Poll: If you are a Trump supporter, do you consider him to be a “good Christian?”

[creekdipper]

Huh

Just because we don't understand something doesn't mean we are relying on a supernatural explanation. What was before the big bang, how exactly did it happen, where exactly is this universe going in next few billion years.. these are things we either barely have theories about or no good science at all on. And we may never.

It's really okay to say 'I don't know' and it's not a 'gotcha'.

Do you think there is a rational explanation that falls within our natural systems?

If you do believe that but can't explain it, you're taking that on faith that a natural explanation exists. If you say that the explanation might fall beyond any known natural principles and laws of physics, then that by definition is "supernatural."

Of course, there are non-theists who say that they won't totally rule out God but can't say definitively either way. R.Dawkins has said that he leaves the tiniest possibility open for God's existence while remaining almost entirely skeptical.

Some would say our very existence proves that there has to be a natural explanation...but they have to contend with the philosophers who question whether our perceptions are real or mere imaginative figments.

 

[Orangeslice13]

A Visual Representation of Biblical Contradictions

Today, most Christian theologians will say that the Bible should not be interpreted literally as many fundamentalists do, but allegorically, with emphasis on morals and parables. That’s fine …

sciencebasedlife.wordpress.com

The context debate in the comments was pretty interesting.

 

[Orangeslice13]

What? Creation is a biological process--period. There is nothing "supernatural" about it.

That can’t currently be explained, or replicated.

 

[Orangeslice13]

We don't really have a clue, but we know the answer can't be "God."

In debates, some interesting premises come up. For instance, I frequently hear that the purpose of existence is to exist. (0f course, we know that the correct answer is 42). Also, I hear that "morality" is simply an evolutionary response in pragmatic terms. Any value judgments are just mechanisms to aid the survival of the species (for the aforementioned purpose of "survival" as the end goal...the ends justifying the means).

Arthur Dent?


You’re a jerk, Dent.

 

[LouderVol]

Sounds reasonable.

you were the one who made the people giving praise the bad guys. instead of recognizing that things can always get worse, and if there was ever a time to thank your god it would be after surviving a natural disaster. and anyone with common sense would know just because one family is saved doesn't mean another is doomed in their place.

Good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. Free will comes with a lot of misunderstood consequences that some believers don't want to admit to.

 

[LouderVol]

No, I’m saying I went deep into this and there’s a crapload of evidence from a different religion’s point of view. When it stacks up it becomes overwhelming. I’ve said from the beginning that this is too big for a message board so I should have left it at that.
You seem emotionally attached to this and it’s not worth the fuss. Some things are. This isn’t.

not sure how you got emotionally attached from this exchange, but that has become part of your go to deflections.

you were making pretty strong suppositions and then when I responded to your leading statements you get your dander up and closed off, that doesn't speak to an intention to have an honest conversation.

you could give short answers in response, a sentence or two. that would help me, or anyone else reading it, know if the discussion is indeed requiring a longer discussion not fit for a message board. It would also allow any of us to do our own research along the way that would help with any discussion off the board.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Trump just admitted that he took money from China. Why has no one posted this???

 

[hog88]

Trump just admitted that he took money from China. Why has no one posted this???

Because it means nothing.

 

[LouderVol]

What? Creation is a biological process--period. There is nothing "supernatural" about it.

how did said biological process start/get going? Its one thing to talk about universes and planets, gravity, radiowaves from the big bang, quantum theories. Biology is a completely different, separate, and not derived with or from those other sciences/forces of nature. even chemistry doesn't explain biology or life.

put another way, none of the "natural laws" provide for any biological existence, yet alone advanced multicellular evolution. if you combined the base matter for the simplest single cell biological life in a closed system devoid of biological life, it would never come to "life" even simple single cell life, on its own. we can reanimate dead simple life forms, but we have yet to "organically" create life.

 

[LouderVol]

Trump just admitted that he took money from China. Why has no one posted this???

because you are in the wrong thread. LG already has a Trump taking money from China thread. you are a week(ish) late.

