Put up or Shut up time

[governmentmule]

it takes time VolFootballover,CBJ and company haven't had it yet,i still think he is a couple of years away,the Vols will be lucky to get into a Bowl Game this year,a few more injury's and the freshmen getting wore down,who knows what will happen,it may be good or it could get ugly

 

[Tennesseevols311]

It's short-trigger thinking like this that has given us 3 coaches in six years. Butch has done a wonderful job in recruiting and has gotten the kids to buy into his system. He has instilled discipline and continues to develop the talent on the current roster. This year's team has played better than most of us have expected and light years better than their performances under the prior regime. Win or lose, this is not the pivotal game of Butch's career that some are making it out to be.

This.

That is all.

 

[vols4evah]

I wondered when ole Weedy would open his mouth, I have had to read his drivel for decades and can attest to the fact he isn't a Vol fan at all. The internet has been a blessing for me to get my football information other places than having to read his column.

 

[volgrad500]

Sometimes we as fans can't see the forrest for the trees. We are so invested and follow the team so closely that we know every little issue going on, understand all the hurdles that Jones was facing when he got here.
But the vast majority of people watching this game don't know those things. They simply know that we have been rebuilding so we haven't taken any heat for losing to superior teams. But this Florida team is not perceived as being superior. They have players calling for a change at QB and are almost certainly already conducting the early stages of a coaching search. The game is in our house and we are hungry to end a nine year @#$ whipping. In order to be able to keep selling a dream, at some point you have to show actual results.

Yes, Jones inherited a bad team. Almost all teams who change coaches are bad. Yes, he brought in a new system, and doing so takes time. But ask yourself this-if FL was playing at Arkansas this weekend, wouldn't you expect a Razorback victory? That team was also a dumpster fire and completely changed their system, but if they lost to this FL team we would all be saying how Bielema wasn't getting it done.

 

[JohnD13]

I agree to an extent that this is an important game, but it's not one of those "If we can't win, we won't go to a bowl" type of games.

Ummm probably is just that. If you lose to UF, where are you other 4 wins coming from? UTC and Vandy I see. UK is no gimmie now. :unsure:

 

[kcvols1]

I will say this, liquor sales in the state of Tennessee will most likely break an all time daily record Saturday if we don't.

I'd say that's likely either way

 

[JohnD13]

I may be wrong but the clock is ticking for Jones to start winning some games .year 3 he will not have any excuses. Year 4 will decide if he can make it .

I almost think Year 3 and 4 are one in the same....Next year is the year one way or another.... I don't personally feel that way but seems the vocal vols fans do...

 

[WesternKyVol]

A great coach wins tomorrow. I don't think a loss will put Butch on the hot seat but it probably should. It will tell us a heck of a lot about Butch Jones. The whole of volnation, and I not talking about the website here, is poised to celebrate a massive breakout win. Butch needs to deliver. It is there for the taking. Butch needs to kick down the door.

A championship level coach does not miss this opportunity, lose this game.

 

[Deputy Fife]

Okay. But that statement doesn't answer any of my questions and doesn't have any bearing on your previous statement.

...also, just checked the article and this thread. No one mentions a "hot seat" except you. So, I'm not sure what you are even talking about. Or are you just trying to obscure the issue with the same old tired straw man tropes?

A lot of people cannot admit to being wrong or not knowing something. They will maintain to their death that the emperor has clothes just to avoid the "humiliation" of appearing not to have all the answers. Your conversation with this guy might as well have gone like this:

Guy: It's a nice sunny day today!

You: It's 33 degrees and cloudy with
driving rain and 25 mph winds;
how does that constitute a nice
sunny day?

Guy: Everybody says there are massive
tornadoes bringing death and
destruction to every Middlesex
village and town; that's a bit
insane to me. Lowe's has better
customer servive than Home Depot
but falls short in selection.

You: What? Who said anything about
tornadoes? You didn't even begin
to answer my question.

Guy: [goes about his life as if
conversation never happened]

Unfortunately, this will always be a thing. Once someone proves to be intellectually inoperable, the onus is on you as a sentient being to stop the pissing contest; any time you waste arguing in earnest is on you, save the energy, direct it to people you care about, people who have a chance.

 

[DD4ME]

I said when UK played UF to triple OT that we sure as hell better beat UF. Count me in the minority as someone that would believe we need some kind of change if we lose to UF at home. I'm not saying Butch Jones would need to go at all but something would need to get fixed quick.

 

[chidave]

Huh? Please explain.

You think Dooley just needed more time? That things were improving?

You think Kiffin ran to USC because there was just too much pressure to win here?

You think Fulmer was actually going to turn things around after trending down for a decade?

I see alot of folks on here make statements like yours and they make no sense to me.

I have to agree here, having a quick trigger has not been the problem at Tennessee, it has been two catastrophically bad coaching hires in Kiffin and Dooley. Looking back, if anything Dooley was given too much time.

CBJ is not on the hot seat if he loses this game, however the lingering doubts the offensive scheme will continue to linger unless we can get wins like the one on Saturday. He has rallied the masses, he has got the "Joes" back into the program, but he has not shown yet he has the "X and Os" to get it done in the SEC.

