Point of no return for Coach Fulmer.

#26
#26
This is all making me sick to my stomach, the fact we even have to have this conversation. The program certainly appears to be walking a fine line between returning to respectibility and falling into an extended period of mediocrity.

I do hold out some hope for a positive outcome... things can change very quickly. Only 1.5 years ago, we were on top of the world having just landed (arguably) the nation's top recruiting class, hammering a name opponent in our bowl game, and being an early pick by some to seriously compete for the NC.

Fact is, we still have pretty good talent, at least if you believe the recruiting experts, and a coaching staff that has won us a National Title and a couple of SEC Championships.

A bad season combined with lackluster recruiting effort and less than stellar first fall scrimmage has us squirming. I'm not making any predictions, but just hoping that the past year is a blip rather than the start of a downward trend.

We'll know in about 2 months, after we've played Cal, FL, GA and AL.
 
#29
#29
BillDuffRules said:
A bowl would be better than last season. Our problem is recruiting. Back when we had kids like Al Wilson that cared about the program we did well. These California kids care about themselves and getting to the NFL. We have had poor leadership on the field. There is only so much a coach can do. Expect Ainge to bounce back but do not expect a trip to the ATL unless it is on Dec 30.
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we've always recruited nationally, and it's never been a problem before...i too have wondered if that has ever had any real affect on us by not having more in state folks that "cared". that may have been true 10 years, 20 years ago....but in today's age, i think this matters less and less...the top prospects, no matter where they are from, are more and more looking to go to programs that give them the best opportunity to do something with their football skills. Whether it be offensive scheme, whatever, that is increasingly important.

our biggest problem the last 4 years or so is developing that talent. what their motivation is at this point, doesn't matter....there are very few top prospects that are interested in "giving their all for (fill in the blank)" anymore.
 
#30
#30
jakez4ut said:
we've always recruited nationally, and it's never been a problem before...i too have wondered if that has ever had any real affect on us by not having more in state folks that "cared". that may have been true 10 years, 20 years ago....but in today's age, i think this matters less and less...the top prospects, no matter where they are from, are more and more looking to go to programs that give them the best opportunity to do something with their football skills. Whether it be offensive scheme, whatever, that is increasingly important.

our biggest problem the last 4 years or so is developing that talent. what their motivation is at this point, doesn't matter....there are very few top prospects that are interested in "giving their all for (fill in the blank)" anymore.
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Sad commentary on the direction college athletics are heading.
 
#31
#31
Vol 4 Life said:
Sad commentary on the direction college athletics are heading.
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Why? Do you think the students in the engineering department are studying hard for the glory of Ol' UT? Athletes are no different. They're looking out for their futures. I've got no problem with that.
 
#32
#32
OWB said:
I'm sure Florida fans thought the same thing when Spurrier left..
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The difference is that Spurrier went out on top.

There is a legitmate debate to be had right now as to whether the last couple of seasons, and in particular last season, are the beginning of the end for Fulmer, i.e. a trend of mediocrity. Or whether the program is just suffering a mix of bad luck, some bad choices, etc., and will rebound.
 
#33
#33
lawgator1 said:
The difference is that Spurrier went out on top.

There is a legitmate debate to be had right now as to whether the last couple of seasons, and in particular last season, are the beginning of the end for Fulmer, i.e. a trend of mediocrity. Or whether the program is just suffering a mix of bad luck, some bad choices, etc., and will rebound.
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Spurrier went out on top of what? Losing his last home game for the chance at an SEC title? How is that on top?
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
The difference is that Spurrier went out on top.

There is a legitmate debate to be had right now as to whether the last couple of seasons, and in particular last season, are the beginning of the end for Fulmer, i.e. a trend of mediocrity. Or whether the program is just suffering a mix of bad luck, some bad choices, etc., and will rebound.
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Except for that last UT game :neener2:
 
#35
#35
Vol 4 Life said:
Sad commentary on the direction college athletics are heading.
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it's only sad because we haven't, lately anyway, been able to get that talent we lived off of in the 90's to get to close to the same levels we became accustomed to.

think about it...o/t than Al Wilson, how many other TN guys have "made it" at UT?

Peyton...Louisiana
Tee...alabama
Heath...North Carolina
Parys....South Carolina
and this list could go on and on of out of state kids that "gave their all for UT" so to speak...and no one was complaining that these kids aren't in state so why are wasting our time? so why should we now?
 
#36
#36
hatvol96 said:
Why? Do you think the students in the engineering department are studying hard for the glory of Ol' UT? Athletes are no different. They're looking out for their futures. I've got no problem with that.
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I don't blame people for looking out for their future, but this is one more example of "for the love of the game" being passed by in favor of the bling bling.

