Politics can be funny

#51
#51
Funny to find feminists in the 19th century opposed abortin because they viewed it as a way for men to escape responsibility.
 
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#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
No.

I think the vast, vast majority of people on the right, Republicans or otherwise,are well meaning people who want what is best for their families and their communities.

There is a small contingent that wishes to impose their very narrow view of morality and religion on everyone else because they are convinced that it's best. And there is an even narrower range that takes delight in antagonizing people who are not like them and don't share their views.

She is one of those people.

I wish voters in all communities would stop voting out of spite or just to embrace the extreme trying to offset the other. It's going poorly.
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Who is imposing their religion or morality on you? You talking about abortion?
 
#56
#56
n_huffhines said:
Aside: is it actually part of conservative ideology to oppose abortion? I know basically all conservatives oppose abortion, but I'm just wondering has that always philosophically been part of the platform, or did it just happen because religious people were drawn to conservatism?
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From a social standpoint most consider the baby/fetus an individual human distinct from the mother from the start. thus worthy of the liberties the rest of us get.

I guess the fiscal/government side of the conservative argument is that the government shouldnt be involved (pro or con laws or required health care/insurance) or providing money, for just about anything including abortions.
 
#57
#57
McDad said:
Way back when I was a young man, DC elites argued over policy but buddied up after debates.

I prefer disdain and loathing. I hope it leads to gridlock and complete inability to pass new laws, overspend, and buy votes. Likely a pipe dream but a man can dream.
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I'm getting to the opinion that no party should be allowed control of the house, senate, and presidency - maybe just narrowed down to not able to hold the majority in the house and senate. I have no idea how that might work when the elections would dictate otherwise, but we seem to do better most of the time when the house and senate are at odds with each other. At least it might keep congress from stuffing things like obamaCare and stimulus bills we can't afford down our throats. We'd probably still get trash legislation like the Patriot Act any way we go, but maybe it would be better.
 
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#58
#58
McDad said:
Society as a whole is getting better. Small pockets of society are getting worse and more vocal though.

I don't care about the politician's twitter beefs. They are corrupted people. I don't expect them to be anything but distasteful.
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I'm not so sure about that, McDad. Society as a whole is getting bitter because most of us seem to view someone else as driving the agenda, and politicians don't seem to represent much of anybody but themselves and people who feed their lust for power and wealth.
 
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#59
#59
OrangeTsar said:
Conservativism historically has valued the existing moral code and only supported changes when there was a clear consensus that things needed to change. There has NEVER been a consensus in the Western moral tradition (at least post Sparta) that infanticide or abortion is acceptable. Christianity of course has always abhorred both practices. It never needed to become a part of the written conservative platform until people actually started arguing for the right to do it. Just like neither political party current has a platform plank supporting the butchering of kittens for entertainment, until society degenerates to a point where people want to do that, everyone just sort of agrees that no sane person would want to do that anyway
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Exactly on the bolded. The rub comes when the left infiltrate and coopt a political party. The liberal view is that the status quo is never acceptable, and the more ways they can find to push change, the more they can divide society. The liberal view has always been about dividing society to push change, and it's not even clear they really care about the change ... they care about division and gaining power over less contentious and less power hungry conservatives. We are far less likely to veer toward a totalitarian right than toward a totalitarian left country.
 
#60
#60
OrangeTsar said:
Adds up perfectly I think. People started arguing in 1959 and it gained more and not adherents until a case eventually went to trial 13 years later establishing a “right” to abortion that then resulted in the need to create a platform plank in the next national election in 1976
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Much of that push probably came from the antiwar movement of the 60s and 70s when Vietnam was used to drive a wedge through the country. That movement alone probably spun off more activists who could turn their "spoils of victory" to a whole plethora of other agendas than even an event like the civil war.
 
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#63
#63
AM64 said:
I'm not so sure about that, McDad. Society as a whole is getting bitter because most of us seem to view someone else as driving the agenda, and politicians don't seem to represent much of anybody but themselves and people who feed their lust for power and wealth.
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America as illustrated by media, politicians, and news outlets is worse and will always getting worse.
America as illustrated by family, neighbors, and communities is better than we've ever been.
 
