Peyton could end owning all NFL QB records - I'm so proud!!!

[HARTUPM]

records are pretty cool and all... but help me out here as my memory fails me.... how many times did he beat Floriduh?

 

[KBVol]

records are pretty cool and all... but help me out here as my memory fails me.... how many times did he beat Floriduh?

0-3
39-3 vs everybody else.
He shouldn't feel bad though. Virtually no UT team/ QB can beat Fla.

 

[HARTUPM]

0-3
39-3 vs everybody else.
He shouldn't feel bad though. Virtually no UT team/ QB can beat Fla.

for some reason I was thinking he was 0-4 against Florida

 

[jkleno]

So you obviously believe that Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien are above Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton on the list of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. That is the logical extension of your argument.

I respectfully disagree.

The 49er defenses that held opposing teams to an average of 17 POINTS LESS than the Colts defenses did in their playoff games with Peyton at QB may have had a little something to do with how "cool" and "clutch" Joe was in those games.

Once again, when you cite TEAM accomplishments in order to validate an argument for INDIVIDUAL greatness, you obviously don't have a good argument.

* In my statement I mentioned that Bradshaw has won 4 Super Bowls, but I don't think he is the best.
* I have also mentioned in other threads other than an old Randy Moss, who has Tom Brady ever had to throw too? Do you think Deon Branch is as good as Harrison or Wayne? Tom Brady has had the WORSE supporting cast offensively around him compared to any of the other great QB's. Yet he repeatedly has beaten Manning.
* If you have watched NFL over the years, the game is completely different offensively. The game is set up to produce higher scoring games, thus QB's numbers are going too be much higher now than they were in Montana's days. *And as far as the older players, much older, they only played 12 game seasons with no wild cards. What are you going to say 25 years from now if the NFL season goes to 18 games and a player breaks Manning's records?

It is a great discussion and if someone mentions GOAT and argues for Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Farve they will come up with good points for any of them.

****Now, who was the greatest boxer of all-time? HA

 

[OrangeMagic]

@cbbowlingmd - It was a team win, but Peyton became a game manager. You could have stuck a number of QB's back there the way Peyton was throwing interceptions. Peyton Manning gets all the credit when they win, not the "team" by the way, and when they lose everyone else is to blame.

@utvolpj and @Hacksaw - Last night they had a chance to pretty much seal home field throughout the playoffs. Now Tom Brady and patriots control their own destiny. Do you guys really not see how that game was bigger? Peyton wants no part of going back to New England. The place were he had a 24 - 0 lead and still lost. I'm sure there are excuses for that as well, but that's another story.

He had a chance to play for the 49ers. A team that has a defense and run game for many years. He wanted the money. Peyton signed a 100 million dollar contract to win a Superbowl. Superbowl or bust, no more excuses.

or what? You going to take him off your fantasy team?
LOL @ you thinking you have any power whatsoever

 

[utvolpj]

@utvolpj and @Hacksaw - Last night they had a chance to pretty much seal home field throughout the playoffs. Now Tom Brady and patriots control their own destiny. Do you guys really not see how that game was bigger? Peyton wants no part of going back to New England. The place were he had a 24 - 0 lead and still lost. I'm sure there are excuses for that as well, but that's another story.

and if the Broncos lost to KC what would last night's game have meant? To some it's a big game only when he loses. Winning big games tends to lead to more big games

He had a chance to play for the 49ers. A team that has a defense and run game for many years. He wanted the money. Peyton signed a 100 million dollar contract to win a Superbowl. Superbowl or bust, no more excuses.

you seriously think it was about only money? :disappointed:

 

[Biopsyman]

Most touchdowns in a season by q.b.: 50 Brady Manning now has 47 t.d.'s this season with 2 more games to play.

Most yardage by a q.b. in a season: 5,451 Breese Manning now has 4,941 passing yards and has 2 more games to play.

Most passing yardage by a q.b. in a career: 71,838 yards Favre Manning now has 64,298. In two more seasons, he should surpass that record. 7,541 more yards in 34 games = 221 yards per game to set the record in two full seasons.

Most passing touchdowns in a career: 508 t.d.'s by Favre Manning currently has 483 t.d.'s. Needs 26 more to break that record. Should pass it late next season.

He should be the record holder for 5 season unless he plays 2 to 3 more after this season. Maybe end up with 550 TD's for a career... Brees is coming on very fast

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

0-3
39-3 vs everybody else.
He shouldn't feel bad though. Virtually no UT team/ QB can beat Fla.

