Point of no return for Coach Fulmer.

#76
#76
GAVol said:
What's wrong with being a homer anyway?
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Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, nothing. Nothing at all, and I like homers because they make my UT outlook brighter for the day.

However, if a homer ever wanted their opinion taken on a debate, being a homer hinders credibility.
 
#77
#77
VolinArizona said:
I wouldn't call someone who thought that a homer, per se. However, what kind of measuring stick are you using? We're nowhere near the top in championships. We're close in wins, yes? Top 10 I think. We probably have top 10 in most winning seasons, but probably not #1. Bowl wins? Probably up there.

However, how many TRUE (DO NOT USE ALABAMA COUNTING!!!) National Titles does UT have? Very few. That, IMO, is the main criteria for this, and I think most everybody would agree.
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Actually we have the most wins of any school since the 30's I believe. NC's were so fractured for most of CFB that there was no single champ. I mean, do you count polls that no longer exist? Do you count retroactive polls (like bammer)?
 
#78
#78
There was also a huge bias for much of the early period. I mean, could a player on a 2-9 team ever win the heisman at any school but ND? There's no way it happens.
 
#79
#79
utvolpj said:
Actually we have the most wins of any school since the 30's I believe. NC's were so fractured for most of CFB that there was no single champ. I mean, do you count polls that no longer exist? Do you count retroactive polls (like bammer)?
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Still, we have what ... 2 or 3?
 
#83
#83
GAVol said:
What's wrong with being a homer anyway?
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IMO no one can objectively say that UT's football program is the best in the nation right now. In most polls this year, its a marginal top 25 team.

If last week's scrimmage are any indications, it may not be ranked very long. I think most objective people have concerns about the direction the program is going in. That's all. :hi:
 
#84
#84
utfantilidie said:
If you aren't a true UT fan, I might as well be talking to the wall.
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a true UT fan? what exactly is the definition of that?

Just because someone doesn't think we're the best college football program in the nation, hands down, doesn't mean that he's not a "true UT fan". that term gets thrown around here too often, and doesn't mean anything.

truth is TN is ONE of the best football programs in the country, not THE best....
6 National Titles...Bama, USC, ND, NEB, OK all have more i think...
#2 in all time Bowl Game appearances, behind Bama
#3 in all time Bowl GAme Wins behind USC and Bama
#2 in all time SEC titles behind Bama
and not sure about all time wins, but think it's top 5, but since 1926, TN and Bama are tied for most wins period at 622.

and these are things to be proud of, yes, but to come off a 5-6 season with all the questions we have going in to the next, none of that stuff above will equate to one single win next year. and being a "true fan" doesn't mean that you can't challenge whether or not this program is on shaky ground right now, which imo it is. especially when you consider the standards that have been set by all that stuff above....
 
#85
#85
Volstorm said:
Whether it's a point or fifty, a win is a win. The only thing is that when you only beat a lesser opponent by a point, it usually means you're going to get your hat handed by the better teams.
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Very much true. During the Fulmer 14 year tenure, the Vols have scored over 400 points in a season 6 times. They posted 10+ wins in each of those seasons. Twice they had 10+ wins with less than 400 points... which begs the question of how good those teams might have been if Casey Clausen hadn't been the QB.

To put things in perspective, Heath Shuler's 93 team scored 484 points, a UT record and won 10 games. Their 34-41 loss to UF probably kept them from playing for a NC. Last year, UT scored 205.

Making close games of games that should be blow outs simply won't cut it... and as you suggested, it usually means you're turning close wins into losses and close losses into blowouts.
 
#86
#86
sjt18 said:
Very much true. During the Fulmer 14 year tenure, the Vols have scored over 400 points in a season 6 times. They posted 10+ wins in each of those seasons. Twice they had 10+ wins with less than 400 points... which begs the question of how good those teams might have been if Casey Clausen hadn't been the QB.
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huh? I seem to remember a 2001 team that won 11 games and an 03 team that won 10 games with Clausen at qb...Shuler had one 10 win season, 93...

....so i guess the answer to your question is... just as good or better as any Heath Shuler quarterbacked team.
 
#87
#87
jakez4ut said:
huh? I seem to remember a 2001 team that won 11 games and an 03 team that won 10 games with Clausen at qb...Shuler had one 10 win season, 93...

....so i guess the answer to your question is... just as good or better as any Heath Shuler quarterbacked team.
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I have never understood the hatred for Clausen. He won alot of games and had great numbers. He might have been slower than Christmas but he was a play or two from playing for the NT two times.
 
#89
#89
BillDuffRules said:
I have never understood the hatred for Clausen. He won alot of games and had great numbers.
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Agreed! I'd take Casey in a heartbeat over the sad state of QB that we had last year (please not this year, too)! What about the '03 Bama game? That 4th and long pass in OT was a thing of beauty.

