Poll: If you are a Trump supporter, do you consider him to be a “good Christian?”

[Orangeslice13]

Oh Dear Lord I hope I didn’t just start another vocabulary debate on the use of “logos”

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I believe there is more than the mind but I don't know what it is. It just seems to be the arrogance of man to believe that all can be explained by the mind or man-created thinking. Is it an energy? a force? an entity? No idea.

it’s the spirit of the Lord brother!

 

[volinbham]

it’s the spirit of the Lord brother!

or the Makers Mark and bath salts

 

[BigO95]

Daniel chapter 11.

What about it?
That whole book is amazing! It's certainly a supernatural work of God!

 

[Septic]

Have either of you ever heard stories of people who have lost a loved one and even though they live across the country the person wakes up at the exact moment the loved one passes away? Do you consider those stories to be bogus and if not is that something in the mind that is waking a person at the exact time a loved one passes away?

I've heard stories, I'm not convinced. I'm not saying it's not true but there are lots of coincidences in life.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

What about it?
That whole book is amazing! It's certainly a supernatural work of God!

Very interesting read. You mentioned the apocalypse correct? Or am I confusing you with someone else? It also discusses the Antichrist.

 

[Septic]

@Septic
“The word of G-d”
So…

The “Word of G-d” is introduced in John ….

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



The “Word of G-d” is not a Hebrew term or idiom. It’s not widely used as a concept in Judaism. So people always think John is introducing or revealing something new here. The typical explanation you’ve probably heard is “Jesus is the Word”. But that’s not exactly what is going on there. I have said this a bunch so you may have heard me say “my G-d is a G-d of laws. His standard given to us is called the law (Torah) so it makes sense that his creation is set up on laws” this is a very Hebrew way of thinking. We say that all the time. Similar statements can be found in Hebrew writings all the way back to 200 BCE. So what John is doing here is borrowing from a Greek philosopher to explain a Hebrew concept to people who will be new to the Hebrew way of thinking. Specifically the Greek philosophy of Thales of Miletus, who lived in the seventh century BC.

Thales argued that, contrary to the idea that the world was largely erratic and unpredictable in its operations, it was actually subject to rigid laws of nature, and that these laws could be discovered using reason and observation.



This meant that G-d – or, depending on which belief system you subscribed to, a whole pantheon of gods – created the world upon some clear and knowable principle, and that this principle is constant rather than changeable and arbitrary.

One of Thales’ followers, Heraclitus, used the term ‘Logos’ to refer to this rational principle. ‘Logos’ means ‘word’ but it also denotes the entire rational structure of knowledge as Thales and Heraclitus had theorised it. And as the term ‘Logos’ was taken up by more and more philosophers, it came to refer not to some abstract entity but to a thing, even a person: the person who had created this orderly system of knowledge and principle in the world. Logos, if you will, became personified.

This tradition spread beyond the Greek world, and was taken up by the Jewish followers of YHWH or the Old Testament G-d In Yeshua’s (Jesus) time, a man named Philo the Jew popularised the term Logos as a reference to the rational aspect of YHWH

So when John begins his gospel by taking us back to the very beginning – of time and of the world and the universe – he is using the term Logos in light of this thinking.

So ‘In the beginning was the Word’ means ‘In the beginning was Logos’ which means ‘at the beginning of everything, there was the entity we know as God, who embodied, and created, the rational principle on which everything is founded’.





****yes , I cheated and borrowed parts of this from a paper I wrote and other parts from a paper a friend wrote as I didn’t feel like typing it all out again. I hope that was at least informative and didn’t bore you to death. ******

Thanks for sharing, unfortunately my experience is that some people *cough* use the phrase in a very literal sense.

 

[BigO95]

Very interesting read. You mentioned the apocalypse correct? Or am I confusing you with someone else? It also discusses the Antichrist.

I was mentioning that history was written in advance in the book of Daniel but it very much deals with the subjects that you mentioned here.
Daniel is one of my favorite books in the bible! I stand amazed every time I study or preach through it...

