President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

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#7,551
LSU-SIU said:
You're already assuming there is no probably cause which does happen from time to time and is corrected with process. You are basically saying every time someone is arrest there is no probable cause and their civil rights are violated.
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The handwringing is ridiculous, and the deportations continue to move steadily forward.
 
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#7,552
utvolpj said:
There are plenty of examples of law enforcement violating the rights of citizens all across the country. It's going to harken with this "deport them all" charge that Trump jackets seem to love. It's inevitable that they're will be violations in these round up efforts. The damages will be paid from tax dollars
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When it “harkens” show us. So far it’s just dystopian propaganda yes?
Who is “them” in deport them all?
Who said it or did what to make you think “them all” under your definition of “them”?
 
#7,554
#7,554
DC_Vol said:
I don’t think anyone is advocating the idea of checking people’s papers as they are walking down the street.
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I'm not sure its illegal for the federal government to ask for someone's papers, the issue imo is whether they can detain you. Just like the police don't need a warrant to get into your car if you give them permission. (maybe I have a different point of view)

Failures lead to success, if you learn from them and improve.
 
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#7,557
#7,557
LSU-SIU said:
If they have probable cause there isn't anything wrong with it.

How about this, when they start rounding up millions of innocent Americans and putting them in camp than you can come back and say how right you were. Until that time, you sound very unreasonable.

Hey guys, this might happen. Hey guys, that might happen. Well, they might happen...

This is why there is process, to work out the issues to where wrongs are made right as much as possible..... life is not perfect.
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Your threshold for worrying about govt rights violations is much higher than mine. I don't need millions of examples to finally realize there's an issue
 
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#7,559
#7,559
hjeagle1vol said:
So what are you calling illegally detained then?
If someone is suspected of a crime such as being in country illegally not legal?
And yes I get and agree with your dystopian nightmares that could happen given a complete breakdown in American society, but this simply isn’t the case. ICE isn’t randomly pulling people over for detainment.
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The boldened is where we need to focus. Look up the legalities involved in a Terry stop. (see Terry v Ohio) If the scenario is:

Cop to person just walking down the street:I want to see your ID.
Person:For what purpose?
Cop:Cuz I asked.
Person:In the absence of articulable suspicion that a crime is or about to be committed you can GFY.

Then said person is actually in the right. If these people (whoever you may be referencing) can have ICE agents present real and articulable reason for suspicion then so be it.

I think we've had some people talking past each other a little on this one.
 
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#7,561
#7,561
utvolpj said:
It absolutely is without probable cause. Not sure why there's confusion over this
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You are making a preposterous argument. If ICE truthfully believes that you are an illegal immigrant, then they have probable cause. Stops are made all the time by law enforcement personnel that have probable cause in which the person questioned is subsequently released with no charges. That doesn't mean that probable cause never existed.
 
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I think the issue of deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes is far less the concern than is whether it is done in a coherent fashion. Its not a race and you have to admit there is an element of pandemonium to it.
 
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#7,564
Vol423 said:
You are making a preposterous argument. If ICE truthfully believes that you are an illegal immigrant, then they have probable cause. Stops are made all the time by law enforcement personnel that have probable cause in which the petson questioned is released with no charges.
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I would say he basically down to saying all arrest are illegal, more or less. (which would also pertain to non-immigration type crimes as well)
 
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#7,566
lawgator1 said:
I think the issue of deporting illegal immigrants who have committed crimes is far less the concern than is whether it is done in a coherent fashion. Its not a race and you have to admit there is an element of pandemonium to it.
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No. Pandemonium was what existed at the border under the Biden Administration. You shockingly had no real concerns then though.
 
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#7,567
#7,567
Vol423 said:
You are making a preposterous argument. If ICE truthfully believes that you are an illegal immigrant, then they have probable cause. Stops are made all the time by law enforcement personnel that have probable cause in which the person questioned is subsequently released with no charges. That doesn't mean that probable cause never existed.
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No they can't just "believe" you're an illegal immigrant. Needs to be some sort of actual reasoning
 
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#7,571
utvolpj said:
No they can't just "believe" you're an illegal immigrant. Needs to be some sort of actual reasoning
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No ****, Sherlock! That was the implied meaning of my statement about "truthfully believing", which you conveniently ignored in order to continue your handwringing over nothing.

ICE obviously can't just walk down the streets stopping every hispanic they see because they must be here illegally. They must have specific reasons to believe that specific person is here illegally. That is what they are doing.
 
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#7,573
hjeagle1vol said:
Freedom of choice and voice. Legal residency is a blessing in this world. I commend you for not showing an ID to anyone as is your right…of
Course unless you want a beer or to be able to drive legally and all.
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I have a grey hair in my beard so I rarely get carded buying booze.
 
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