Praying Before Game WILL NOT BE STOPPED AT UT (merged)

#1,228
#1,228
Hoss Diesel said:
I wish we could pray to my lord the Flying spaghetti monster
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Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg
 
#1,233
#1,233
WhiteRhino said:
Is there a minor league in praying? How does one get to pro status?:eek:lol:
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The minor league is a good way for a majority of professional prayers to make it to the big leagues, but everybody knows that the most successful prayers are the ones that get drafted in holy lottery.

It's interesting because this year, the mormons pulled off some kind of miracle and got the first pick of the draft. There's a lot of discussion on who they'll pick. Most people are predicting Romney of course, but if they were smart, they would pick Cecilia Gimenez, the artist who did the fantastic restoration of Jesus

_62447895_frescopic.gif

















I'm drunk
 
#1,234
#1,234
VolsMcGee said:
The minor league is a good way for a majority of professional prayers to make it to the big leagues, but everybody knows that the most successful prayers are the ones that get drafted in holy lottery.

It's interesting because this year, the mormons pulled off some kind of miracle and got the first pick of the draft. There's a lot of discussion on who they'll pick. Most people are predicting Romney of course, but if they were smart, they would pick Cecilia Gimenez, the artist who did the fantastic restoration of Jesus

_62447895_frescopic.gif

















I'm drunk
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I read that story and saw the picture, but where did they get her from? She made Jesus look like Shoop da Whoop! ( Disclaimer, my daughter told me this and apparently shoop is an internet meme) If I wasn't an interwebs noob, I would try to link the pic.:ermm:
 
#1,236
#1,236
OuterBanksVol said:
The concept of separating church and state is often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke (1632–1704). According to his principle of the social contract, Locke argued that the government lacked authority in the realm of individual conscience, as this was something rational people could not cede to the government for it or others to control. For Locke, this created a natural right in the liberty of conscience, which he argued must therefore remain protected from any government authority. These views on religious tolerance and the importance of individual conscience, along with his social contract, became particularly influential in the American colonies and the drafting of the United States Constitution.

Thus, you are correct, and therefore, in agreement with the majority of the secular population: The government (UT state-funded school) should not meddle with the church (mandate a prayer during any state-funded event such as UT football games).

Another way to look at things is as follows: If you lived in Saudi Arabia, would you want the soccer games to begin with everyone on all fours pointing towards Mecca and praying to Allah?

Or... would you just prefer everyone does their own religious (or non-religious) thing?
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A state funded school doesn't make the university 'the government'. So horrible example.

If a school wants to have a prayer before the game it's no outside entities business as to whether they have one or not. You don't like that UT has a prayer before the games, don't go, don't send your kids there, etc. But this nonsense of telling people how they can and can not worship by a bunch of outsiders is one of the same reasons this country originally fought for independence over 230 years ago.
 
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#1,238
#1,238
Truth said:
Separate church and state. You people probably think evolution is fake.
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Why, because you say so? Another delusional nimrod that thinks his opinion trumps everyone else's.

And way to assume and put words in people's mouth with your second statement.
 
#1,239
#1,239
sanddune50 said:
A state funded school doesn't make the university 'the government'. So horrible example.
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govt funding sure muddies the waters a bit don't you think?

sanddune50 said:
But this nonsense of telling people how they can and can not worship by a bunch of outsiders is one of the same reasons this country originally fought for independence over 230 years ago.
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that was never the point
 
#1,240
#1,240
I thought the Establishment Clause's purpose was to prevent the government, initially Congress and later the states as well, from making laws that force people to follow one religion. Well, there is no law that mandates prayer before football games, but the Establishment Clause has been interpreted by courts to apply. At least, that's how I understand it.

What bothers me the most has already been posted by someone else - that this is an out-of-state organization coming in to essentially tell us what to do. And, their agenda has nothing to do with protecting people's rights and everything to do with advancing nontheism. This isn't an organization of constitutional rights lawyers looking out for everyone; it's an organization of atheists, agnostics, and skeptics.
 
