Potential shipping strike on the East Coast.

#301
#301
LSU-SIU said:
People make 10s of millions, 100s of millions, billions and 10s of billions... in some cases 100s of billions... yes they are the bottom.
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Some people make minimum wage....... They aren't on the bottom, there are a few rungs on the ladder below them to the bottom.
 
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#306
#306
So.... now that those greedy longshoremen extracted an additional 12% out of the dock operators, what is the opinion of them? I think we can all agree that Daggett is a thug, but what about the rank and file worker? Good guys? Bad guys? Does anyone care anymore since the cheap Chinese **** is now bound for your local Walmart?

And it is apparently a tentative agreement which means the rank and file still have to vote on it. The thug will send it to them, but it could still be rejected.
 
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#307
#307
SpaceCoastVol said:
So.... now that those greedy longshoremen extracted an additional 12% out of the dock operators, what is the opinion of them? I think we can all agree that Daggett is a thug, but what about the rank and file worker? Good guys? Bad guys? Does anyone care anymore since the cheap Chinese **** is now bound for your local Walmart?

And it is apparently a tentative agreement which means the rank and file still have to vote on it. The thug will send it to them, but it could still be rejected.
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Unions are corrupt, I've worked with and around unions quite a bit over the last 30+ years and I've never ran across a "good" one.
 
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#308
#308
lawgator1 said:
Trump, and Trump alone, can solve this.



Just ask him. He'll tell you.
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I can see Trump at least working with and talking with them other than standard "I support the Votes, I mean Strike / Longshoremen" and no he's not in office so it's not up to him.
 
#309
#309
Cod said:
Unions are corrupt, I've worked with and around unions quite a bit over the last 30+ years and I've never ran across a "good" one.
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Get rid of corporations and you probably wouldn't need them. The issue is, once the world went to artificial entities this caused considerable distortions in traditional markets.
 
#310
#310
Cod said:
Unions are corrupt, I've worked with and around unions quite a bit over the last 30+ years and I've never ran across a "good" one.
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What does this even mean? I'll agree that a lot of union leadership are corrupt, but the unions themselves? How so? I'm a member of a union and I hate the leadership, but I don't understand what you mean by your statement.
 
#311
#311
SpaceCoastVol said:
What does this even mean? I'll agree that a lot of union leadership are corrupt, but the unions themselves? How so? I'm a member of a union and I hate the leadership, but I don't understand what you mean by your statement.
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Union ppl aren't the nicest ppl to work around, what I do they don't want to do but always interfering with what I do. Cut cords, hoses, shut off equipment etc. etc. etc the list goes on typical small time mob ****. Minor inconveniences but it costs money and time.

I don't have a soft spot for unions, just me. Do I think myself and any union guy could sit down and have a beer yes, but put them in room with other union ppl and they get stupid especially when they think you're trespassing on their stuff.

Just my experience
 
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#312
#312
KB5252 said:
Some people make minimum wage....... They aren't on the bottom, there are a few rungs on the ladder below them to the bottom.
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They're all at the bottom, if you don't know you're at the top.... you are the bottom. Everything in the middle has or is going away.
 
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#313
#313
LSU-SIU said:
Get rid of corporations and you probably wouldn't need them. The issue is, once the world went to artificial entities this caused considerable distortions in traditional markets.
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Won't happen. Government loves Corporations because they can regulate and tax them. (i.e. Control them).
 
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#314
#314
volbound1700 said:
Won't happen. Government loves Corporations because they can regulate and tax them. (i.e. Control them).
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Oh, I am not saying anyone is getting rid of them... post 1900 society would come to an end. All I am saying is unions are more or less the solution to the problem humans created. Than humans complain about the solutions they created.
 
#315
#315
Cod said:
Union ppl aren't the nicest ppl to work around, what I do they don't want to do but always interfering with what I do. Cut cords, hoses, shut off equipment etc. etc. etc the list goes on typical small time mob ****. Minor inconveniences but it costs money and time.

I don't have a soft spot for unions, just me. Do I think myself and any union guy could sit down and have a beer yes, but put them in room with other union ppl and they get stupid especially when they think you're trespassing on their stuff.

Just my experience
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There is a lot of vagueness in this response.
 
#316
#316
SpaceCoastVol said:
There is a lot of vagueness in this response.
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I'm not in a union, when I'm there doing my specialized work that I do that they do not want to perform or have any part of they constantly ******* with me. (wow you can't even space out a cuss word lol)

They don't want me there, but they don't want to do the work, so they deploy ****** practices of typical union ******** when dealing with non union ppl.

Thing is they need me there, but they're so blinded by their "I'M UNION STRONG UNION PROUD" ******** they can't see it.

That's it, bad subject should of just kept my mouth shut. There was a time this country needed unions but that time has come, passed and was buried with Hoffa..... just my opinion and life experiences.
 
#317
#317
Cod said:
I'm not in a union, when I'm there doing my specialized work that I do that they do not want to perform or have any part of they constantly ******* with me. (wow you can't even space out a cuss word lol)

They don't want me there, but they don't want to do the work, so they deploy ****** practices of typical union ******** when dealing with non union ppl.

Thing is they need me there, but they're so blinded by their "I'M UNION STRONG UNION PROUD" ******** they can't see it.

That's it, bad subject should of just kept my mouth shut. There was a time this country needed unions but that time has come, passed and was buried with Hoffa..... just my opinion and life experiences.
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What are their reasons for messing with you? Why don't they want you there? I don't buy the 'union strong union proud' thing as being their 'reason'. What is it that you do that they are not interested in doing? Is it highly specialized?