 

[Septic]

 

[Orangeslice13]

Thanks for sharing, unfortunately my experience is that some people *cough* use the phrase in a very literal sense.

Ya.
There’s religion and then there’s history

 

[BigO95]

Here's a very interesting debate between a creationist and three evolutionists. Enjoy

 

[LouderVol]

We're trying to study discuss Holy Spirit in church currently. I am leading the discussion in 5 days. Very curious about God in us as a construct of our experiences.

I like to look at the Holy Spirit/God in us the following way"

the "daily miracle". we are surrounded by small acts/items/experiences that can have monumental impacts. people get to fixated on looking for or waiting for the big miracles, but don't take the time to notice or appreciate the small ones. No where in any of the books does it say God is going to make LouderVols life easy or perfect. We are going to go through sucky things, and have bead things happen, none of which invalidates God, because he is still there. we just don't want to see it. In a world filled with violence, immoral actions, and terrible happenstances there is still good. Thats where God is. it may seem small, it may seem like a coincidence, it may seem pointless. but its there. and its in us as well. Hopefully people live lives where they are that small little miracle in someone's life. could just be immediate family, or one friend, doesn't have to be to humanity, or your country, or even religion. Those small things are still incredibly important for surviving the day to day. If you want to separate them like Catholics do I look at it like "God" takes care of the big stuff, made the universe, knows everything, all powerful, flashy miracles that become the basis for whole religions. "Jesus" is the one who made it all real, showed that humanity COULD live up to God's standard, showing us the way and providing the "way" to God. Then the "Holy Spirit" is "God" on the everyday. not moving mountains or causing great floods, but maybe that little beautiful flower in the side walk that brightens your mood. maybe its that one time the bird singing sounded just a little bit more beautiful. maybe its after a rough day and you get in your car and a favorite song comes on the radio immediately and helps you relax on your way home. hopefully its the time YOU smiled at a stranger, and did something nice for them while they were having a really bad day. and that one small act changed their outlook. it doesn't take away the bad. but it shows them, even if they don't understand it, that God is still there. and you didn't give them that smile because you knew they were having a bad day, you didn't have a real reason to smile or be nice, you just found yourself doing it. that to me is God in us/the Holy Spirit. The miracle we need, not the miracle we want.

the other way that is pretty simple and used to be more relatable than it is today. I found it helpful to picture it as: God is the incandescent lightbulb. he is the only real object in the discussion and also the source of the others, but also whose value comes from those others. Jesus would be the light that the light bulb creates, fits in well with plenty of bible verses. God created that light, but the light is separate from the bulb, goes beyond the bulb. the light provides illumination. showing us both ourselves, the world around us, and even God himself, even if you can't look directly at God because he is too bright. The Holy Spirit is the warmth that light bulb and light create, the part that we can feel. the reaction of the light reacting with the world around us, even if your eyes are closed, or are otherwise unaware of the light or the bulb, you can still feel and experience it all. but not in the grand way of light illuminating the whole room, you just know the warmth on your skin or what is immediately around you. its the experience of God on a personal level, rather than on a species or religious level.

 

[McDad]

I like to look at the Holy Spirit/God in us the following way"