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#1,241
#1,241
sanddune50 said:
A state funded school doesn't make the university 'the government'. So horrible example.

If a school wants to have a prayer before the game it's no outside entities business as to whether they have one or not. You don't like that UT has a prayer before the games, don't go, don't send your kids there, etc. But this nonsense of telling people how they can and can not worship by a bunch of outsiders is one of the same reasons this country originally fought for independence over 230 years ago.
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Being a state school, it is their university every bit as much as yours. We are not talking about a private entity here. A state university is, never in its existence, in a position to respond to people in that manner which you describe.
 
#1,242
#1,242
I think I'd feel differently if the complaint had been launched by a follower of a different religion who didn't want to hear a religion besides their own. Since it's a group of atheists, it feels like it's their "(non) religion" winning out over the majority's.
 
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#1,244
#1,244
ukvols said:
I think I'd feel differently if the complaint had been launched by a follower of a different religion who didn't want to hear a religion besides their own. Since it's a group of atheists, it feels like it's their "(non) religion" winning out over the majority's.
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That was actually what happened. They say they can't step in unless someone actually complains about it locally, which was done. Not that it matters. I just can't seem to care about this.
 
#1,245
#1,245
sanddune50 said:
A state funded school doesn't make the university 'the government'. So horrible example.

If a school wants to have a prayer before the game it's no outside entities business as to whether they have one or not. You don't like that UT has a prayer before the games, don't go, don't send your kids there, etc. But this nonsense of telling people how they can and can not worship by a bunch of outsiders is one of the same reasons this country originally fought for independence over 230 years ago.
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Fought for independence to get away from being forced into adhering to certain doctrines.

I don't see what the big deal is about putting in a moment of silence and letting those who pray, pray.

You act like they're 'taking prayer away from you,' when they're really not. Just because some of you don't shut your damn mouth or quit complaining during the game long enough to get a prayer in, doesn't mean you can't use some other time to pray.

It's some big travesty that people are getting you to not have a led prayer at a football game because it's taking away your rights. Yet, when other people don't like being a part of it, or subjected to it, too damn bad... They're the minority.

Why is having the option to pray or not pray such a big deal? Welcome to the south, I suppose.
 
#1,247
#1,247
sanddune50 said:
A state funded school doesn't make the university 'the government'. So horrible example.

If a school wants to have a prayer before the game it's no outside entities business as to whether they have one or not. You don't like that UT has a prayer before the games, don't go, don't send your kids there, etc. But this nonsense of telling people how they can and can not worship by a bunch of outsiders is one of the same reasons this country originally fought for independence over 230 years ago.
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A public university is a university that is predominantly funded by public means through a national or subnational government. Thus, your concepts of 'government' and 'outsiders' are misguided.

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1962, in Engel v. Vitale, that official organization, sponsorship, or endorsement of school prayer is forbidden by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution in public school. Teachers and school officials may not lead classes in prayer, but prayer is permitted at voluntary religious clubs, and students are not prohibited from praying themselves. Other rulings have forbidden public, organized prayer at school assemblies, sporting events, and similar school-sponsored activities.

Public moments of silence in the United States both arise from and contribute to this debate over prayer and the separation of church and state. A moment of silence lacks any specific religious formulation, and therefore it has been presented as a way of creating reflection and respect without endorsing any particular sect. Colin Powell, a longtime advocate, has recommended a simple moment of silence at the start of each school day. Further, he states that students could use this interval to pray, meditate, contemplate or study.

Seems like a moment of silence would allow everyone to pray or not pray. Don't think a football game is a venue to ensure all conform to Christianity... right?
 
#1,248
#1,248
Vol_Maul said:
That was actually what happened. They say they can't step in unless someone actually complains about it locally, which was done. Not that it matters. I just can't seem to care about this.
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Interesting, thanks.
I wonder if it was a Vol fan, as it would be easy to just send a representative to a game.
 
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