Casey Clausen was 2-1 against Florida. Tee and Ainge also managed to beat the Gators.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

for some reason I was thinking he was 0-4 against Florida

Todd Helton started the 94 game, and gets credit for the loss, even though Peyton did play in that game.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Hacksaw]

records are pretty cool and all... but help me out here as my memory fails me.... how many times did he beat Floriduh?

He beat Bama 3 times. But I guess those weren't big games. He beat an Ohio State team that was LOADED with future NFL all-pros. But clearly that wasn't a big game.

 

[Hacksaw]

* In my statement I mentioned that Bradshaw has won 4 Super Bowls, but I don't think he is the best.
* I have also mentioned in other threads other than an old Randy Moss, who has Tom Brady ever had to throw too? Do you think Deon Branch is as good as Harrison or Wayne? Tom Brady has had the WORSE supporting cast offensively around him compared to any of the other great QB's. Yet he repeatedly has beaten Manning.
* If you have watched NFL over the years, the game is completely different offensively. The game is set up to produce higher scoring games, thus QB's numbers are going too be much higher now than they were in Montana's days. *And as far as the older players, much older, they only played 12 game seasons with no wild cards. What are you going to say 25 years from now if the NFL season goes to 18 games and a player breaks Manning's records?

It is a great discussion and if someone mentions GOAT and argues for Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Farve they will come up with good points for any of them.

****Now, who was the greatest boxer of all-time? HA

As a general rule, I don't think Manning's receivers have been as good as they have been touted. It seems like wherever he goes, he's always surrounded by guys who can catch the ball. Funny, the one common denominator is Manning, himself.

Brady has always had a more balanced offense and good defense and special teams. And he hasn't put up the passing numbers that Manning has, despite the fact that he is obviously a great QB in his own right.

I'd bet Manning would gladly swap receivers with Brady if the defense and special teams were also part of the deal. The Patriots are always well-rounded, disciplined and tough. Whoever is playing receiver is running the right route and is in the right place at the right time. If he's not, then he's not playing for very long. New England is all about discipline and execution. That's why they are contending this season, despite having to rely on a bunch of young and unheralded players. That's why Brady can get hurt and Matt Cassell can come in and the Pats hardly miss a beat.

I agree with you that the game has changed. But I give Peyton a lot of credit for that. He has changed the QB position and the game itself. And that only adds to his greatness and stature IMO.

 

[Remy]

He's got to get that "cold weather" monkey off his back. Last night did not help. Football is a team sport, his defense lost for him his return to the Super Bowl last year. That said, if he can get to and win this year's Super Bowl in the cold, it will kill 2 birds with one stone. I' pulling for Peyton to get it done.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I love Peyton, but he has a LONG, LONG way to go to own the most important record- Super Bowl wins. He needs 4 more to have that record all to himself. You can take all the stats in the world in any sport, but championships are the most valuable. If he can stay healthy, he might have a chance.

That isn't going to happen. He's got probably about 3 more seasons left after this one, so that would mean he'd have to 4-peat.

Yeah...not gonna happen, for any player.

 

[jkleno]

As a general rule, I don't think Manning's receivers have been as good as they have been touted. It seems like wherever he goes, he's always surrounded by guys who can catch the ball. Funny, the one common denominator is Manning, himself.

Brady has always had a more balanced offense and good defense and special teams. And he hasn't put up the passing numbers that Manning has, despite the fact that he is obviously a great QB in his own right.

I'd bet Manning would gladly swap receivers with Brady if the defense and special teams were also part of the deal. The Patriots are always well-rounded, disciplined and tough. Whoever is playing receiver is running the right route and is in the right place at the right time. If he's not, then he's not playing for very long. New England is all about discipline and execution. That's why they are contending this season, despite having to rely on a bunch of young and unheralded players. That's why Brady can get hurt and Matt Cassell can come in and the Pats hardly miss a beat.

I agree with you that the game has changed. But I give Peyton a lot of credit for that. He has changed the QB position and the game itself. And that only adds to his greatness and stature IMO.

The Pats didn't make the playoffs with Cassel, although they were 10-6. You make a good point though.
My biggest factor in determining the GOAT is how they performed against the best. By the best, I mean how they play in the playoffs in the NFL. I am far less concerned with season stats and I really don't put much into a QB throwing 5 TD's and 400 yards versus Jacksonsville in September when determining the GOAT. Those stats are important in MVP voting, etc. But, we are talking about the greatest of all time.
Peyton is <500 in the playoffs. 9 wins versus 11 loses. 4 wins and 9 losses versus Brady.
But the real winner is Montana. 4 Super Bowl wins. 11 TD's to 0 Int's. QB rating of 127.8 on the biggest stage. That is remarkable and places him on the top of the greatest QB's.