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#64
#64
McDad said:
America as illustrated by media, politicians, and news outlets is worse and will always getting worse.
America as illustrated by family, neighbors, and communities is better than we've ever been.
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I don't know if I agree with that. People (at least in my community) seem to be getting ruder and less friendly.
 
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#65
#65
McDad said:
America as illustrated by media, politicians, and news outlets is worse and will always getting worse.
America as illustrated by family, neighbors, and communities is better than we've ever been.
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I agree, and I wonder if the extremists are causing more of us with similar opinion to flock together. I noticed something that in a way offended me and then made me think a bit deeper at Thanksgiving. Since I'm now in the great uncle category but don't know the right term for the niece, I'll just say she's at college and becoming part of that more worldly group than us. Anyway, one logo on her laptop said "Make racists fear again". You'd think from that that we've taken a hard turn somewhere to become racists when I'd bet all of us with an open mind see a huge difference between now and the 50s. But you'd think from the logo that lynchings were a common occurrence and the klan was around the corner. That really annoyed me to think that gains have been minimized and kids are being fed social nonsense.
 
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#67
#67
AM64 said:
I agree, and I wonder if the extremists are causing more of us with similar opinion to flock together. I noticed something that in a way offended me and then made me think a bit deeper at Thanksgiving. Since I'm now in the great uncle category but don't know the right term for the niece, I'll just say she's at college and becoming part of that more worldly group than us. Anyway, one logo on her laptop said "Make racists fear again". You'd think from that that we've taken a hard turn somewhere to become racists when I'd bet all of us with an open mind see a huge difference between now and the 50s. But you'd think from the logo that lynchings were a common occurrence and the klan was around the corner. That really annoyed me to think that gains have been minimized and kids are being fed social nonsense.
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I can only speak to my experiences as faculty at three different universities. What I see are the students riling each other up. Hell, I'm experiencing that right now and trying to distance myself from it with a group I'm a co-advisor for. It hasn't been a good Tuesday. But, I digress.

It's hard to indoctrinate students who won't read the syllabus. But that's my $0.02.

Those of us untenured folk don't have the option of being political.
 
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#68
#68
AshG said:
I can only speak to my experiences as faculty at three different universities. What I see are the students riling each other up. Hell, I'm experiencing that right now and trying to distance myself from it with a group I'm a co-advisor for. It hasn't been a good Tuesday. But, I digress.

It's hard to indoctrinate students who won't read the syllabus. But that's my $0.02.

Those of us untenured folk don't have the option of being political.
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I don't doubt that at all. It's hard to know more than a college student; and if in doubt, ask one. As a "refugee" of college during the Vietnam protest era, I'd agree students themselves drum up most of the support - and UT wasn't even a real hotbed compared to a lot of colleges at the time.
 
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#72
#72
n_huffhines said:
Aside: is it actually part of conservative ideology to oppose abortion? I know basically all conservatives oppose abortion, but I'm just wondering has that always philosophically been part of the platform, or did it just happen because religious people were drawn to conservatism?
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I've always considered that the Libertarian position should be to oppose abortion once viability (I know that's a moving target) has occurred. It becomes not about one person's freedom but a balancing of the rights of two human lives.
 
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#74
#74
volinbham said:
I've always considered that the Libertarian position should be to oppose abortion once viability (I know that's a moving target) has occurred. It becomes not about one person's freedom but a balancing of the rights of two human lives.
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Morally, I'm against it whenever it's become "human life", whatever that means.

Personally, I won't participate in it because I don't know when that is, and I would like to err on the side of not killing.

Policy-wise, it's hard to see feasibility in any law that extremely limits abortion, regardless of other considerations. You'd be creating a black market and other unintended consequences.

It is seriously the most complicated issue in politics. Usually being libertarian is pretty easy, but I see why libertarians fall all over the spectrum on this one.
 
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