I hope you will continue the discussion because it is very interesting (to me anyway). I was forced to join the union when I got hired. Thru collective bargaining, my compensation has been very good for most of my career. They lost a fumble when my company declared bankruptcy, and they recently stabbed me in the back (which is why I resigned from full membership). But they have had their purpose. I hate the union, and I despise the leadership.. But if we didn't have it, I wouldn't have made half of what I did over my career.
 
#321
#321
SpaceCoastVol said:
What are their reasons for messing with you? Why don't they want you there? I don't buy the 'union strong union proud' thing as being their 'reason'. What is it that you do that they are not interested in doing? Is it highly specialized?

I hope you will continue the discussion because it is very interesting (to me anyway). I was forced to join the union when I got hired. Thru collective bargaining, my compensation has been very good for most of my career. They lost a fumble when my company declared bankruptcy, and they recently stabbed me in the back (which is why I resigned from full membership). But they have had their purpose. I hate the union, and I despise the leadership.. But if we didn't have it, I wouldn't have made half of what I did over my career.
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I can't speak for Cod, but it sounds like he works in construction so I will speak my two bits.

we see it a good bit on job sites where Union sub contractors will jack up the work done by non-union sub contractors simply because they aren't union.

Some times it just petty stealing loose equipment, or small pieces of hardware, stuff that happens on a job site anyway, but only seems to happen to non-union subs when unions are on site.

the middle is a kinda vicious non-compliance. when a trade comes in after others have worked there is almost always going to be some overlap. framers frame the walls, and plumbers have to come in and cut the walls for pipe. good plumbers are going to minimize that interference, and are responsible for making any needed repairs. Unions will go out of their way to rip up the wood framing as much as possible if the framers aren't union. and typically with the contracts on union work it is much more difficult to get unions to repair the work or give fair value for the fix, that it is a non-union sub.

the worst is straight up violence and stealing equipment. multiple thousands of dollars worth of stuff stolen stuff, not just the loose hammers. anything that isn't nailed down they will take if it isn't "union approved", which typically means made by a union. they will tell the GC they had to remove it because it was in the way or a danger or whatever clear BS they can come up with. and that's if you can prove it was them taking it, but again when its only non-union work getting hit, its pretty clear. it will even get to the point that the unions will go after non-union made work trucks, slashing tires, smashing windows, B&E. usually when this happens it turns to straight up fights because its hard to hide. if the cops get involved the union lawyers swarm the place and bury it legalese bs, and most non-union subs don't have the money to fight them, even if they can prove it.

it is very much the mafia. you don't park near them, don't eat near them, don't question them etc etc.
 
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#322
#322
LouderVol said:
I can't speak for Cod, but it sounds like he works in construction so I will speak my two bits.

we see it a good bit on job sites where Union sub contractors will jack up the work done by non-union sub contractors simply because they aren't union.

Some times it just petty stealing loose equipment, or small pieces of hardware, stuff that happens on a job site anyway, but only seems to happen to non-union subs when unions are on site.

the middle is a kinda vicious non-compliance. when a trade comes in after others have worked there is almost always going to be some overlap. framers frame the walls, and plumbers have to come in and cut the walls for pipe. good plumbers are going to minimize that interference, and are responsible for making any needed repairs. Unions will go out of their way to rip up the wood framing as much as possible if the framers aren't union. and typically with the contracts on union work it is much more difficult to get unions to repair the work or give fair value for the fix, that it is a non-union sub.

the worst is straight up violence and stealing equipment. multiple thousands of dollars worth of stuff stolen stuff, not just the loose hammers. anything that isn't nailed down they will take if it isn't "union approved", which typically means made by a union. they will tell the GC they had to remove it because it was in the way or a danger or whatever clear BS they can come up with. and that's if you can prove it was them taking it, but again when its only non-union work getting hit, its pretty clear. it will even get to the point that the unions will go after non-union made work trucks, slashing tires, smashing windows, B&E. usually when this happens it turns to straight up fights because its hard to hide. if the cops get involved the union lawyers swarm the place and bury it legalese bs, and most non-union subs don't have the money to fight them, even if they can prove it.

it is very much the mafia. you don't park near them, don't eat near them, don't question them etc etc.
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The horror stories I've heard about inefficiencies and destruction from unionized warehouse workers and teamsters make me shiver. There's no need for them any longer. None.

Public sector unions (i.e. postal and teacher's unions) need to be disbanded and barred forever.
 
#323
#323
ButchPlz said:
The horror stories I've heard about inefficiencies and destruction from unionized warehouse workers and teamsters make me shiver. There's no need for them any longer. None.

Public sector unions (i.e. postal and teacher's unions) need to be disbanded and barred forever.
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we have had to declare a building unsafe due to the "work" some union plumbers did.

We ALWAYS route our plumbing in 2x6 studs so there is enough wood left to hold up the wall. Union guys had been raising a big stink about the framers. when they came in and ran the few horizontal runs they had, they cut completely thru every other 2x6, the "other" ones they bore a 4" hole in a 5.5" piece of wood. and this was for a 2" or 2.5" pipe.

no reasonable justification for it given.
 
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#324
#324
The most positive thing about unions IMO is they create a standard, you know when you hire a union (whatever trade) they will have the capability to do the job, the bad thing about them is that standard will typically not be exceeded. If a guy is capable of wiring 2 panels a day but the standard is one, peer pressure will mean one panel per day.
 
#325
#325
Wireless1 said:
The most positive thing about unions IMO is they create a standard, you know when you hire a union (whatever trade) they will have the capability to do the job, the bad thing about them is that standard will typically not be exceeded. If a guy is capable of wiring 2 panels a day but the standard is one, peer pressure will mean one panel per day.
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Friend of mine is a union pipefitter and apparently training and work quality vary greatly between the different trade unions.
 
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