 

[Hacksaw]

Again, TEAM accomplishments to validate INDIVIDUAL greatness. Of course the best TEAMS perform well against the best TEAMS. We're not discussing which teams have been the best. That's not the discussion we're having. We're talking about the best quarterback. You keep talking about team accomplishments. It just makes no sense.

And the Pats were actually 11-5 the year Cassel started in place of the injured Brady. The next season, with Brady back as the starter, they actually won FEWER games (10-6). That's why everyone thought Cassel would be a star starting for another team. And we all know how that turned out. It was the TEAM, not the INDIVIDUAL playing QB.

Of course, we all also recall what happened to the Colts when Peyton missed a season. And what Peyton has done so far with the Broncos. Trust me when I say that Tom Brady isn't ever going to voluntarily leave New England.

 

[EaglesVols91]

He's got to get that "cold weather" monkey off his back. Last night did not help. Football is a team sport, his defense lost for him his return to the Super Bowl last year. That said, if he can get to and win this year's Super Bowl in the cold, it will kill 2 birds with one stone. I' pulling for Peyton to get it done.

Yesterday was 40 degree weather...the week before where he went up against Tennessee, he threw 4 TDs and 59 times in under 10 degree weather...

 

[Orange Bison]

Manning never had Bill Belichick as his head coach. Guy loses his coordinators every year it seems and never misses a beat. NE was better defensively and on special teams than the Manning led Colts. Manning had to do much more offensively than Brady IMO to keep his team in the game. It's no coincidence that Mannings receivers put up gaudy numbers in Indy & Denver. No doubt Brady is extremely clutch but take away a stupid tuck rule fumble & he never even gets to his first super bowl. Put Manning with Belichick and I bet those super bowl titles are reversed.

 

[cd12]

Somebody round here used to call PM Captain Stats. As far as him coaching..what if we had to fire the guy?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So many fallacies and irrelevancies in your post. And so many that are so familiar. It's the same old mantra that is repeated by the Peyton haters. How could anyone who claims to be a Peyton supporter buy into such nonsense? It really is hard to believe.

Peyton has had a longer career. Montana played 15 seasons and Peyton is in his 16th season. So that gets held against Peyton? Never mind that his AVERAGE career QB stats are better than Montana's in just about every category. Why is it even worth mentioning that Peyton has played longer when it's already been pointed-out that he eclipsed Montana's numbers in fewer seasons than Montana played? Do you not get that? How else can I make it clear? Yes, he has thrown more. He's completed more, too. His career completion % is better than Montana's. His yards/completion % is better. His TD % is better and so is his career QB rating. And since you mentioned INTs, it may surprise you to know that Montana's career INT % was 2.6 -- identical to Peyton's.

Yes, Montana played a shorter career. I say Peyton has played longer because he's bigger, stronger and tougher than Montana. But so are all the players playing at all the other positions in the NFL nowadays, compared to Montana's era. Yeah, when Montana played, the game was so much tougher. That's why it took until now for the NFL to start changing all of the rules about hitting to protect the players. I guess if Peyton had played back then, he would have had even more than just four neck surgeries to overcome. A much easier time -- LOL! I'm old enough to remember Montana's career. Back then they actually called pass interference!

Peyton has never played on a dominant team. No one would say that he's played on the most dominant team of his era -- as Montana did. That distinction goes to Tom Brady. Peyton has never had a great defense that he could rely on. He's always had to take more risks than Montana did. He never had Jerry Rice to throw to. I can post more stats to back this up, but I realize they do get tedious after a while.

Peyton has a "long way to go" to be considered the GOAT? Really?! He's already considered to be among the GOAT by most knowledgeable people right now. How many more NFL QB records does he have to shatter to be in consideration in your mind? I've already dealt with Montana, whose SB rings are really the only thing he's got over Manning -- and it's already been established that those are TEAM achievements, not individual accomplishments. Name any QB you think is more deserving of GOAT and I can make an argument for why Peyton is better that would be very hard to dispute.

It took me a very long time to allow myself to accept Peyton's greatness among the all-time great QBs in NFL history. I was very aware of my own biases as a lifelong Tennessee fan and Peyton supporter. But the numbers don't lie.

So I cannot be a Montana and Peyton fan? Stupid logic. Montana actually played 16 seasons. 2 of those years were cut short by strikes (82,87), he missed 1986, 1991 and 1992 due to injuries. So he really played about 12 years total. Thats not Peytons fault its just a fact. A longer career is going to equal better stats, especially when your as good as Peyton is.

If you really don't think the eras in which Montana and Peyton played n are vastly different and had huge impacts on stats and overall playing then you're blind. Joe Montana is widely considered the GOAT. This has been said by multiple experts throughout the years. But whatever you say.

