Progressive woke mob at it again

#126
#126
n_huffhines said:
That wouldn't make any sense because it's historical fiction about African slaves, who are of course black. James Bond is a fiction about a British spy who happens to be white, but that doesn't relate to the story in any meaningful way.
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Anne Boleyn?
 
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#131
#131
n_huffhines said:
I don't follow
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I don’t have a problem with Elba - and you’re right, James Bond is a fictional character that was written as white. His whiteness isn’t overly central to his character.

Anne Boleyn is an actual historical figure. A real lady, with actual portraits. She is currently being played by the actress from Queen & Slim. Same, different, who cares?
 
#132
#132
How about the M&Ms? Are we supposed to be getting our hackles up that cartoonified candy is changing?
 
#135
#135
85SugarVol said:
I don’t have a problem with Elba - and you’re right, James Bond is a fictional character that was written as white. His whiteness isn’t overly central to his character.

Anne Boleyn is an actual historical figure. A real lady, with actual portraits. She is currently being played by the actress from Queen & Slim. Same, different, who cares?
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It doesn't bother me, but I do understand people griping about that, especially if they care about Anne Boleyn and that history.
 
#136
#136
n_huffhines said:
It doesn't bother me, but I do understand people griping about that, especially if they care about Anne Boleyn and that history.
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Fair enough.

Recognizing all the examples (e.g., John Wayne as Khan, Liz Taylor as Cleopatra, etc.) of Hollywood whitewashing in the past…

You ok with white actors playing black historical figures in “re-imagining” historical narratives going forward?
 
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#137
#137
85SugarVol said:
Fair enough.

Recognizing all the examples (e.g., John Wayne as Khan, Liz Taylor as Cleopatra, etc.) of Hollywood whitewashing in the past…

You ok with white actors playing black historical figures in “re-imagining” historical narratives going forward?
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No. I don't really care that it happened in the past but in the present, I think it's totally tone def.

It's easier for me to tolerate Hollywood pandering to groups they have historically wronged than to tolerate Hollywood continuing to wrong groups they have historically wronged.
 
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#138
#138
n_huffhines said:
No. I don't really care that it happened in the past but in the present, I think it's totally tone def.

It's easier for me to tolerate Hollywood pandering to groups they have historically wronged than to tolerate Hollywood continuing to wrong groups they have historically wronged.
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I swear I’m not trying to grill you here.

I am truly intrigued by this entire concept and what people are/not ok with.
 
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#139
#139
85SugarVol said:
I swear I’m not trying to grill you here.

I am truly intrigued by this entire concept and what people are/not ok with.
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Sometimes I do roll my eyes at stuff that is clearly pandering, but I also think representation is a good thing and I can make fun of Hollywood for pandering while thinking it probably yields good results on the net.
 
#140
#140
85SugarVol said:
Fair enough.

Recognizing all the examples (e.g., John Wayne as Khan, Liz Taylor as Cleopatra, etc.) of Hollywood whitewashing in the past…

You ok with white actors playing black historical figures in “re-imagining” historical narratives going forward?
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I think they would become very indignant over the black face stuff. As far as Bond; Ian Fleming had him well described in the book - and the fact that upon death or other kind of retirement, a new number goes to the new guy - or gal. It's just so simple to replace 007 with 008 and so on, so it's absurd to make a major change in gender or race and pretend the 007 fits. Fiction or not, you just don't mess with some things.
 
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#141
#141
n_huffhines said:
Sometimes I do roll my eyes at stuff that is clearly pandering, but I also think representation is a good thing and I can make fun of Hollywood for pandering while thinking it probably yields good results on the net.
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No problem with Hollywood changing with the times, especially if they believe it will help grow the bottom line.
 
#142
#142
AM64 said:
I think they would become very indignant over the black face stuff. As far as Bond; Ian Fleming had him well described in the book - and the fact that upon death or other kind of retirement, a new number goes to the new guy - or gal. It's just so simple to replace 007 with 008 and so on, so it's absurd to make a major change in gender or race and pretend the 007 fits. Fiction or not, you just don't mess with some things.
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Well that’s an interesting idea. Could make a clean transition to any actor (male or female) if the story shifted to the “next” agent - 008
 
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#143
#143
A thought on how important representation can be...the current Jeopardy champ is crushing it and she is trans. I watched an episode with my parents and they brought up that she is trans and kept praising her for how good she is. They only referred to her as "she" and never followed it up with anything like, "I guess that's what you call 'it.'" which exactly is what they would have said a decade ago. And they're not holding back because they think I'd judge them. That doesn't seem to stop them at all from saying stuff that isn't PC. They acted that way because they have now been confronted enough with the existence of trans people, they have more understanding, and they want to be polite.
 
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#144
#144
85SugarVol said:
No problem with Hollywood changing with the times, especially if they believe it will help grow the bottom line.
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That's the biggest reason why I don't have a problem with John Wayne and Liz Taylor from the past. They largely cast white people because that was a good business decision at the time, and today, becoming more woke is a good business decision.
 
#145
#145
AM64 said:
I think they would become very indignant over the black face stuff. As far as Bond; Ian Fleming had him well described in the book - and the fact that upon death or other kind of retirement, a new number goes to the new guy - or gal. It's just so simple to replace 007 with 008 and so on, so it's absurd to make a major change in gender or race and pretend the 007 fits. Fiction or not, you just don't mess with some things.
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I think it's fine to make a 008 movie (wasn't that Trevalyan codename or was he 006?) but I want Bond, too, and Idris is the best Bond. Get Hiddleston to play 008.
 
#146
#146
n_huffhines said:
That's the biggest reason why I don't have a problem with John Wayne and Liz Taylor from the past. They largely cast white people because that was a good business decision at the time, and today, becoming more woke is a good business decision.
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Business is responsible to the shareholders, not to society. So I agree (sort of). Not sure if we have enough data to support your final argument.
 
#147
#147
n_huffhines said:
I think it's fine to make a 008 movie (wasn't that Trevalyan codename or was he 006?) but I want Bond, too, and Idris is the best Bond. Get Hiddleston to play 008.
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I’m trying to play devil’s advocate and come up with a better name than Elba. Difficult.
 
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#149
#149
85SugarVol said:
Business is responsible to the shareholders, not to society. So I agree (sort of). Not sure if we have enough data to support your final argument.
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The data probably exists, but IDK who has run it. I would say that big budget blockbusters for general audiences aren't great opportunities for going woke for the sake of wokenss, but so much of what Hollywood produces is for niche audiences and/or awards. It wouldn't surprise me if Anne Boelyn being black gets more eyeballs/award cred for that movie.

In the case of Bond, it might cost them something. IDK. If it's awesome, I think most people that like Bond movies would see it and they might add to their audience on the net by bringing in new Bond fans.

The old fans who grew up on Sean Connery are starting to die off and it makes sense for Hollywood to try to build a bigger audience among the younger demos.
 
#150
#150
85SugarVol said:
Michael Fassbender is pretty good, could see him as 007
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I like that a lot but I think he might be one of those guys to turn his nose up to another action franchise. Maybe he's a Bond superfan and would love to do it, I really don't know. He just strikes me as artsy.
 
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