Peyton Manning

#51
#51
douglas67 said:
1996 Peyton threw 4 INT's against Florida, all in the first half I believe, we almost came back and won that game.

1997 Peyton threw 2 INT's which virtually put us out of that game. Not to mention that colossal goat ****ing we took in the Orange Bowl in 97.
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I was there. Peyton's performance in that first half was absolutely abysmal.
 
#53
#53
douglas67 said:
EVERYTHING!! To me, you can have stats like Bradshaw, But 4 rings is where it is at. Stats like Aikmen, 3 rings, Stats Like Starr, 2 rings. You can be the greatest ever, but you better have the rings to back it up.
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Did Aikmen throw, catch, rush, play CB, make the big picks, kick the big field goals? Did Tom Brady sit in the GMs office choosing what 3rd round linebacker they'd draft?

There are 22 men on that field. Want a better example? Look at the Patriots when Tom Brady got hurt for a year. 11-5. Look at the Colts when Peyton got hurt for a year....
 
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#55
#55
douglas67 said:
Use the whole quote Man.....It's not how many you throw, it's when throw them. I later said Eli is better in clutch sitiuations. Peyton threw 6 int's against Florida in 96-97, all 6 int's lost us the game. He really didnt play well against Nebraska either.
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I was responding to your first statement "Peyton was good, but man, did he ever turn the ball over alot." That simply isn't true.

You then said "Especially against Florida". That part IS true, which is why I didn't contest that part of your statement. However, you make it sound as if he just threw picks straight into the arms of UF defenders. Go back and watch the games. Some were his fault, no doubt. Others were just as positively not his fault. That being said, he did turn it over a lot against Florida, and I did not dispute that part of your quote.

He didn't play well against Nebraska, no. He was playing on a bum knee. Had infected bursa sacs the entire month leading up to the game. His status was in doubt for a time as well.
 
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#56
#56
douglas67 said:
EVERYTHING!! To me, you can have stats like Bradshaw, But 4 rings is where it is at. Stats like Aikmen, 3 rings, Stats Like Starr, 2 rings. You can be the greatest ever, but you better have the rings to back it up.
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Team accomplishments shouldn't be used to gauge an invididual's place in history, especially in football, where players are only on the field for half of the game. That is why there will never be a consenus G.O.A.T.
 
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#57
#57
Wii60 said:
Did Aikmen throw, catch, rush, play CB, make the big picks, kick the big field goals? Did Tom Brady sit in the GMs office choosing what 3rd round linebacker they'd draft?

There are 22 men on that field. Want a better example? Look at the Patriots when Tom Brady got hurt for a year. 11-5. Look at the Colts when Peyton got hurt for a year....
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Agreed. The Colts were horrible last year. Most of Peyton's career the Colt's had no back-up plan if something happened to Manning. But how would you explain the Colt's this year? I mean 8 wins, might make the playoffs?
 
#59
#59
douglas67 said:
Agreed. The Colts were horrible last year. Most of Peyton's career the Colt's had no back-up plan if something happened to Manning. But how would you explain the Colt's this year? I mean 8 wins, might make the playoffs?
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Andrew Luck is a good QB, but they also changed staffs, and picked up a ton of depth by dealing out guys like Tamme, Garcon and Saturday.
 
#60
#60
Wii60 said:
I think you're right, that's where it started.

There's probably also more merit to the concept in basketball too. At least in college, one guy can just absolutely blow everyone else up.
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No doubt. In basketball, any player can affect the game at any time, offense or defense.
 
#61
#61
ChattanoogaVols said:
Team accomplishments shouldn't be used to gauge an invididual's place in history, especially in football, where players are only on the field for half of the game. That is why there will never be a consenus G.O.A.T.
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That's fair!! There is never a G.O.A.T. ever. So as far as individual stats, we should just throw them out, because, essentially they mean nothing? Because without the team, you dont get those stats on your own, Right? So, you are remembered for what your team did....Peyton has won 1 Super Bowl....Average at best. End of discussion.
 
