Public confidence in the military is slipping

#27
#27
Weezer said:
The military of today seems extremely soft compared to the military of the past. No, I do not know that to be 100% fact which is why I said "seems". Just a personal observation.
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What? Diversity and inclusion are their strength!




lol just kidding. That's why they appear soft. The number of actual war fighters who can get the job done slowly shrink for the sake of inclusion and diversity.
 
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#28
#28
FLVOL_79 said:
What? Diversity and inclusion are their strength!




lol just kidding. That's why they appear soft. The number of actual war fighters who can get the job done slowly shrink for the sake of inclusion and diversity.
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It really isn't just that- it's a cancerous bloat over decades that's led to most people in the military being almost entirely yes man pencil pushers. It's a jobs program. My huge fear is that there are very few in the military that could figure out how to operate without a chain of command.
 
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#29
#29
ButchPlz said:
It really isn't just that- it's a cancerous bloat over decades that's led to most people in the military being almost entirely yes man pencil pushers. It's a jobs program. My huge fear is that there are very few in the military that could figure out how to operate without a chain of command.
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My experience is that most "Adults" can't even do that regardless of military service or not.
 
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#32
#32
ButchPlz said:
It really isn't just that- it's a cancerous bloat over decades that's led to most people in the military being almost entirely yes man pencil pushers. It's a jobs program. My huge fear is that there are very few in the military that could figure out how to operate without a chain of command.
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It’s a terrible thing to admit and 20 years ago I would have said you’re FOS. However I’m pretty sure my buddies that stayed in to retirement would agree with you.
 
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#33
#33
OHvol40 said:
While I don’t share this perspective, I acknowledge the validity in it for some Americans. I would offer that mistrust in American defenses has been a cumulative, deep seeded one built over generations now rather than over the last year-or-so.
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Actually, let me rephrase.

I agree it's eroded over time. But the sharp decline has probably been since the early to mid 2010s and even more in the last year.
 
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#34
#34
Grand Vol said:
Actually, let me rephrase.

I agree it's eroded over time. But the sharp decline has probably been since the early to mid 2010s and even more in the last year.
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What years were you in? You probably saw the start of the decline, I know I saw the rapid changes once Clinton took office.
 
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#36
#36
AM64 said:
Korea was very likely a correct decision for several reasons. Vietnam is questionable, but the thinking about Sino/Soviet aggression throughout the world at the time probably forced the issue. Pretty much anything since those two hasn't made much sense at all unless you are big on chest beating - and we left without much of that to brag about. After WW2 our resolve to fight the battle to win appears to have evaporated - along with confidence and trust. Don't put people at risk if you don't intend to walk away a winner.
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Ho Chi Minh begged Truman for US support when they were fighting the French. Once that happened and the French were defeated, Vietnam went into civil war. Had FDR been alive, Ho Chi Minh might have gotten a more receptive response and Vietnam would have been a stable Western ally in the 1950s. Instead, Ho Chu Minh was forced to turn to the communists for assistance in their war for independence. Once that happened, now suddenly Ho Chi Minh is the bad guy.
 
#37
#37
hog88 said:
What years were you in? You probably saw the start of the decline, I know I saw the rapid changes once Clinton took office.
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93-13. There were rapid changes in the 90s, but I think it's gotten a lot worse since I left. If you were to tell me the year I retired we'd be paying for a sex change operation for a guy in Leavenworth or having a foreign company looking at military members social media posts for "extremist activity" based solely on political affiliation, I'd have said you were crazy.
 
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#38
#38
AM64 said:
In a way during the Cold War period we were at a disadvantage. The Soviets were supporting endless "wars of liberation" - basically induced civil wars to convert counties destabilized by the end of European colonization (sometimes a forced end). It was a threat to the free world as a matter of perception and of trade and access to resources. I think we and others in the free world were basically in a bind over that. It's hard to win that kind of war (like Vietnam), but in any case we lacked the resolve to do it right which made involvement a poor choice.
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FDR was a huge supporter of these independence movements in the British and French colonies. Had he been alive, the USSR wouldn't have stood a chance in siding/supporting many of those movements. Churchill, in particular, was not happy about FDR's position.
 
#39
#39
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ho Chi Minh begged Truman for US support when they were fighting the French. Once that happened and the French were defeated, Vietnam went into civil war. Had FDR been alive, Ho Chi Minh might have gotten a more receptive response and Vietnam would have been a stable Western ally in the 1950s. Instead, Ho Chu Minh was forced to turn to the communists for assistance in their war for independence. Once that happened, now suddenly Ho Chi Minh is the bad guy.
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Had FDR been alive he would have given half of Japan and all of Vietnam to Stalin. Probably all of Germany also.

Edit: Also FDR didn't support independence for the British and French colonies, he wanted them for himself.
 
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#41
#41
Grand Vol said:
93-13. There were rapid changes in the 90s, but I think it's gotten a lot worse since I left. If you were to tell me the year I retired we'd be paying for a sex change operation for a guy in Leavenworth or having a foreign company looking at military members social media posts for "extremist activity" based solely on political affiliation, I'd have said you were crazy.
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It was a rapid change in 93. From 88-93 it was fun, tough but fun we were in the field or deployed more than 1/2 the year and schools were easy to get (hey your single and we have a slot for xyz). Then spring/summer 93 most live fire exercises were scaled back or cancelled, school slots became harder to get, promotion points were maxed and we started to get stupid warnings about things like cadences and language. Stopped being fun real fast.
 
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#42
#42
hog88 said:
Had FDR been alive he would have given half of Japan and all of Vietnam to Stalin. Probably all of Germany also.
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I can't speak on Germany or Japan, but you could be right. I haven't seen or read anything on those situations. But I don't think that assertion about Vietnam or any of the other British or French colonies is true.
 
#43
#43
Rasputin_Vol said:
I can't speak on Germany or Japan, but you could be right. I haven't seen or read anything on those situations. But I don't think that assertion about Vietnam or any of the other British or French colonies is true.
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FDR was a huge Stalin fan-boi and gave him whatever he wanted.
 
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#44
#44
OHvol40 said:
I believe the foundation for mistrust was laid during Vietnam.
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Maybe not mistrust. Not really the term I'd use. Maybe faith in the ability to perform the job?

I don't know if you would call that mistrust or not.
 
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#45
#45
Grand Vol said:
Actually, let me rephrase.

I agree it's eroded over time. But the sharp decline has probably been since the early to mid 2010s and even more in the last year.
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That may be so, interesting topic none-the-less. If people actually took this lack of confidence to the polls then maybe we would see candidates who have reducing the bloated defense budget as a major platform item.
 
#46
#46
hog88 said:
FDR was a huge Stalin fan-boi and gave him whatever he wanted.
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I agree, and Stalin for some reason felt similarly about FDR. But none of the former colonies would have been on the menu for Stalin. FDR had his own ambitions with those countries.
 
#47
#47
Rasputin_Vol said:
I agree, and Stalin for some reason felt similarly about FDR. But none of the former colonies would have been on the menu for Stalin. FDR had his own ambitions with those countries.
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Stalin wanted part of Japan, that's the only reason he declared war on them in the waning days of WWII. If not for MacArthur he would have gotten his wish.
 
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#48
#48
hog88 said:
It’s a terrible thing to admit and 20 years ago I would have said you’re FOS. However I’m pretty sure my buddies that stayed in to retirement would agree with you.
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I've got two friends my age that enlisted and left because of it. I'd consider both of them smart, motivated guys, too. I'd hope the military would want those now.
 
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