Protesters are now going to residential areas. Just a matter of time

#103
#103
volfanhill said:
White people: what’s the problem

Black people: we don’t like the idea of celebrating anyone who was good with us being enslaved


White people: shocked


That’s really what this comes down to.
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My point is this in the whole statue deal. I get the removal of random Jim Crow era anonymous confederate soldier statues that were erected. However, isn’t it more counterproductive to remove statues and monuments of significant historical figures JUST because they served the Confederacy? I think there is a lot to be learned by stating the facts of an individual’s contributions and transgressions, good, bad or indifferent. Tearing them down or removing them does nothing unless one is not serious about being educated in actual history. Because it IS our history. Needs to be learned and never forgotten.
 
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#104
#104
zeppelin128 said:
If I recall correctly the FBI stated that the BBs were violent at several protests a few weeks ago.
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The Fusion Center and national LE report last week stated the protests that became violent was due to multiple groups including BLM, Antifa, white and black supremacists, anti government groups (on both sides) and regular local criminals
 
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#105
#105
volfanhill said:
Yes but the whole reason for leaving was that the south wanted slaves. That’s not up for debate. Read the actual words of those wanting to secede. The states right to have slaves.
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That’s irrelevant, it’s an important part of US history and influenced over 75 years of our nation. You can’t whitewash history simply because you disagree with the men who forged it. History is created by imperfect men on all sides of every issue.
 
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#108
#108
NashVol11 said:
Acknowledgment isn't support, but putting those people on pedestals/naming buildings after them is. I don't think most people would support Germany putting up Nazi statues and talking about "well these guys really were fighting for their families, not for slaughtering Jews"
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Well, it’s against the law to have Nazi symbols in Germany due to denazification after WWII, you’d need to go to Israel, where it’s legal.
 
#109
#109
zeppelin128 said:
I'm sure there are BLM members that are Marxist. I don't think that defines the movement as a whole, nor the majority of protesters. If we are going to agree that not all cops are bad, then we should agree that not all peaceful protestors are bad either.

Note I said peaceful protestors before you guys start yelling at me.
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The movement as an entirety is based on faux outrage. It’s just another race hustling scam
 
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#110
#110
NashVol11 said:
Yes, chanting "eat the rich" doesn't make it violent...
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Correct but it makes it threatening, and if you threaten someone then it's not peaceful. We are discussing the word "peaceful". Walk in front of my property yelling those words and see if I take it as a threat.
 
#111
#111
hUTch2002 said:
Well until we actually talk to each other and LISTEN then nothing will change. What makes that tough is that you have people on both sides that don’t seem to truly want things fixed. You also have some people that aren’t open to truly listening because they don’t think there are any problems and then some see everything as a problem, even things that really aren’t. These are the people being propped up by the media and politicians so they can use it as an election platform. That’s what’s disgusting. The police are a great example. Most cops are good people trying to do the right thing. Some aren’t and the system is designed to protect those cops. Changes are needed but not abolishing police, taking tons of resources away, or removing all legal protections for them. They’re being asked to make life or death decisions in a split second. There needs to be some recognition of the difficulty of doing so while also holding them accountable on some level. I know they’re supposed to be highly trained but you just don’t know how people respond until they actually have to face a given situation. Look at how many people crash their vehicles to avoid hitting a small animal. I’m sure everyone at some point is told don’t swerve, that could lead to a wreck. But the reality is people swerve all the time, some into trees or head on collisions with other vehicles to avoid hitting a small animal. That’s an example most can relate to that pales in comparison to the pressure on an officer in a life threatening situation. Anyway, police reform is supposed to be a major issue that needs immediate attention but so far nothing has gotten done towards any real, sustainable change. Abolishing the police and/or making an autonomous zone are not long term solutions nor are they steps towards long term solutions. So why is this nonsense happening? It can’t be to get attention because the whole country is all over this. My company, as many likely are, is doing all kinds of things towards race relations. But what’s the end game here? Is it just police reform? If not, what else needs to change? Until we get some meaningful discussions and start taking reasonable actions this won’t end. The politicians at local, state, and Federal levels are who we seem to be looking to for solutions but they won’t solve jack sh*t unless it can be used for election purposes so to me I don’t see a good end to all this. My prediction is more pandering, a declared victory because of some lip service whether it comes from Trump, Biden, or other politicians, and then we’re back to business as usual. Sorry for the long rant. I just don’t think people are really thinking through any of this any further than how they stand to benefit from it so that gives me little faith in any meaningful change. Maybe we do get some police reform, which isn’t a bad thing, but I don’t see that as a black/white issue. I agree with Ras. That’s a good cop/bad cop issue as opposed to race.
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X100! You just needed some paragraphs. I think it would miss the boat to not breakdown this whole thing because there is lots of good stuff in it. You touched on so many areas.
 
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#112
#112
happy-go_vol said:
They never planned at stopping there, they'll destroy every church cross if they could, every resemblance of history if they could.
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As I've heard lately, it's not just about history it is about demoralizing you until you are living in fear of having a different point of view. Consider that. It is how it is in totalitarian countries.
 
#114
#114
NashVol11 said:
We don't have any Hitler statues, nor any schools with an Adolf Hitler School of Business. Have we forgotten about WWII, or is he one of the most well-known figures in human history?