#62
#62
douglas67 said:
That's fair!! There is never a G.O.A.T. ever. So as far as individual stats, we should just throw them out, because, essentially they mean nothing? Because without the team, you dont get those stats on your own, Right? So, you are remembered for what your team did....Peyton has won 1 Super Bowl....Average at best. End of discussion.
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Dan Marino won 0, is he remembered as average at best?
 
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#63
#63
NoCompetition2 said:
You can thank MJ.
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Actually, you can thank Russell, He had 11 of them out of 13 years playing.

Anybody worth there weight will tell you stats mean nothing. I couldnt tell you Montana's stats, he had 4 rings. Couldnt tell you Aikmen's, he had 3 rings, couldnt tell you Marino's stats, he had 0 rings.


If a QB wins we are always reminded of the team around him. Where a QB that has great stats, it as if the team did nothing to help him get those stats? So im really confused here. The QB's with the greatest numbers....Moon, Marino, Favre, Manning have the fewest rings......the guys with so-so numbers....Montana, Bradshaw, Aikmen, Brady have the most.........


Bottom line, If A) throws for 70,000 yards and wins 1 SB or,
B) throws for 32,000 yds and wins 4 SB....think im going with B.
 
#64
#64
douglas67 said:
Actually, you can thank Russell, He had 11 of them out of 13 years playing.

Anybody worth there weight will tell you stats mean nothing.
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Anybody worth THEIR weight will never go to one extreme or the other. In other words, no rational person would ever say "stats mean everything", nor would they say "stats mean nothing". The same holds true for rings. They don't mean everything, but they certainly mean something.

To say that stats mean nothing is just silly.
 
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#65
#65
douglas67 said:
Actually, you can thank Russell, He had 11 of them out of 13 years playing.

Anybody worth there weight will tell you stats mean nothing. I couldnt tell you Montana's stats, he had 4 rings. Couldnt tell you Aikmen's, he had 3 rings, couldnt tell you Marino's stats, he had 0 rings.


If a QB wins we are always reminded of the team around him. Where a QB that has great stats, it as if the team did nothing to help him get those stats? So im really confused here. The QB's with the greatest numbers....Moon, Marino, Favre, Manning have the fewest rings......the guys with so-so numbers....Montana, Bradshaw, Aikmen, Brady have the most.........


Bottom line, If A) throws for 70,000 yards and wins 1 SB or,
B) throws for 32,000 yds and wins 4 SB....think im going with B.
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You're still ignoring the concept of team.

Mediocre QB on great team=Playoff success (Eli Manning, Trent Dilfer, etc)

Great QB on mediocre team= hit or miss in the playoffs (Manning, Marino etc.)

Great QB on great team=Multiple SBs (Brady, Young, Montana, Aikmen)
 
#66
#66
ChattanoogaVols said:
Anybody worth THEIR weight will never go to one extreme or the other. In other words, no rational person would ever say "stats mean everything", nor would they say "stats mean nothing". The same holds true for rings. They don't mean everything, but they certainly mean something.

To say that stats mean nothing is just silly.
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This.

A ring means you can get it done in the big game if you're lucky enough to get there.
 
#67
#67
To expand on this-

Trent Dilfer has a ring. Good QB? Yeah, he was winning games, but is he Marino? Of course not.
 
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#68
#68
Here is what I got:

1 Favre-71,838 yards 1 super bowl win
2 Marino-61361 yards 0 super bowls
3 Manning-58330 yards and counting, 1 super bowl
4 Elway-51475 yards 2 super bowl wins
5 Moon-49325 yards 0 super bowls

Those are the top 5 qb's throwing yards. Total Yards 292,329.....4 Super Bowls.

