TDs INTs Rate Result
XVI 14 22 63.6 157 1 0 100.0 W 26-21
XIX 24 35 68.6 331 3 0 127.2 W 38-16
XXIII 23 36 63.9 357 2 0 115.2 W 20-16
XXIV 22 29 75.9 297 5 0 147.6 W 55-10
Totals 83 122 68.0 1,142 11 0 127.8 W/L Record 4-0

2) Elway (5 Super Bowls)/ Brady
3) Manning/ Favre/ Unitas/ Marino
If Manning can get 1 more Super Bowl, I feel he moves into the 2nd spot alone if Brady stays at 3 Super Bowl wins. If Peyton can get to 3 victories, he has the top spot!!
Championships are 1 piece of the puzzle. When you get down to the GOAT, it plays an even more important role, IMO.
Same goes in the NBA. Bill Russell won 2 NCAA championships at Univ of San Fransisco, then 11 NBA championships. Jordan has 6, but most folks say Jordan is the greatest. Old timers though will usually enter the conversation with the question, "did you ever see Russell play?"
Anyway. I appreciate your opinions and I am sure you can post some valid points against my thoughts. Good stuff.
 
#42
#42
So you obviously believe that Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien are above Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton on the list of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. That is the logical extension of your argument.

I respectfully disagree.

The 49er defenses that held opposing teams to an average of 17 POINTS LESS than the Colts defenses did in their playoff games with Peyton at QB may have had a little something to do with how "cool" and "clutch" Joe was in those games.

Once again, when you cite TEAM accomplishments in order to validate an argument for INDIVIDUAL greatness, you obviously don't have a good argument.
 
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#45
#45
@cbbowlingmd - It was a team win, but Peyton became a game manager. You could have stuck a number of QB's back there the way Peyton was throwing interceptions. Peyton Manning gets all the credit when they win, not the "team" by the way, and when they lose everyone else is to blame.

@utvolpj and @Hacksaw - Last night they had a chance to pretty much seal home field throughout the playoffs. Now Tom Brady and patriots control their own destiny. Do you guys really not see how that game was bigger? Peyton wants no part of going back to New England. The place were he had a 24 - 0 lead and still lost. I'm sure there are excuses for that as well, but that's another story.

He had a chance to play for the 49ers. A team that has a defense and run game for many years. He wanted the money. Peyton signed a 100 million dollar contract to win a Superbowl. Superbowl or bust, no more excuses.
 
#46
#46
Most touchdowns in a season by q.b.: 50 Brady Manning now has 47 t.d.'s this season with 2 more games to play.

Most yardage by a q.b. in a season: 5,451 Breese Manning now has 4,941 passing yards and has 2 more games to play.

Most passing yardage by a q.b. in a career: 71,838 yards Favre Manning now has 64,298. In two more seasons, he should surpass that record. 7,541 more yards in 34 games = 221 yards per game to set the record in two full seasons.

Most passing touchdowns in a career: 508 t.d.'s by Favre Manning currently has 483 t.d.'s. Needs 26 more to break that record. Should pass it late next season.
 
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#47
#47
With Houston and Oakland left, it would be shocking if Peyton doesn't end up holding most of the individual QB records. But it seems unlikely that he will get a second ring. The Broncos D is average at best and tends to play the worst when it matters most. Peyton would have to put up 7 almost every drive to overcome a D that lets good teams march down the field eating clock whenever they get the ball.
 
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#49
#49
LA Vol said:
With Houston and Oakland left, it would be shocking if Peyton doesn't end up holding most of the individual QB records. But it seems unlikely that he will get a second ring. The Broncos D is average at best and tends to play the worst when it matters most. Peyton would have to put up 7 almost every drive to overcome a D that lets good teams march down the field eating clock whenever they get the ball.
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Sadly, I agree with you on your point. Well, I think he may get a 2nd ring, he deserves to, and I'd like him too, but if he doesn't it will be on the Broncos' D.

History can't rewrite itself, but if the Indy organization had discovered that they still needed a defense sooner than 6-8yrs into his tenancy as Colts QB, he would have won >1 in Indy. If the Broncos D had shown up last year, he may have been in the Super Bowl. And it is the D, and inconsistency in the run game that may keep him out of it this year.

Sadder still is the fact that the media is either 1) ADHD, 2) retarded, or 3) giving news to our sad population with an avg. reading level of 9th grade, such that they will make it out like it's his failing. Since he is such a figure in the sport, any game he is in, it is portrayed as if he is the only player in the game for the team he plays for. "Peyton outdueled by...to the playoffs again without a ring...couldn't get a 2nd ring...cold weather...couldn't step up to lead his team again...Tom Brady..." So sick of hearing it. The reason the Pats have 3 with Brady is because they simply had a better team on the whole around him on both sides of the ball.
 
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#50
#50
Rudy123 said:
Most touchdowns in a season by q.b.: 50 Brady Manning now has 47 t.d.'s this season with 2 more games to play.

Most yardage by a q.b. in a season: 5,451 Breese Manning now has 4,941 passing yards and has 2 more games to play.

Most passing yardage by a q.b. in a career: 71,838 yards Favre Manning now has 64,298. In two more seasons, he should surpass that record. 7,541 more yards in 34 games = 221 yards per game to set the record in two full seasons.

Most passing touchdowns in a career: 508 t.d.'s by Favre Manning currently has 483 t.d.'s. Needs 26 more to break that record. Should pass it late next season.
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This may be a silly question. I probably knew the answer at one point, but forgot. Do they count any stats put up in the playoffs towards career #'s?
 
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