Its sad for the thousands of VOL fans who eat, breathe and sleep Tennessee football, love the University, and love the state, and would give all they could to see the VOLS back on top. We pour our heart and soul into supporting the program and get kids playing that don't give a damn about the T on their helmet, don't care about the history of the checkerboard, General Neyland, etc. etc. That is a shame. I would agree its partially the fans fault for becoming so wrapped up in it; but at the same time sports wouldn't exist without the fans - so it would be nice if more of the younger generation of athletes cared more for the game, without which, many would have no future whatsoever.
 
#37
#37
Vol 4 Life said:
This is all making me sick to my stomach, the fact we even have to have this conversation. The program certainly appears to be walking a fine line between returning to respectibility and falling into an extended period of mediocrity.

I do hold out some hope for a positive outcome... things can change very quickly. Only 1.5 years ago, we were on top of the world having just landed (arguably) the nation's top recruiting class, hammering a name opponent in our bowl game, and being an early pick by some to seriously compete for the NC.

Fact is, we still have pretty good talent, at least if you believe the recruiting experts, and a coaching staff that has won us a National Title and a couple of SEC Championships.

A bad season combined with lackluster recruiting effort and less than stellar first fall scrimmage has us squirming. I'm not making any predictions, but just hoping that the past year is a blip rather than the start of a downward trend.

We'll know in about 2 months, after we've played Cal, FL, GA and AL.
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Well that's the thing isn't it? here's how i have to look at it otherwise i'll driver myself crazy...

Losing sucks. period. But one thing i try to do is determine are did we LOSE or did we GET BEAT? there is a difference. Losing is what we did last year. in the UF, Vandy, Bama, and USC games last season, we were in a position to win at some point or another in each. We didn't necessarily get beat by those teams just being flat out better than us, we lost those games because of stupid things we did during those games...poor special teams, penalties, turnovers, some forced, some not, dropped balls, over throws etc, etc, etc....bottom line was we made too many mistakes to win those games. In each one of those, i felt we left W's on the feild because of our own ineptness on offense or ST.

I can deal with getting beat. If a team is just better than us and they beat us, fine. but finding ways to lose games is what i can't stomach.

but at the end of the day, those things listed above are the difference between winners and losers, and we proved that last year.
 
#38
#38
jakez4ut said:
Well that's the thing isn't it? here's how i have to look at it otherwise i'll driver myself crazy...

Losing sucks. period. But one thing i try to do is determine are did we LOSE or did we GET BEAT? there is a difference. Losing is what we did last year. in the UF, Vandy, Bama, and USC games last season, we were in a position to win at some point or another in each. We didn't necessarily get beat by those teams just being flat out better than us, we lost those games because of stupid things we did during those games...poor special teams, penalties, turnovers, some forced, some not, dropped balls, over throws etc, etc, etc....bottom line was we made too many mistakes to win those games. In each one of those, i felt we left W's on the feild because of our own ineptness on offense or ST.

I can deal with getting beat. If a team is just better than us and they beat us, fine. but finding ways to lose games is what i can't stomach.

but at the end of the day, those things listed above are the difference between winners and losers, and we proved that last year.
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"You are what your record says you are."
 
#39
#39
Hey who knows maybe Ainge and Cut is putting up a big smoke screen and we are all worried for nothing. Maybe they want Cal coming in cocky and overconfident and maybe JUST MAYBE Ainge will throw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns. We will go on to win the SEC. Ainge will have 2500 yards and 25 TD's by seasons end and we will end up getting a top ten recruiting class and then we will make a NC run in 07. Fulmer will retire and come out with his on BBQ sauce and buy a summer home in Tuscaloosa. Randy Sanders will be named new HC at TN and in 08 Rich Brooks will win it all in Lexington.





MAYBE
 
#40
#40
Vol 4 Life said:
I don't blame people for looking out for their future, but this is one more example of "for the love of the game" being passed by in favor of the bling bling.

Its sad for the thousands of VOL fans who eat, breathe and sleep Tennessee football, love the University, and love the state, and would give all they could to see the VOLS back on top. We pour our heart and soul into supporting the program and get kids playing that don't give a damn about the T on their helmet, don't care about the history of the checkerboard, General Neyland, etc. etc. That is a shame. I would agree its partially the fans fault for becoming so wrapped up in it; but at the same time sports wouldn't exist without the fans - so it would be nice if more of the younger generation of athletes cared more for the game, without which, many would have no future whatsoever.
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I think they care plenty, just not in the way you or i would like in a utopian college football world. the care in the sense that they know they must get the most out of their cfb experience at whatever institution they choose in order to make to the next level, if they have that kind of talent. And trust me, there's not one of those highly touted HS kids out there that doesn't think he's capable of making to the NFL. College has a way of sorting those who can from those who can't.