The players today are tougher than when Montana played??? Are you serious?? That is a complete joke and the fact that you said that shows ignorance. As I have said the rules vastly favor the offense, and have for awhile. So I see you are fixated on stats as proof of greatness right? Ok the Brett Favre is the GOAT then. He owns most of the passing records so that means he is the GOAT.

Also I see you bring up dominant teams. I also see that you said New England was the most dominant team. They may have been but they did it with less talent than Peyton has had his whole career. Other than a couple of years, when has Brady ever had anything close to Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark and Stokely?

So wait Super Bowl rings are TEAM achievements but regular season games are not? Yeah right. So I guess the accomplishments Montana has are all because of his team and Peytons accomplishments are all because of him? Totally laughable. Manning had hall of fame WR Marvin Harrison for most of his career and then in 2001 gained another HOF WR in Reggie Wayne. But I guess they had nothing to do with his stats. lol:

How is greatness measured? Is it what is done in the regular season? No. Greatness is measured about what is done in the post season. The fact is Peyton has a terrible playoff record. I hate it but its a fact. Would Michael Jordan be considered the GOAT if he didn't go 6-0 in championships with 6 finals MVP's even with his great regular season stats? No way. So sorry regardless if you want to ignore the facts they speak for themselves.

Like I said I love Peyton Manning. He is my favorite UT player and second favorite player ever. That doesn't mean I have to consider him the best when I don't think he is. Sorry but I cannot get past the post season records. No stat or argument you can make will be able to match that Montana went 4-0 in the Super Bowls with 3 MVP's , zero interceptions (I guess throwing no picks is just because of his team as well), most TD passes (11), highest QB rating (127.8), second highest completion % (68.0). These are all stats in SUPER BOWLS. But I guess those stats are all because of his team and had nothing to do with Montana. If thats the case then Manning's stats were because of his very powerful offensive weapons he has had his whole career.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Again, TEAM accomplishments to validate INDIVIDUAL greatness. Of course the best TEAMS perform well against the best TEAMS. We're not discussing which teams have been the best. That's not the discussion we're having. We're talking about the best quarterback. You keep talking about team accomplishments. It just makes no sense.

And the Pats were actually 11-5 the year Cassel started in place of the injured Brady. The next season, with Brady back as the starter, they actually won FEWER games (10-6). That's why everyone thought Cassel would be a star starting for another team. And we all know how that turned out. It was the TEAM, not the INDIVIDUAL playing QB.

Of course, we all also recall what happened to the Colts when Peyton missed a season. And what Peyton has done so far with the Broncos. Trust me when I say that Tom Brady isn't ever going to voluntarily leave New England.

So all of Indy's wins throughout the years had nothing to do with the team and everything to do with Peyton? Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Tamme, Stokely, Collie, Garcon, James, Addai, Brown, Sanders, Vanderjack, Vinatieri, Sanders, June, Freeney, Mathis, Rhodes, Harper, Bethea, Brock, Brackett, Utecht, McFarland, Saturday, Glenn, Scott and Diem had nothing to do with it?

Also I failed to mention that Peyton has played on some of the greatest offensive lines in the past 10 years or so. He is the second least sacked QB in history and the least sacked of all active QB's only being sacked 3.10% of the time. I guess its because he moves so well.

 

[VFL1953]

* In my statement I mentioned that Bradshaw has won 4 Super Bowls, but I don't think he is the best.
* I have also mentioned in other threads other than an old Randy Moss, who has Tom Brady ever had to throw too? Do you think Deon Branch is as good as Harrison or Wayne? Tom Brady has had the WORSE supporting cast offensively around him compared to any of the other great QB's. Yet he repeatedly has beaten Manning.
* If you have watched NFL over the years, the game is completely different offensively. The game is set up to produce higher scoring games, thus QB's numbers are going too be much higher now than they were in Montana's days. *And as far as the older players, much older, they only played 12 game seasons with no wild cards. What are you going to say 25 years from now if the NFL season goes to 18 games and a player breaks Manning's records?

It is a great discussion and if someone mentions GOAT and argues for Manning, Brady, Montana, Elway, Unitas, Farve they will come up with good points for any of them.

****Now, who was the greatest boxer of all-time? HA

Ok, I'll bite . Brady had, as you put it yourself, a "genius head coach". Now Tony Dungy's a nice man and I respect him, but genius? Hardly. Peyton CARRIED that offensive coaching staff, something Brady has never had to do.And receivers? Watch how well Brady does the next 3 games without Gronkowski (hopefully better than I expect, as Vereen is on my fantasy squad, lol).