the "daily miracle". we are surrounded by small acts/items/experiences that can have monumental impacts. people get to fixated on looking for or waiting for the big miracles, but don't take the time to notice or appreciate the small ones. No where in any of the books does it say God is going to make LouderVols life easy or perfect. We are going to go through sucky things, and have bead things happen, none of which invalidates God, because he is still there. we just don't want to see it. In a world filled with violence, immoral actions, and terrible happenstances there is still good. Thats where God is. it may seem small, it may seem like a coincidence, it may seem pointless. but its there. and its in us as well. Hopefully people live lives where they are that small little miracle in someone's life. could just be immediate family, or one friend, doesn't have to be to humanity, or your country, or even religion. Those small things are still incredibly important for surviving the day to day. If you want to separate them like Catholics do I look at it like "God" takes care of the big stuff, made the universe, knows everything, all powerful, flashy miracles that become the basis for whole religions. "Jesus" is the one who made it all real, showed that humanity COULD live up to God's standard, showing us the way and providing the "way" to God. Then the "Holy Spirit" is "God" on the everyday. not moving mountains or causing great floods, but maybe that little beautiful flower in the side walk that brightens your mood. maybe its that one time the bird singing sounded just a little bit more beautiful. maybe its after a rough day and you get in your car and a favorite song comes on the radio immediately and helps you relax on your way home. hopefully its the time YOU smiled at a stranger, and did something nice for them while they were having a really bad day. and that one small act changed their outlook. it doesn't take away the bad. but it shows them, even if they don't understand it, that God is still there. and you didn't give them that smile because you knew they were having a bad day, you didn't have a real reason to smile or be nice, you just found yourself doing it. that to me is God in us/the Holy Spirit. The miracle we need, not the miracle we want.

the other way that is pretty simple and used to be more relatable than it is today. I found it helpful to picture it as: God is the incandescent lightbulb. he is the only real object in the discussion and also the source of the others, but also whose value comes from those others. Jesus would be the light that the light bulb creates, fits in well with plenty of bible verses. God created that light, but the light is separate from the bulb, goes beyond the bulb. the light provides illumination. showing us both ourselves, the world around us, and even God himself, even if you can't look directly at God because he is too bright. The Holy Spirit is the warmth that light bulb and light create, the part that we can feel. the reaction of the light reacting with the world around us, even if your eyes are closed, or are otherwise unaware of the light or the bulb, you can still feel and experience it all. but not in the grand way of light illuminating the whole room, you just know the warmth on your skin or what is immediately around you. its the experience of God on a personal level, rather than on a species or religious level.

Very nice, Thanks for the contribution.

 

[LouderVol]

I believe there is more than the mind but I don't know what it is. It just seems to be the arrogance of man to believe that all can be explained by the mind or man-created thinking. Is it an energy? a force? an entity? No idea.

I don't think they have definitively proven it, or really identified what it means. but there is a good bit of talk about the heart creating a pretty strong electromagnetic field and that we can sense others. I think it is proven we do create a field, just not 100% that we sense it.

Cardiac torsion and electromagnetic fields: the cardiac bioinformation hypothesis - PubMed

Although in physiology the heart is often referred to as a simple piston pump, there are in fact two additional features that are integral to cardiac physiology and function. First, the heart as it contracts in systole, also rotates and produces torsion due to the structure of the myocardium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

some of the suppositions and hypothesis that I agree with is that humans actually can recognize those electromagnetic fields from other people they have strong feelings about. like you knowing a good friend or spouse walked into a room without hearing or seeing them.

its also suggested this field is why you can sometimes tell that you are about to get a phone call/text on your cell. your field recognizes its field since we keep it around so much.

it would go to explain a lot of the "weirdness" with twins.

 

[LouderVol]

I was mentioning that history was written in advance in the book of Daniel but it very much deals with the subjects that you mentioned here.
Daniel is one of my favorite books in the bible! I stand amazed every time I study or preach through it...

what history was written in advance in the Book of Daniel? talking purely historical, not worrying about the messiah or end times or anything Godly.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I like to look at the Holy Spirit/God in us the following way"