:machgun: :elephant:
 
#90
#90
vader626 said:
Agreed! I'd take Casey in a heartbeat over the sad state of QB that we had last year (please not this year, too)! What about the '03 Bama game? That 4th and long pass in OT was a thing of beauty.

:machgun: :elephant:
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that 5 ot game was my favorite game ever against Bama...well, maybe 2nd to the 95 game in Bham...but anyway...the way we won that game....ripped the hearts out of all those bama fans....like had been done to us so many times before....awesome.
 
#91
#91
BillDuffRules said:
I have never understood the hatred for Clausen. He won alot of games and had great numbers. He might have been slower than Christmas but he was a play or two from playing for the NT two times.
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He is so underrated as a vol. He had the heart that is missing from last season.
 
#93
#93
allvol123 said:
I agree with that. Casey had to work under Sanders and still managed to help us win a lot of games.
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i think it had less to do with Sanders, and more to do with the fact that we never had skill position players that were consistent. we had a few weapons at WR, but none that were there every snap, every game, every year. Nothing like what we experienced with Peerless and Tee, Joey kent and Marcus Nash and Peyton...

we had spots with Washington, Stallworth and Witten, but not on the consistent level that had previously been established with prior personnel.

so imo it could be argued that Casey did more with less...plus, our RB's during that time weren't "great", at least when compared to guys like Lewis, Stephens, Henry, Garner, Stewart, Grahm etc...liked Cedric Houston, but never was the game breaker any of those other guys were...nor was jabari davis or gerald riggs jr.
 
#94
#94
jakez4ut said:
i think it had less to do with Sanders, and more to do with the fact that we never had skill position players that were consistent. we had a few weapons at WR, but none that were there every snap, every game, every year. Nothing like what we experienced with Peerless and Tee, Joey kent and Marcus Nash and Peyton...

we had spots with Washington, Stallworth and Witten, but not on the consistent level that had previously been established with prior personnel.

so imo it could be argued that Casey did more with less...plus, our RB's during that time weren't "great", at least when compared to guys like Lewis, Stephens, Henry, Garner, Stewart, Grahm etc...liked Cedric Houston, but never was the game breaker any of those other guys were...nor was jabari davis or gerald riggs jr.
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IMO I hate that we lost out on Jimmy. With Cut back, Jimmy has the potential to turn into Peyton. On a scouting board before he committed to ND, the scouts said he has more talent than Peyton did entering as a freshman.
 
#95
#95
utchatt said:
IMO I hate that we lost out on Jimmy. With Cut back, Jimmy has the potential to turn into Peyton. On a scouting board before he committed to ND, the scouts said he has more talent than Peyton did entering as a freshman.
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all speculation at this point...though with the coaches and players he will likely play for and with at ND, there is plenty of reason to believe the hype about Jimmy. but again, that book has yet to be written...until he steps on the feild in a gold helmet and puts up some numbers, what is said about him doesn't matter.
 
#96
#96
utchatt said:
IMO I hate that we lost out on Jimmy. With Cut back, Jimmy has the potential to turn into Peyton. On a scouting board before he committed to ND, the scouts said he has more talent than Peyton did entering as a freshman.
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Comparing a QB to Peyton is a death sentence, if Erik Ainge is any evidence. Honestly, I'm pretty sure Jimmy Clausen played against some pretty terrible competition in high school. I'm still upset we didn't get him, but I tend to think some of his hype might be undeserved. Nonetheless, Charlie Weiss has a hold of him, so he has an excellent chance to succeed.
 
#97
#97
jakez4ut said:
all speculation at this point...though with the coaches and players he will likely play for and with at ND, there is plenty of reason to believe the hype about Jimmy. but again, that book has yet to be written...until he steps on the feild in a gold helmet and puts up some numbers, what is said about him doesn't matter.
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Need the nation forget about Ron Powlus and his perdicted multiple Hiesmans and NC.
 
#98
#98
exactly...every year there are guys that are supposed to be world beaters that just never get it...hell, we may have one of them on our team!!!!
 
#99
#99
kptvol said:
Comparing a QB to Peyton is a death sentence, if Erik Ainge is any evidence. Honestly, I'm pretty sure Jimmy Clausen played against some pretty terrible competition in high school. I'm still upset we didn't get him, but I tend to think some of his hype might be undeserved. Nonetheless, Charlie Weiss has a hold of him, so he has an excellent chance to succeed.
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He is from California so I think he has seen top notch competition. Getting away from UT was the best way to get away from the comparisions to his brothers and Peyton.
 
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