Potential shipping strike on the East Coast.

[ButchPlz]

The most positive thing about unions IMO is they create a standard, you know when you hire a union (whatever trade) they will have the capability to do the job, the bad thing about them is that standard will typically not be exceeded. If a guy is capable of wiring 2 panels a day but the standard is one, peer pressure will mean one panel per day.

Certainly not a universal experience.

Unions function like government. The idiots stay employed or get moved around. Nobody actually gets fired. And nearly none are worth the pay.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Public sector unions (i.e. postal and teacher's unions) need to be disbanded and barred forever.

This^^^^^^^ for sure.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

we have had to declare a building unsafe due to the "work" some union plumbers did.

We ALWAYS route our plumbing in 2x6 studs so there is enough wood left to hold up the wall. Union guys had been raising a big stink about the framers. when they came in and ran the few horizontal runs they had, they cut completely thru every other 2x6, the "other" ones they bore a 4" hole in a 5.5" piece of wood. and this was for a 2" or 2.5" pipe.

no reasonable justification for it given.

I'm curious as to how they pass inspections. If they are drilling that big a hole in a string of joists, how does the government inspector allow that to pass. They aren't stupid. They know if structural integrity has been compromised. One would think that after a period of time that plumbing subcontractor would have a hard time finding work if they are costing the General a bunch of money in re-do.

Edit: I see you had to declare a building unsafe. So how does that sub get any future work? I know how bidding works (I did takeoffs and bidding for a contractor back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), but after a time, I would thin that Subcontractor would get blacklisted. I know if I were a general I wouldn't do business with them.

 

[Cod]

I can't speak for Cod, but it sounds like he works in construction so I will speak my two bits.

we see it a good bit on job sites where Union sub contractors will jack up the work done by non-union sub contractors simply because they aren't union.

Some times it just petty stealing loose equipment, or small pieces of hardware, stuff that happens on a job site anyway, but only seems to happen to non-union subs when unions are on site.

the middle is a kinda vicious non-compliance. when a trade comes in after others have worked there is almost always going to be some overlap. framers frame the walls, and plumbers have to come in and cut the walls for pipe. good plumbers are going to minimize that interference, and are responsible for making any needed repairs. Unions will go out of their way to rip up the wood framing as much as possible if the framers aren't union. and typically with the contracts on union work it is much more difficult to get unions to repair the work or give fair value for the fix, that it is a non-union sub.

the worst is straight up violence and stealing equipment. multiple thousands of dollars worth of stuff stolen stuff, not just the loose hammers. anything that isn't nailed down they will take if it isn't "union approved", which typically means made by a union. they will tell the GC they had to remove it because it was in the way or a danger or whatever clear BS they can come up with. and that's if you can prove it was them taking it, but again when its only non-union work getting hit, its pretty clear. it will even get to the point that the unions will go after non-union made work trucks, slashing tires, smashing windows, B&E. usually when this happens it turns to straight up fights because its hard to hide. if the cops get involved the union lawyers swarm the place and bury it legalese bs, and most non-union subs don't have the money to fight them, even if they can prove it.

it is very much the mafia. you don't park near them, don't eat near them, don't question them etc etc.

^This

I have almost had to move a man camp into where we WERE using union contractors and they were only getting 10 "widgets" for example a day, Non Union we can get over 100.

We had meetings with them and they would boost install up to around 20 per day, next day or so after back down to 10.

We later found out that they wanted their "Buddy / Contractor" to get the job and not us so they drug it out thinking it would hurt us. What they didn't know was we already said we were never coming back to that shithole.......it was St. Louis and Local #1 Electricians ****ing awesome great guys (sarcasm)

 

[Cod]

I'm curious as to how they pass inspections.

Cash $$$$ that's how.

 

[LouderVol]

I'm curious as to how they pass inspections. If they are drilling that big a hole in a string of joists, how does the government inspector allow that to pass. They aren't stupid. They know if structural integrity has been compromised. One would think that after a period of time that plumbing subcontractor would have a hard time finding work if they are costing the General a bunch of money in re-do.

Edit: I see you had to declare a building unsafe. So how does that sub get any future work? I know how bidding works (I did takeoffs and bidding for a contractor back when dinosaurs roamed the earth), but after a time, I would thin that Subcontractor would get blacklisted. I know if I were a general I wouldn't do business with them.

they get work because they are union, performance isn't a qualification at that point. if its a federal job, or dealing with certain grants or other types of projects you have to provide it. some funding sources/types require it, very common if the lender is from the NE, usually not an issue if the lender is out west. if the GC is a union guy. if the owner is a union guy, or used to working with them up north.

union subs are still the minority, but due to the boom from 2018-2022 they picked up more work than they have had in the south.

 

[LouderVol]

^This

I have almost had to move a man camp into where we WERE using union contractors and they were only getting 10 "widgets" for example a day, Non Union we can get over 100.

We had meetings with them and they would boost install up to around 20 per day, next day or so after back down to 10.

We later found out that they wanted their "Buddy / Contractor" to get the job and not us so they drug it out thinking it would hurt us. What they didn't know was we already said we were never coming back to that shithole.......it was St. Louis and Local #1 Electricians ****ing awesome great guys (sarcasm)

oh yeah. once they are trying to get their guys on site, it becomes a big time problem with them dragging their feet. Lots of complaints about problems, but never with any specificity that could be fixed.