the "daily miracle". we are surrounded by small acts/items/experiences that can have monumental impacts. people get to fixated on looking for or waiting for the big miracles, but don't take the time to notice or appreciate the small ones. No where in any of the books does it say God is going to make LouderVols life easy or perfect. We are going to go through sucky things, and have bead things happen, none of which invalidates God, because he is still there. we just don't want to see it. In a world filled with violence, immoral actions, and terrible happenstances there is still good. Thats where God is. it may seem small, it may seem like a coincidence, it may seem pointless. but its there. and its in us as well. Hopefully people live lives where they are that small little miracle in someone's life. could just be immediate family, or one friend, doesn't have to be to humanity, or your country, or even religion. Those small things are still incredibly important for surviving the day to day. If you want to separate them like Catholics do I look at it like "God" takes care of the big stuff, made the universe, knows everything, all powerful, flashy miracles that become the basis for whole religions. "Jesus" is the one who made it all real, showed that humanity COULD live up to God's standard, showing us the way and providing the "way" to God. Then the "Holy Spirit" is "God" on the everyday. not moving mountains or causing great floods, but maybe that little beautiful flower in the side walk that brightens your mood. maybe its that one time the bird singing sounded just a little bit more beautiful. maybe its after a rough day and you get in your car and a favorite song comes on the radio immediately and helps you relax on your way home. hopefully its the time YOU smiled at a stranger, and did something nice for them while they were having a really bad day. and that one small act changed their outlook. it doesn't take away the bad. but it shows them, even if they don't understand it, that God is still there. and you didn't give them that smile because you knew they were having a bad day, you didn't have a real reason to smile or be nice, you just found yourself doing it. that to me is God in us/the Holy Spirit. The miracle we need, not the miracle we want.

the other way that is pretty simple and used to be more relatable than it is today. I found it helpful to picture it as: God is the incandescent lightbulb. he is the only real object in the discussion and also the source of the others, but also whose value comes from those others. Jesus would be the light that the light bulb creates, fits in well with plenty of bible verses. God created that light, but the light is separate from the bulb, goes beyond the bulb. the light provides illumination. showing us both ourselves, the world around us, and even God himself, even if you can't look directly at God because he is too bright. The Holy Spirit is the warmth that light bulb and light create, the part that we can feel. the reaction of the light reacting with the world around us, even if your eyes are closed, or are otherwise unaware of the light or the bulb, you can still feel and experience it all. but not in the grand way of light illuminating the whole room, you just know the warmth on your skin or what is immediately around you. its the experience of God on a personal level, rather than on a species or religious level.

Nice post.
A lot to unpack there. There’s a real similarity in the we Messaianic Hebrews see the “Holy Spirit “.
We don’t see any difference in the 2 or that there is a separation. The “spirit of G-d” quite simply is G-d

Edit: slight difference in the view of Jesus.
My analogy would Would be that G-d is fire. The only fire. Jesus is an ember begotten of that fire. The only begotten ember of the fire. All the power given from the fire but not the fire.

Again, nice post. Thanks for sharing

 

[LouderVol]

Nice post.
A lot to unpack there. There’s a real similarity in the we Messaianic Hebrews see the “Holy Spirit “.
We don’t see any difference in the 2 or that there is a separation. The “spirit of G-d” quite simply is G-d

Edit: slight difference in the view of Jesus.
My analogy would Would be that G-d is fire. The only fire. Jesus is an ember begotten of that fire. The only begotten ember of the fire. All the power given from the fire but not the fire.

Again, nice post. Thanks for sharing

yeah, its definitely more of a Catholic take on it. Its very much 1 God but with "three parts". even though one of those parts is God. lots of wordy theological stuff supported by various bible passages as separate entities. Mainly pointing to the baptism of Christ and God sending down his Holy Spirit at that moment, as the backing for the emphasis as three as one or three in one. lots of ways to try and simplify a very complicated belief.

 

[MHS Rebel]

View attachment 608606

Osteen is one of those "I'm-OK-you're-OK" guys. I've watched his show and never once did he mention Jesus.

 

[BigO95]

what history was written in advance in the Book of Daniel? talking purely historical, not worrying about the messiah or end times or anything Godly.

Was there not a prophecy of the Babylonians being taken over by the Medes and the Persians and then the Medes and Persians falling to the Grecian empire and then the Roman empire coming into view?

 

[MercyPercy]

Was there not a prophecy of the Babylonians being taken over by the Medes and the Persians and then the Medes and Persians falling to the Grecian empire and then the Roman empire coming into view?