10 Brady-43516 yards and counting 3 Super Bowls
13 Montana 40551 and 4 Super Bowls
25 Steve Young-33124 yards 2 Super Bowls
27 Aikmen-32942 and 3 Super Bowls
49 Bradshaw-27989 yards and 4 Super Bowls

Total Yards 178,122 and 16 Super Bowl's


Now we know, Manning and Favre have played on some great teams. We also know that they threw some key Int's to lose games.....Notably against the Saints, Patriots and Giants.

I dont know.....from this list Elway and Brady seem to have done the best.

Is it really silly to think that stats have nothing to do with it?
 
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#69
#69
Wii60 said:
To expand on this-

Trent Dilfer has a ring. Good QB? Yeah, he was winning games, but is he Marino? Of course not.
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Better yet, is he Peyton Manning? Not by a long shot!! But they have one thing in common, they are Super Bowl winning QB's.

Stats really don't mean a whole lot. It is about your team!!
 
#70
#70
Take the best player you can think of, at any position, and put them on a crappy team and you've got a somewhat less crappy team.

You go ask anybody that knows anything how badass Lee Roy Selmon was. Those Buccaneer teams still sucked.
 
#71
#71
douglas67 said:
Actually, you can thank Russell, He had 11 of them out of 13 years playing.
.
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This is not the time or place but I will stick with MJ. I think if his team was playing in that era he would have been 13 for 13. That a discussion for another thread though.
 
#72
#72
almirUT said:
Football is a team sport, yes, 1 player can make a difference but overall it's a collective effort. If Peyton had the Giants D while he was in Indy, he probably would of won 5 SB
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If Peyton was drafted into the same situation as Tom Brady with the Pats he'd have at least 5 by now.
 
#73
#73
Here is your honest reply. Manning beat the pants off of everyone, but Florida. Why? Because Florida was pretty darn good. Manning had some of his best games against Florida. But, Spurrier realized he couldn't stop Manning. So, he pressured him, relentlessly, and took away the deep ball. Plus, Florida absolutely STONED UT's running game, taking away play action. Add to that, Danny W had his way with the UT defense. Whatever COULD GO WRONG, DID GO WRONG, for UT.

Remember, Manning did beat UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ark, LSU and SC mercilessly. It wasn't even fair.

Why did the 98' team fair better. Awesome defense. Committed running game. Awesome O'line. Awesome back, wr's. A QB that didn't make mistakes, and lose games. Then, Tee got better every week. By the SC game, Tee was on fire.

A team sold on a winning theory. A team that simply would not lose. A team led by AL WILSON.

That team could run the ball for positive yardage, no matter how many defenders you put in the box. They imposed their will on opponents.

On defense, they were huge, up the middle, fast on the corners, and absolutely ferociuos at LB. KILLERS!! Add that the safeties were athletic and big time robbers.

There was no weakness on that team. Literally.

In essence, Alabama was, and is, nearly an exact copy of that team. IMHO
 
#74
#74
jakez4ut said:
Peyton was great. Except against florida. Played tight and turned the ball over too much. I was spoiled. I was at ut from 94-97....we just showed up knowing we were going to win 10 every year...this decade not so nice to you youngsters.....
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it was probably peytons fault that florida scored 30+ in all of those games and fulmer was scared to death of spurrior. peyton also has the single game record for yards passing against florida for a UT qb with like 437. give me a break. i guess it was his fault in the super bowl that the colts got 0 stops in the 2nd half.
 
#75
#75
zreeves said:
it was probably peytons fault that florida scored 30+ in all of those games and fulmer was scared to death of spurrior. peyton also has the single game record for yards passing against florida for a UT qb with like 437. give me a break. i guess it was his fault in the super bowl that the colts got 0 stops in the 2nd half.
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The 96 Florida game Peyton threw 4 INT's in the first half!! Thats one reason Florida scored over 30. Peyton was passing the whole second half of that game, Hence the passing record.

Second half of the Super Bowl...I do remember an INT he threw, that was ran back for a TD.

Bottom line.....Peyton=great stats.....he wins a lot, but not when it counts.

ELI>Peyton
 
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