Once again, the idea that a statue of a racist is the singular key to preserving our history is unfathomably dumb. I haven't seen any single person advocate for erasing all wars from history classes, so link or your logical reasoning skills are trash.
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Young fella, they don't teach y'all history anymore. They teach you indoctrination. History in a class setting should be meant to teach more than having a teacher/professor form opinions about it to create resentment. Because history you respect. History you learn from. History shows an evolution of a nation. History bothers you. History you preserve and let it be a lesson. Teaching history does all those things in a civilized society.

History doesn't teach hate. You apparently don't understand what we are seeing with anarchy is hate. Switching one hate for another. The twisting of logic. Indoctrination and conditioning teaches hate.

History should help to shape and mold the present and future. Compare and contrast, and appreciate. Your right to be offended stops at someone else's right to offend. Intelligent debate takes place in a "civilized" society where there is a proper way to handle disagreements. It is unlawful to settle disputes in the streets like in the days of showdowns. That is the point of the Constitution. Govern by a set of rules to prevent unruliness.
 
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#115
#115
0nelilreb said:
Never in our history has a generation had endless access to endless information at their fingertips and turn out to be so ignorant of facts . It goes against all logic and shows that they have a lack of desire to learn anything that’s not directly affecting them at the moment.
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The calculator effect.
 
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#117
#117
landscapingvol said:
Slavery in Europe, North America, South America, and the Caribbean was wrong but it was no more wrong than the treatment of Native Americans. You cannot “right” past wrongs no matter how many statues or business are destroyed. History books will be empty if we remove every figure who had views on a subject that are no longer considered acceptable and that is what is lost in this entire discussion.
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I will add that history is never erased but it can we refused to be acknowledged and replaced with a new history of lies the buries the real history in hopes that it's never learned from. Those types of gaps in history is dangerous to mankind and leads to a world when no one truly understands what happened during a time period (not that I'm expecting earth to be here another 2000 years). Wow that is disturbing to think about.
 
#118
#118
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Seems like we have a thread or two just for the statues but the subject keeps coming up. A lot of the monuments, particularly the mass produced stuff like the monument in the Franklin Square, were paid for by nickel and dime contributions collected in the names of widows and orphans of men who were drafted and marched off to die by the state that they lived in. Most of these men had never left the county they were born in and many were illiterate and had no clue as to nuances of constitutional scholarship concerning the 10th Amendment. And most of them not only didn't own a slave but had no realistic hope of ever having enough money to own a slave. Now, if you're a hate-filled person who can't get over your own sense of inferiority, you probably cannot ever accept that there is something noble and tender in many of those monuments and I guess I cannot fault you for that hate. I've never had to look at my skin and wonder why my own flesh and blood wouldn't fight to the death rather than be carted off into slavery. It's probably a humiliating and demoralizing feeling and makes people resentful of anything associated with the culture that was the master of their ancestor's bodies and minds. Even when the monuments and flags are gone, that knowledge will still be there eating at the souls of people who open themselves to hate, envy, and bitterness. I don't think there's any way this will ever be resolved.
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I think Nash keeps going back to the statue argument as a least common denominator discussion. Probably had some recent classes and feels like the tree of knowledge.
 
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#119
#119
C-south said:
Same with the history of slavery. Most black people think a bunch of white dudes raided Africa and rounded up black folks while being in denial they were actually sold by their own people.
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Correct after battles between warring tribes, then by way of Europe.
 
#121
#121
BreatheUT said:
Correct but it makes it threatening, and if you threaten someone then it's not peaceful. We are discussing the word "peaceful". Walk in front of my property yelling those words and see if I take it as a threat.
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That’s not a threat either, regardless of how “you take it”
 
#122
#122
BreatheUT said:
I think Nash keeps going back to the statue argument as a least common denominator discussion. Probably had some recent classes and feels like the tree of knowledge.
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Lol there’s not much else to say when the thread topic is “OH NO people are protesting in an orderly and peaceful manner EVERYONE WATCH OUT”
 
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#123
#123
BreatheUT said:
I will add that history is never erased but it can we refused to be acknowledged and replaced with a new history of lies the buries the real history in hopes that it's never learned from. Those types of gaps in history is dangerous to mankind and leads to a world when no one truly understands what happened during a time period (not that I'm expecting earth to be here another 2000 years). Wow that is disturbing to think about.
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Disturbing eh? Because that’s what we’ve been doing throughout our existence. Most of what we learn about Columbus, Mother Teresa, MLK, Gandhi, and several other historical figures is “a new history of lies,” but people have grown attached to those particular lies by now so they’re “history”
 
#124
#124
NashVol11 said:
Acknowledgment isn't support, but putting those people on pedestals/naming buildings after them is. I don't think most people would support Germany putting up Nazi statues and talking about "well these guys really were fighting for their families, not for slaughtering Jews"
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Half of West Virginia is named after Robert Byrd, the former Klansman. Should all that be renamed/demolished?
 
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#125
#125
NashVol11 said:
Disturbing eh? Because that’s what we’ve been doing throughout our existence. Most of what we learn about Columbus, Mother Teresa, MLK, Gandhi, and several other historical figures is “a new history of lies,” but people have grown attached to those particular lies by now so they’re “history”
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Do you feel the same about Muhammad? You never said yes or no?
 
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