Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

[82_VOL_83]

Yes, I voted for the Muslim guy in 2008...doesn't bother me any. Christian, Muslum, Hindu, Catholic, Baptist, Jew....they all fine. But absolutely, no Methodists!

Except islam is pretty much intolerant of anyone that is muslim.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Fought for independence to get away from being forced into adhering to certain doctrines.

I don't see what the big deal is about putting in a moment of silence and letting those who pray, pray.

You act like they're 'taking prayer away from you,' when they're really not. Just because some of you don't shut your damn mouth or quit complaining during the game long enough to get a prayer in, doesn't mean you can't use some other time to pray.

It's some big travesty that people are getting you to not have a led prayer at a football game because it's taking away your rights. Yet, when other people don't like being a part of it, or subjected to it, too damn bad... They're the minority.

Why is having the option to pray or not pray such a big deal? Welcome to the south, I suppose.

Now go home....Why is it that you can't just stand there and observe your own moment of silence while a prayer is led. Why is it the minority must insist that their opinions are the ones that have to be followed. Just stand there and be quiet, it doesn't last more than 30 seconds, however, that is probably an eternity to you. If you would listen to the prayer, I think you will find that it is mostly that it is an injury free, well played game. Just stand there and think good thoughts, and do whatever it is you do to hope everyone comes through the game without injury.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Except islam is pretty much intolerant of anyone that is muslim.

How do they feel about the Methodists?

 

[82_VOL_83]

A public university is a university that is predominantly funded by public means through a national or subnational government. Thus, your concepts of 'government' and 'outsiders' are misguided.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1962, in Engel v. Vitale, that official organization, sponsorship, or endorsement of school prayer is forbidden by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution in public school. Teachers and school officials may not lead classes in prayer, but prayer is permitted at voluntary religious clubs, and students are not prohibited from praying themselves. Other rulings have forbidden public, organized prayer at school assemblies, sporting events, and similar school-sponsored activities.

Public moments of silence in the United States both arise from and contribute to this debate over prayer and the separation of church and state. A moment of silence lacks any specific religious formulation, and therefore it has been presented as a way of creating reflection and respect without endorsing any particular sect. Colin Powell, a longtime advocate, has recommended a simple moment of silence at the start of each school day. Further, he states that students could use this interval to pray, meditate, contemplate or study.

Seems like a moment of silence would allow everyone to pray or not pray. Don't think a football game is a venue to ensure all conform to Christianity... right?

Only Christians pray? Say that in the middle east and you won't be around long. I guess you aren't old enough to remember that the prayers used to end "Shalom and amen".

 

[Jax_Vol]

Shalom

 

[OWB]

There should be a 30 minute pregame prayer, followed by everyone firing their guns in the air. #Amurcah

 

[VolsMcGee]

Now go home....Why is it that you can't just stand there and observe your own moment of silence while a prayer is led. Why is it the minority must insist that their opinions are the ones that have to be followed. Just stand there and be quiet, it doesn't last more than 30 seconds, however, that is probably an eternity to you. If you would listen to the prayer, I think you will find that it is mostly that it is an injury free, well played game. Just stand there and think good thoughts, and do whatever it is you do to hope everyone comes through the game without injury.

I think you're missing the point. It's not that the minority want to press on the majority, they just want respect. I'm sure they would be fine with a moment of silence, but it's an actual prayer, with the Lords Prayer tacked on.

Takes this for example, what if you were at a game, and then suddenly they started to do a Islamic prayer? I'm sure that would be incredibly uncomfortable for you, I know it would be for me. But what if somebody said, "Quit complaining, just get on your hands and knees, face Mecca, and think about whatever the hell you want to." I know I would be pretty unhappy about that.

Again, the issue here is about respect. The fans that want to keep the prayer feels like the minority don't respect their beliefs, while the minority just want the respect to participate in their own spirituality their own way.

I think we can all come to some kind of understanding and reach a point of middle ground. The sad part of world today is that we are more increasingly resisting compromise, as if it's a sign of giving up. It's not, it's a sign of maturity and working to do what's best for everyone, not just what we want.