So it is in their best interest to "give their all" for the team they play for so they can realize thier larger goal. the ones that understand that, are the ones we usually love.
 
#41
#41
hatvol96 said:
"You are what your record says you are."
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i agree...but there is a difference between losing and getting beat...

i.e. ND/USC last year...no one walked out of ND stadium last year thinking ND sucked out loud. they got more out of that loss than they did any single win all year long.
 
#44
#44
i think you have to distinguish between what is unacceptable and what will get Fulmer fired. I don't think Fulmer gets fired unless he 5-6 or worse, and I'm not completely sure that does. 8-5 may be unacceptable but will it get Fulmer fired? IMO no.
 
#45
#45
oklavol said:
i think you have to distinguish between what is unacceptable and what will get Fulmer fired. I don't think Fulmer gets fired unless he 5-6 or worse, and I'm not completely sure that does. 8-5 may be unacceptable but will it get Fulmer fired? IMO no.
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i agree...
 
#46
#46
jakez4ut said:
Well that's the thing isn't it? here's how i have to look at it otherwise i'll driver myself crazy...

Losing sucks. period. But one thing i try to do is determine are did we LOSE or did we GET BEAT? there is a difference. Losing is what we did last year. in the UF, Vandy, Bama, and USC games last season, we were in a position to win at some point or another in each. We didn't necessarily get beat by those teams just being flat out better than us, we lost those games because of stupid things we did during those games...poor special teams, penalties, turnovers, some forced, some not, dropped balls, over throws etc, etc, etc....bottom line was we made too many mistakes to win those games. In each one of those, i felt we left W's on the feild because of our own ineptness on offense or ST.

I can deal with getting beat. If a team is just better than us and they beat us, fine. but finding ways to lose games is what i can't stomach.

but at the end of the day, those things listed above are the difference between winners and losers, and we proved that last year.
Click to expand...

I agree, and it provides a case for optimism - if we can correct the stupid mistakes we should see marked improvment in the W-L column. Easier to correct stupid mistakes then overhaul a program.
 
#47
#47
jakez4ut said:
Well that's the thing isn't it? here's how i have to look at it otherwise i'll driver myself crazy...

Losing sucks. period. But one thing i try to do is determine are did we LOSE or did we GET BEAT? there is a difference. Losing is what we did last year. in the UF, Vandy, Bama, and USC games last season, we were in a position to win at some point or another in each. We didn't necessarily get beat by those teams just being flat out better than us, we lost those games because of stupid things we did during those games...poor special teams, penalties, turnovers, some forced, some not, dropped balls, over throws etc, etc, etc....bottom line was we made too many mistakes to win those games. In each one of those, i felt we left W's on the feild because of our own ineptness on offense or ST.

I can deal with getting beat. If a team is just better than us and they beat us, fine. but finding ways to lose games is what i can't stomach.

but at the end of the day, those things listed above are the difference between winners and losers, and we proved that last year.
Click to expand...
Yeah and our wins were pretty ugly too!
 
#48
#48
Vol 4 Life said:
I agree, and it provides a case for optimism - if we can correct the stupid mistakes we should see marked improvment in the W-L column. Easier to correct stupid mistakes then overhaul a program.
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one would think anyway...but again, w/l record is one thing, really being back is another...we could wind up 8-4, and while that is better, it's not where any of us want to be...even 9-3 could still offer up some questions depending on who you lose to or who you beat.

Most of us have watched enough football in our day to tell if a team is any good or not by watching them play. i said it some time back, we could very well lose to Cal, but dependent upon how we play that game you'll be able to tell whether or not this team has improved or not offensively. and that goes back to getting beat or losing. I know it sounds stupid, and losing still sucks, but it was kind of like how we lost to ND at Knoxville in 90. I hated losing that game, but i knew we had a good football team, even in a loss.
 
#49
#49
crimedawg12 said:
Yeah and our wins were pretty ugly too!
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yes they were, but we were WINNING...and i think that says a lot about a team as well...finding ways to win games in those close games i think is a good thing...as long as it's against measurable competition like beating Miami or Florida or Georgia etc...in close games...winning ugly close games against UAB or Memphis leaves a lot to be desired.
 
#50
#50
Whether it's a point or fifty, a win is a win. The only thing is that when you only beat a lesser opponent by a point, it usually means you're going to get your hat handed by the better teams.
 
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