 

[Orangeslice13]

not sure how you got emotionally attached from this exchange, but that has become part of your go to deflections.

you were making pretty strong suppositions and then when I responded to your leading statements you get your dander up and closed off, that doesn't speak to an intention to have an honest conversation.

you could give short answers in response, a sentence or two. that would help me, or anyone else reading it, know if the discussion is indeed requiring a longer discussion not fit for a message board. It would also allow any of us to do our own research along the way that would help with any discussion off the board.

Let me be completely clear here.

I think it’s pretty clear to most reading that I don’t give a **** what most people think. Let that be context for this.

That was not an insult hurled at you. I don’t think you’re an emotional wreck or fragile. I think there’s a history and that matters.
I said something to you in the past that I felt was pretty be benign. You were deeply offended by it. It doesn’t matter what I think when you offended a friend, all that matters is what they think. And like it or not, we’re friends outside of VN.
I owned that and apologized for it. I did that in private then. I’m doing it publicly now to give you the respect you deserve from me. I believe we moved past it but due to that underlying error on my part I will not be engaging you on religious matters that we have sizable differences on. I agree with you more than I disagree so I will be limiting myself to those things.

The Zoroastrian connection to Daniel is just overwhelming when it’s put all together. And their connection to the messiah story as well. But it’s death by 1000 cuts. There is no 1 big thing that jumps out so I would seriously struggle on telling someone where to start. You may recall I referenced my friends paper that was actually a book.

Anyway, I should have said nothing on this one as it’s just not worth the fuss.

But I digress

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Because it means nothing.

What do you mean it means nothing? All I've read about on here for the last 4 years is "China Joe" and how he should be impeached for taking money from China. Trump just flat out admitted to it and "it doesn't mean anything" I swear y'all are the worst of the worst.

And it does mean something because it violates the Emoluments clause of the constitution against federal officials selling influence and profiting from their positions.

 

[McDad]

What do you mean it means nothing? All I've read about on here for the last 4 years is "China Joe" and how he should be impeached for taking money from China. Trump just flat out admitted to it and "it doesn't mean anything" I swear y'all are the worst of the worst.

And it does mean something because it violates the Emoluments clause of the constitution against federal officials selling influence and profiting from their positions.

Wouldn't we need to compare how much money Trump's businesses earned from foreign governments before and during his presidency to make a case for violating Emoluments rules? If the amounts are roughly equivalent, there isn't sufficient evidence he's selling influence or profiting from his position.

When this "news" hit last week, I attempted to find which Trump businesses were referenced. Trump's main business model is some real estate and licensing of his name/brand. The TDS crowd have never made the distinction but it is an important one. Businesses which license his brand earning money from foreign governments is not an issue.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

What do you mean it means nothing? All I've read about on here for the last 4 years is "China Joe" and how he should be impeached for taking money from China. Trump just flat out admitted to it and "it doesn't mean anything" I swear y'all are the worst of the worst.

And it does mean something because it violates the Emoluments clause of the constitution against federal officials selling influence and profiting from their positions.

A large part of what Trump got from China was a lease that a Chinese bank executed in 2012...

Trump's businesses received rent payments in accordance with the lease agreement

 

[LouderVol]

Let me be completely clear here.

I think it’s pretty clear to most reading that I don’t give a **** what most people think. Let that be context for this.

That was not an insult hurled at you. I don’t think you’re an emotional wreck or fragile. I think there’s a history and that matters.
I said something to you in the past that I felt was pretty be benign. You were deeply offended by it. It doesn’t matter what I think when you offended a friend, all that matters is what they think. And like it or not, we’re friends outside of VN.
I owned that and apologized for it. I did that in private then. I’m doing it publicly now to give you the respect you deserve from me. I believe we moved past it but due to that underlying error on my part I will not be engaging you on religious matters that we have sizable differences on. I agree with you more than I disagree so I will be limiting myself to those things.

The Zoroastrian connection to Daniel is just overwhelming when it’s put all together. And their connection to the messiah story as well. But it’s death by 1000 cuts. There is no 1 big thing that jumps out so I would seriously struggle on telling someone where to start. You may recall I referenced my friends paper that was actually a book.

Anyway, I should have said nothing on this one as it’s just not worth the fuss.