 

[volbeast33]

I think you're missing the point. It's not that the minority want to press on the majority, they just want respect. I'm sure they would be fine with a moment of silence, but it's an actual prayer, with the Lords Prayer tacked on.

Takes this for example, what if you were at a game, and then suddenly they started to do a Islamic prayer? I'm sure that would be incredibly uncomfortable for you, I know it would be for me. But what if somebody said, "Quit complaining, just get on your hands and knees, face Mecca, and think about whatever the hell you want to." I know I would be pretty unhappy about that.

Again, the issue here is about respect. The fans that want to keep the prayer feels like the minority don't respect their beliefs, while the minority just want the respect to participate in their own spirituality their own way.

I think we can all come to some kind of understanding and reach a point of middle ground. The sad part of world today is that we are more increasingly resisting
compromise, as if it's a sign of giving up. It's not, it's a sign of maturity and working to do what's best for everyone, not just what we want.

It's not about respect, it's about Americans growing a pair....there is nothing wrong about an opening game prayer asking for the players to be healthy and good sportsmanship...it's not just a Christian prayer as there have been several different denominations prayers. There are rules and they do not allow it to be ceremonious like the Islam example you used.

Here recently there have been stories where you can't call Christmas Christmas....Halloween party at school cancelled bc it offended wiccans....sports leagues where everyone plays and no score kept....red ink outlawed at a school bc it hurt the kids feelings....daddy daughter dance cancelled bc it offended moms!!!

Where does it all stop?

 

[Jax_Vol]

I don't object to praying five time per game with everyone facing Mecca



We could use it as a way to avoid burning timeouts in the second half. Every time the other team starts driving, time for a prayer.

 

[Vol_Maul]

Except islam is pretty much intolerant of anyone that is muslim.

There have never been intolerant Christians.

 

[Nashvol2]

It's not about respect, it's about Americans growing a pair....there is nothing wrong about an opening game prayer asking for the players to be healthy and good sportsmanship...it's not just a Christian prayer as there have been several different denominations prayers. There are rules and they do not allow it to be ceremonious like the Islam example you used.

Here recently there have been stories where you can't call Christmas Christmas....Halloween party at school cancelled bc it offended wiccans....sports leagues where everyone plays and no score kept....red ink outlawed at a school bc it hurt the kids feelings....daddy daughter dance cancelled bc it offended moms!!!

Where does it all stop?

Amen brother. It only ends with two possibilities if you ask me.

 

[AtlantaVol]

With our kicking situation and all the 3rd and longs you could never take prayer out of Neyland Stadium.

You, sir, have won the internets.

 

[VolsMcGee]

It's not about respect, it's about Americans growing a pair....there is nothing wrong about an opening game prayer asking for the players to be healthy and good sportsmanship...it's not just a Christian prayer as there have been several different denominations prayers. There are rules and they do not allow it to be ceremonious like the Islam example you used.

Here recently there have been stories where you can't call Christmas Christmas....Halloween party at school cancelled bc it offended wiccans....sports leagues where everyone plays and no score kept....red ink outlawed at a school bc it hurt the kids feelings....daddy daughter dance cancelled bc it offended moms!!!

Where does it all stop?

Except that it is. They said the entire Lord's prayer during the prayer.

Look, it's one thing be against the move toward a society that is pressing politically correct activities. That's fine. My issue is respecting all UT fans. There many religions and cultures that come to these games. One my friends has a roommate that's Hindu. Another kid in my class is Jewish. Both went to the game. Why do they have to be part of a Christian prayer? And the excuse that "they don't have to pray during the game" doesn't work. People all around us were giving them dirty looks, pointing at us, and generally being disrespectful. It's not like they were being rude during the prayer either, they were just calmly standing there and not reciting the Lords Prayer like everyone else around us. I would like for them to be able to go to a game without having to experience such a thing again.

 

[qb19]

They can take the word of God out but they can't take God out..He is always with us..Another 20 yrs and this counrty will not be as we know it today, The white man is slowly becoming a minority

That worries you does it?