That would be impressive if there was any real proof that it was written in 600 BC. Less so when you realize it was from the same time that these events occurred.

 

[BigO95]

That would be impressive if there was any real proof that it was written in 600 BC. Less so when you realize it was from the same time that these events occurred.

That's where you are wrong... Daniel was the author of the book. He wrote it first hand and lived around the time of Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[BigO95]

The bible is an accurate historical book. I would trust it over the writings of Josephus any day.

 

[LouderVol]

Was there not a prophecy of the Babylonians being taken over by the Medes and the Persians and then the Medes and Persians falling to the Grecian empire and then the Roman empire coming into view?

its not prophetic because its 1 actively happening., and 2 no historically accurate. 3. didn't require any great insight to know what was happening.

considering Daniel actively lived through the fall of Babylon, as the book of Daniel lays out, its not a prophecy to say it happens while it happens. The son of the first Babylonian king Daniel served was in power for less than 5 years before being conquered by the Persians. Its why the later chapters of Daniel he is working with the Persians. Daniel was still speaking truth to the king, he was probably the one person there who wasn't a yes-man to the king to say the active wars they were fighting against the Medes/persians wasn't going well. and it doesn't take divine inspiration to know that the king of a land is worried about its fall and the enemies he faces.

for the history part of it, pretty much none of it was correct:
that "Grecian" empire was Macedonian, and when it fell the "four" beasts that replaced it were really like a dozen generals who replaced Alexander, none of which was Rome. and none of the successor states spawned an additional 10 "horns", but again Alexander never controlled Rome for them to be considered part of the prophecy as the 4th beast. and Rome conquered more than 3 of the successors of Alexander. Rome also had far more than 10 of their own kings before they conquered Israel, so pretty much no part of that applies to actual history.

the medes and the persians were the only names he got right and if they are telling the difference between Medes and Persians, they should be able to tell the difference between Greek and Macedonian. and again the Babylonians were actively fighting the Medes and Persians pretty much throughout their entire existence, so its not like it was some unknown group that rose thousands of miles away. they were well known neighbors who were already strong before the fall of Babylon.

 

[jvol1]

I can believe an oral history shared among common people could remain unchanged for millennia more so than a written one controlled by those in power.

I can believe it if they're Jewish. Of course, that also means it's probably been encoded in triplicate and hidden away so that only the Jews know what that history actually is.

 

[BigO95]

its not prophetic because its 1 actively happening., and 2 no historically accurate. 3. didn't require any great insight to know what was happening.

considering Daniel actively lived through the fall of Babylon, as the book of Daniel lays out, its not a prophecy to say it happens while it happens. The son of the first Babylonian king Daniel served was in power for less than 5 years before being conquered by the Persians. Its why the later chapters of Daniel he is working with the Persians. Daniel was still speaking truth to the king, he was probably the one person there who wasn't a yes-man to the king to say the active wars they were fighting against the Medes/persians wasn't going well. and it doesn't take divine inspiration to know that the king of a land is worried about its fall and the enemies he faces.

for the history part of it, pretty much none of it was correct:
that "Grecian" empire was Macedonian, and when it fell the "four" beasts that replaced it were really like a dozen generals who replaced Alexander, none of which was Rome. and none of the successor states spawned an additional 10 "horns", but again Alexander never controlled Rome for them to be considered part of the prophecy as the 4th beast. and Rome conquered more than 3 of the successors of Alexander. Rome also had far more than 10 of their own kings before they conquered Israel, so pretty much no part of that applies to actual history.

the medes and the persians were the only names he got right and if they are telling the difference between Medes and Persians, they should be able to tell the difference between Greek and Macedonian. and again the Babylonians were actively fighting the Medes and Persians pretty much throughout their entire existence, so its not like it was some unknown group that rose thousands of miles away. they were well known neighbors who were already strong before the fall of Babylon.

I've studied the history and it is indeed accurate.