Oh, and Muhammad Ali, hands down :bow2:

 

[VFL1953]

Also I failed to mention that Peyton has played on some of the greatest offensive lines in the past 10 years or so. He is the second least sacked QB in history and the least sacked of all active QB's only being sacked 3.10% of the time. I guess its because he moves so well.

Reading a defense like a junior high text book and getting the ball out of his hand quickly may have had something to do with the sack rate. Watch Cam Newton sometime. Takes him a week to spot an open receiver, and forget about throwing someone open. If he couldn't run well he'd be crippled by now.

 

[Hacksaw]

So I cannot be a Montana and Peyton fan? Stupid logic. Montana actually played 16 seasons. 2 of those years were cut short by strikes (82,87), he missed 1986, 1991 and 1992 due to injuries. So he really played about 12 years total. Thats not Peytons fault its just a fact. A longer career is going to equal better stats, especially when your as good as Peyton is.

If you really don't think the eras in which Montana and Peyton played n are vastly different and had huge impacts on stats and overall playing then you're blind. Joe Montana is widely considered the GOAT. This has been said by multiple experts throughout the years. But whatever you say.

The players today are tougher than when Montana played??? Are you serious?? That is a complete joke and the fact that you said that shows ignorance. As I have said the rules vastly favor the offense, and have for awhile. So I see you are fixated on stats as proof of greatness right? Ok the Brett Favre is the GOAT then. He owns most of the passing records so that means he is the GOAT.

Also I see you bring up dominant teams. I also see that you said New England was the most dominant team. They may have been but they did it with less talent than Peyton has had his whole career. Other than a couple of years, when has Brady ever had anything close to Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark and Stokely?

So wait Super Bowl rings are TEAM achievements but regular season games are not? Yeah right. So I guess the accomplishments Montana has are all because of his team and Peytons accomplishments are all because of him? Totally laughable. Manning had hall of fame WR Marvin Harrison for most of his career and then in 2001 gained another HOF WR in Reggie Wayne. But I guess they had nothing to do with his stats. lol:

How is greatness measured? Is it what is done in the regular season? No. Greatness is measured about what is done in the post season. The fact is Peyton has a terrible playoff record. I hate it but its a fact. Would Michael Jordan be considered the GOAT if he didn't go 6-0 in championships with 6 finals MVP's even with his great regular season stats? No way. So sorry regardless if you want to ignore the facts they speak for themselves.

Like I said I love Peyton Manning. He is my favorite UT player and second favorite player ever. That doesn't mean I have to consider him the best when I don't think he is. Sorry but I cannot get past the post season records. No stat or argument you can make will be able to match that Montana went 4-0 in the Super Bowls with 3 MVP's , zero interceptions (I guess throwing no picks is just because of his team as well), most TD passes (11), highest QB rating (127.8), second highest completion % (68.0). These are all stats in SUPER BOWLS. But I guess those stats are all because of his team and had nothing to do with Montana. If thats the case then Manning's stats were because of his very powerful offensive weapons he has had his whole career.

I hear what you're saying. But I still can't get past the fact that your argument is based on a foundation that must also assert that Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien are greater QBs than Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton. That's a pretty weak foundation.

And I already conceded that Peyton has played more games than Montana and then posted the per/game stats that showed that Peyton is still statistically superior to Joe. I could maybe draw a picture or something?

 

[Hacksaw]

So all of Indy's wins throughout the years had nothing to do with the team and everything to do with Peyton? Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Tamme, Stokely, Collie, Garcon, James, Addai, Brown, Sanders, Vanderjack, Vinatieri, Sanders, June, Freeney, Mathis, Rhodes, Harper, Bethea, Brock, Brackett, Utecht, McFarland, Saturday, Glenn, Scott and Diem had nothing to do with it?

Also I failed to mention that Peyton has played on some of the greatest offensive lines in the past 10 years or so. He is the second least sacked QB in history and the least sacked of all active QB's only being sacked 3.10% of the time. I guess its because he moves so well.

Post all of those guys' stats when they played with Peyton and then when they played elsewhere with another QB. I predict that you will start to see a distinct pattern emerge.

 

[Hacksaw]

Reading a defense like a junior high text book and getting the ball out of his hand quickly may have had something to do with the sack rate. Watch Cam Newton sometime. Takes him a week to spot an open receiver, and forget about throwing someone open. If he couldn't run well he'd be crippled by now.

Oh, no! It's because he played with the greatest OL ever to play the game, didn't you know that?

Honestly, it astounds me to see how people contort themselves trying to rationalize away Peyton's accomplishments. But oh, they're big fans of his! LOL!