Fearful that you (the "white" man) might get the short end of the stick?

Hopefully in 20 years people will be referred to as "human" not white or yellow or red or black.

 

[O&W]

If you read the article, it says that the 6th federal circuit made a ruling in 1997 banning this sort of activity. The 6th circuit, sadly, is Tennessee's circuit, and that means that this ruling is controlling. Fighting this in court will be a waste of money, regardless of how wrong you think it is.

I don't mind observing a moment of silence, in lieu of someone else telling me how to pray. I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but consider it in reverse. What if a Muslim was praying to Allah on the field, I bet the Christians who feel this sort of thing is ridiculous would have a total different opinion then.

Again I say that I have no problem with the prayer in general, but every time I have been to a UT game I have wondered how long it would go on before it was legally challenged.

So many people pretend that they would turn their back on the University for changing a denominational prayer to a moment of silence (so you can pray in your own way), but I don't see anything wrong with it. They aren't removing God from anywhere, he answer's prayers, you don't have to have someone else pray for you to talk to him (unless you are Catholic, but these weren't Catholic priests praying at UT).

Just my two cents.

Do you know anyhthing about the Catholic faith?

 

[qb19]

:machgun:IF WE DONT HOLD GODS WORD TO THE CENTER OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA THIS COUNTRY AS WE KNOW IT WILL FALL FLAT ON ITS FACE!!! IT IS ON THE WAY OW !!!!! WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!! WE NEED GOD MORE NOW THAN EVER..... GOD,GUNS,GUTS AND GLORY MADE AMERICA WE NEED ALL FOUR!!!!

Peoria Illinois...no pressure. It's all on you now.:worship:

 

[Captain3484]

Dear Hater,

Your 18,500 members are less than were in our student section. Please concentrate on the problems of Wisconsin instead of bothering Tennessee people with your desire to butt into other people's business. If we used the same prayer ever week, I could see your point, but we do not! We try to include many facets of prayer.

Stop sipping on the haterade, hater.

Sincerely,

Lover not a fighter (hater).

 

[volbeast33]

Except that it is. They said the entire Lord's prayer during the prayer.

Look, it's one thing be against the move toward a society that is pressing politically correct activities. That's fine. My issue is respecting all UT fans. There many religions and cultures that come to these games. One my friends has a roommate that's Hindu. Another kid in my class is Jewish. Both went to the game. Why do they have to be part of a Christian prayer? And the excuse that "they don't have to pray during the game" doesn't work. People all around us were giving them dirty looks, pointing at us, and generally being disrespectful. It's not like they were being rude during the prayer either, they were just calmly standing there and not reciting the Lords Prayer like everyone else around us. I would like for them to be able to go to a game without having to experience such a thing again.

Do you go to the games weekly.....they don't have the same representative each week and use different denominations each week. Last yr some denomination talked about spiders and bugs.....made me laugh.

See this is what I am talking about either you are lying or need to grow a pair and quit being so insecure that you think people are worried about if you and your friends pray or not.

I go to every single home game.......I didn't even realize the lords prayer was said before the game....I definitely didn't recite it and wasn't many in my section that did if any....I do take my hat off during the prayer out of respect but there were some that didn't and I still didn't see people pointing and going on like you claim they did.....if anyone was giving your friends a hard time, I'm positive it.had nothing at all with not saying the prayer.

Now if that group wanted to ban the boys of fall being played during the game or to stop the band from singing living on a prayer....I could get behind that bc those two things greatly offend me LOL

 

[emzeeee]

Do you go to the games weekly.....they don't have the same representative each week and use different denominations each week. Last yr some denomination talked about spiders and bugs.....made me laugh.

See this is what I am talking about either you are lying or need to grow a pair and quit being so insecure that you think people are worried about if you and your friends pray or not.

I go to every single home game.......I didn't even realize the lords prayer was said before the game....I definitely didn't recite it and wasn't many in my section that did if any....I do take my hat off during the prayer out of respect but there were some that didn't and I still didn't see people pointing and going on like you claim they did.....if anyone was giving your friends a hard time, I'm positive it.had nothing at all with not saying the prayer.