But I digress

I certainly wasn't tying anything to previous cases, and as you said you did apologize so thats all past. wasn't emotional here, just looking for honest conversation disagreement or not.

I have no idea who they were, wouldn't matter if they were purple people eaters to me, but I am always looking to learn. you were offering a new avenue to learn, so I was starting to ask questions, made probing comments, so I could learn and you had previously pulled back from that conversation.

being zoroastrians would be the most likely as it was the single biggest religion in the area. but I am unaware of any of their prophecies, which would be an interesting place to start.

 

[MercyPercy]

Do you think there is a rational explanation that falls within our natural systems?

If you do believe that but can't explain it, you're taking that on faith that a natural explanation exists. If you say that the explanation might fall beyond any known natural principles and laws of physics, then that by definition is "supernatural."

Of course, there are non-theists who say that they won't totally rule out God but can't say definitively either way. R.Dawkins has said that he leaves the tiniest possibility open for God's existence while remaining almost entirely skeptical.

Some would say our very existence proves that there has to be a natural explanation...but they have to contend with the philosophers who question whether our perceptions are real or mere imaginative figments.

This is where I'm at. I'm open to the idea of there being some being or force that goes so far beyond our understanding that to us it would essentially be a god. I don't see that as being contradictory to my desire for evidence that would support that theory. What I find less likely is the idea of a personal god that speaks to you and cares about what we do and grants miracles and casts plagues etc. There's been more versions of spirituality/religion throughout human history than grains of sand in a desert. None that I am aware of have particularly taken the lead for me as far as plausibility.

 

[VolinMichigan]

Because it means nothing.

Why?

 

[hog88]

Why?

A large part of what Trump got from China was a lease that a Chinese bank executed in 2012...

Trump's businesses received rent payments in accordance with the lease agreement

And there are several other posts explaining it also.

 

[Orangeburst]

What do you mean it means nothing? All I've read about on here for the last 4 years is "China Joe" and how he should be impeached for taking money from China. Trump just flat out admitted to it and "it doesn't mean anything" I swear y'all are the worst of the worst.

And it does mean something because it violates the Emoluments clause of the constitution against federal officials selling influence and profiting from their positions.

Supreme Court ends Trump emoluments lawsuits

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Monday brought an end to lawsuits over whether Donald Trump illegally profited off his presidency, saying the cases are moot now that Trump is no longer in office.

apnews.com

probably didnt know because your media didnt mention it

 

[VolinMichigan]

Supreme Court ends Trump emoluments lawsuits

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Monday brought an end to lawsuits over whether Donald Trump illegally profited off his presidency, saying the cases are moot now that Trump is no longer in office.

apnews.com

probably didnt know because your media didnt mention it

Oh great so if he wins re-election he’ll cooperate with any investigation into this and the SC will hear the case right?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

And there are several other posts explaining it also.

Funny how no one responds when I bring up the 2012 lease...

 

[Orangeslice13]

This is where I'm at. I'm open to the idea of there being some being or force that goes so far beyond our understanding that to us it would essentially be a god. I don't see that as being contradictory to my desire for evidence that would support that theory. What I find less likely is the idea of a personal god that speaks to you and cares about what we do and grants miracles and casts plagues etc. There's been more versions of spirituality/religion throughout human history than grains of sand in a desert. None that I am aware of have particularly taken the lead for me as far as plausibility.

I believe that G-d is beyond our limited comprehension.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

A 75 IQ is beyond some of the comprehension in this thread...

 

[Velo Vol]

Another powerful statement of faith.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

The entire premise of this thread is dumb still as the day it was posted. It's not like anything on the left counters this. The Democrats literally Booed God at the democratic convention. Wether or not Trump is a Good Christian, or just like Most Christians a flawed man trying, he's infinately better then a party that seems to have identified it'self with all the tenants of Anton lavey. No one supporting the democratic party has a shred of morale ground to stand on and to criticize anyone else about faith. Your party hates humanity adopts anti human policy at every turn including killing babies, and disfiguring teens. You shriek every time anyone makes an appeal to God or faith. Do we think Trump is a good Christian? How about do we think the Democratic party has fully embraced Satanism in all but public name?