Now if that group wanted to ban the boys of fall being played during the game or to stop the band from singing living on a prayer....I could get behind that bc those two things greatly offend me LOL

You guys just don't get it.

It is easier for you to pray during a moment of silence, rather than make it a religious moment. And it doesn't matter what the message is (e.g. good health, safe play, etc.). It's still a prayer. It holds absolutely no weight with a rapidly growing number of people who have been disenfranchised by large religions, or have had no belief from the beginning.

Also, stop acting like this country is going to hell because religion is being removed from a lot of places. 'In God We Trust' wasn't adopted until the 50s and if you had any sense of history, you'd quit talking like Muslims are a) 100% violent people (hint: they're not) and b) Catholics have never done anything violent. Countless wars and slayings have been done on 'religious' merit.

In fact, it was some of the good old church going boys down here spent a lot of time lynching black people and the white people who did anything to protect them. Real peaceful. And before you say 'not real Christians,' remember that feeling the next time you trash talk an entire group of people like Muslims for being violent.

God is too busy watching multiple wars; daily murders and atrocities; children being kidnapped, raped and killed; and wondering what to do about the NFL replacement refs. He doesn't care about Tennessee football. And a prayer that a) 30% of the stadium doesn't take part in and b) another large percentage are too drunk or don't have any belief behind the words does nothing. Half of the people offended by this 'removal of prayer' don't even go to church as much as they spout on about. (And don't say 'I GO EVERY WEEK' because I don't care, most don't)

Also, get over it. It's not up to you. It's a law that regardless of the private status of the UT AD, a publicly funded state university should adhere to. And the fact that UT is wasting more money with a budget deficit should be angering you more than anything. Because you won't give up 30 seconds of half-assed words to a God most of you disobey on an hourly basis, the university gets worse off.

tl;dr Religion is your right. It's also my right to not have to be a part of it. Eventually you'll move forward out of this southern time warp.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Pray these few seconds and please PRAY NO MORE!

 

[volbeast33]

You guys just don't get it.

It is easier for you to pray during a moment of silence, rather than make it a religious moment. And it doesn't matter what the message is (e.g. good health, safe play, etc.). It's still a prayer. It holds absolutely no weight with a rapidly growing number of people who have been disenfranchised by large religions, or have had no belief from the beginning.

Also, stop acting like this country is going to hell because religion is being removed from a lot of places. 'In God We Trust' wasn't adopted until the 50s and if you had any sense of history, you'd quit talking like Muslims are a) 100% violent people (hint: they're not) and b) Catholics have never done anything violent. Countless wars and slayings have been done on 'religious' merit.

In fact, it was some of the good old church going boys down here spent a lot of time lynching black people and the white people who did anything to protect them. Real peaceful. And before you say 'not real Christians,' remember that feeling the next time you trash talk an entire group of people like Muslims for being violent.

God is too busy watching multiple wars; daily murders and atrocities; children being kidnapped, raped and killed; and wondering what to do about the NFL replacement refs. He doesn't care about Tennessee football. And a prayer that a) 30% of the stadium doesn't take part in and b) another large percentage are too drunk or don't have any belief behind the words does nothing. Half of the people offended by this 'removal of prayer' don't even go to church as much as they spout on about. (And don't say 'I GO EVERY WEEK' because I don't care, most don't)

Also, get over it. It's not up to you. It's a law that regardless of the private status of the UT AD, a publicly funded state university should adhere to. And the fact that UT is wasting more money with a budget deficit should be angering you more than anything. Because you won't give up 30 seconds of half-assed words to a God most of you disobey on an hourly basis, the university gets worse off.

tl;dr Religion is your right. It's also my right to not have to be a part of it. Eventually you'll move forward out of this southern time warp.

Oh I get the people doing the complaining don't have one nut between them....if they are really that offended by a thirty second invocation, how in the world do they function in everyday life?

If having a Muslim pray at one of the games will make you stop crying, I am all for it.

About my church attendance, I have attended church before but don't attend on even a semi-regular basis right now.its not about religion to me, it is about people being way too sensitive to anything in life....America is taking a huge step back bc of it.

You are right I am angry about my university having to spend money to fight this frivilous but I blame the people responsible....the Staff and students that supposedly contacted this group. They should be ashamed of themselves.....I have never been prouder of my university than I am now for having a backbone.

It's not a law, it's a court order based on their interpretation of how we perform our invocation and how it relates to the separation of church and state.

If you don't like the south, get to steppin, we don't need you here.

 

[carolinaviking]

Didn't someone, god or Jesus, tell you to go into your closet and pray in solitude, away from the public? Wasn't the point of that commandment to prevent prayer becoming a political activity? Now look what has happened here. The very public prayer of 106,000 people has become a political nightmare. People talking about the majority vs the minority. Gimme a break. That is exactly the kind of divisive mindset that public prayer creates. Is it any wonder we have politicians and other people of power praying in public but committing sins in private? Obviously, they don't really believe but they want you to think they believe.

Make it a moment of silence so that the Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and all the others can take that moment to think whatever they want to.

 

[VolsMcGee]

Oh I get the people doing the complaining don't have one nut between them....if they are really that offended by a thirty second invocation, how in the world do they function in everyday life?

If having a Muslim pray at one of the games will make you stop crying, I am all for it.

About my church attendance, I have attended church before but don't attend on even a semi-regular basis right now.its not about religion to me, it is about people being way too sensitive to anything in life....America is taking a huge step back bc of it.

You are right I am angry about my university having to spend money to fight this frivilous but I blame the people responsible....the Staff and students that supposedly contacted this group. They should be ashamed of themselves.....I have never been prouder of my university than I am now for having a backbone.

It's not a law, it's a court order based on their interpretation of how we perform our invocation and how it relates to the separation of church and state.

If you don't like the south, get to steppin, we don't need you here.

So people who don't agree with the prayer don't have testicles? That's a nice way to look at society. So, anybody who has a different opinion from you get's shut out? That's gonna ensure that we progress with the rest of America.

I happen to love to the south, love it here at the University of Tennessee, and love the Vols. That's why I hate when people refuse to respect the opinions and beliefs of others. It paints our University in a negative light, and gives people reason around the country reconsider going here because of an atmosphere of bigotry. You can say, "I don't care, if they don't like it then they can geeet ouuuut," which just makes you look like a stereotype of this guy.

If you don't like America you can get out - YouTube

This isn't the type of image that I want associated with our university, because believe it or not, UT has a very diverse student body composed of people from all sorts of races, ethnicities, religions, and beliefs.

Sure, say I don't have balls. Whatever. Personally, I think it takes a pretty big pair to stand up for what I believe in when everybody else doesn't want to hear it.

 

[VolnTEARS?]

As someone who is very serious about being a Christian & about knowing the One who created me I'd like to say that I understand the dilemma in this country. The question, "what if a Muslim prayer was being said?," is often asked. And it has merit.

But let me ask.

If you, as an atheist, a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, or a "nothing" were to go to a soccer game in Kuwait & they had a Muslim prayer before the game how would that affect you?

As a Christian I'd just stand there. I certainly wouldn't pray to Allah. But neither would I try and get a law passed in Kuwait to keep them from praying to Allah.

I'd just tell 'em about Jesus.

 

[volbeast33]

Didn't someone, god or Jesus, tell you to go into your closet and pray in solitude, away from the public? Wasn't the point of that commandment to prevent prayer becoming a political activity? Now look what has happened here. The very public prayer of 106,000 people has become a political nightmare. People talking about the majority vs the minority. Gimme a break. That is exactly the kind of divisive mindset that public prayer creates. Is it any wonder we have politicians and other people of power praying in public but committing sins in private? Obviously, they don't really believe but they want you to think they believe.

Make it a moment of silence so that the Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists and all the others can take that moment to think whatever they want to.

The only problem with that is that at high school in America had a moment of silence before graduation ceremonies and someone was offended and protested against that.