Now...he hasn't had many opportunities to show that, but Saturday is a very winnable game against a down Florida team. This program will take a huge step forward on the return to glory with a W, and all of Vol Nation is hoping we can get it done.

Go Vols!

 

[Orangedogsrule]

A great coach wins tomorrow. I don't think a loss will put Butch on the hot seat but it probably should. It will tell us a heck of a lot about Butch Jones. The whole of volnation, and I not talking about the website here, is poised to celebrate a massive breakout win. Butch needs to deliver. It is there for the taking. Butch needs to kick down the door.

A championship level coach does not miss this opportunity, lose this game.

Being able to string together a bunch of overachieving uber masculine high testerone words don't make them reality as it should be.

Come down from the ozone layer. Your first and last sentences are not necessarily true.

Reality bites. What is true is that a great coach can take a program that was literally not even a dumpster fire. It had already burned up. It was the smoldering remains of a many times great athletic program. A joke among the bottom dwellers of the SEC because of how far it had fallen.

Then, out of those ashes in ONLY 22 MONTHS have Team 118 playing at competitative level we've not seen in many many years.

Now, with an offense and defense with so very very little depth and experience, a QB who so many last year gave up on, in ONLY 22 months he's built up the receiving corps to 'Wideout U' status, is shown himself as a recruiting wizard, etc., etc., so forth, and so on.

and dingbats say he's on the hotseat if he don't beat Florida tommorrow.
That's just bat$#!T crazy.

 

[RockyTop411]

That was almost a direct or indirect slander of UT in every bit of that piece. It's kinda unfair to label this as a make or break game for Jones, because Florida obliterated the first team they played. Hung with Bama for a whole half until they Bama pulled away, and then didn't get up for a game against UK in the Swamp because they're still Kentucky.

Now a hyped up game in Neyland against the Vols in a make or break game for their coach... best believe they will be up for this one.

Looks like you're making excuses for Florida. Fact of the matter is this is a very winnable game, at home, against one of your biggest rivals, who's beat our ass the past 9 years.

I like Coach Jones, he's done a great job recruiting, but there's no excuse not to win this game in Knoxville.

Win and we'll get some of the national attention we all want. Win and you set the tone for the rest of the SEC.

No more waiting to beat these sons of b******.

 

[66volfan]

The fact that it is being discussed as a make or break game given the experience of our starting roster is a testiment of the hope this staff has given.
This article was a little truth wrapped in a whole lot of drama. It could have been written by my twelve-u girls softball team with that much drama.
A loss doesn't change the improvement CBJ has brought. You realist are even expecting a win this week.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Huh? Please explain.

You think Dooley just needed more time? That things were improving?

You think Kiffin ran to USC because there was just too much pressure to win here?

You think Fulmer was actually going to turn things around after trending down for a decade?

I see alot of folks on here make statements like yours and they make no sense to me.

In each of your accusations, you have posited statements that were not made so you could beat them down.

He he. That is classic.

You are using a whole string of straw man arguments to kill the messenger.

Fail.

Speaking of making no sense. You have built wonderful example of Logical Fallacy at it's finest.

For example, Fulmer won the NC for 1998. While it is true that anything less than another NC is 'trending down', reasonable people will not place that kind of expectation on anyone. They would, however, hope that through correct hires in the end of year assistant coaching carosel the the program would remain fairly continuously ranked in the Top 25, with shots at the SEC CG which always would make them competitive for the BCS bowls or BCS NCG. In 2006 we were ranked as high as No. 8. In 2007 we were consistently ranked and played in the SEC CG. It was after the first week of 2008 when we were surely incorrectly ranked 18th when the wheels came off. And many of us contend much of that was due to the constant howl of a unrealistic portion fanbase with expectations virtually no human on earth can meet.

As Fulmer was ranked as high as 7th in 2006, that is by no means 'trending down'. So, let's use 2007 for your argument anyway.In REALITY, Fulmer is only into his 2ND year of trending down. At least the trend that myself and many many many folks who consider themselves reasonable see. You actually say "Fulmer was trending down for a decade". That is a lie.

 

[sjt18]

I think it was the 90,000 who booed his decision to kneel on the ball with a plethora of future NFLers on offense with 37 seconds and timeouts remaining against Mizzou who were heard the loudest.

But they.... bought tickets.

PS- I hope you don't expect Jones to never make a mistake like that... fact is he already has made a few like that. Dooley is gone for a bunch of reasons that were more "impactful" than that.

 

[oregonvol]

A lot of people cannot admit to being wrong or not knowing something. They will maintain to their death that the emperor has clothes just to avoid the "humiliation" of appearing not to have all the answers. Your conversation with this guy might as well have gone like this:

Guy: It's a nice sunny day today!

You: It's 33 degrees and cloudy with
driving rain and 25 mph winds;
how does that constitute a nice
sunny day?

Guy: Everybody says there are massive
tornadoes bringing death and
destruction to every Middlesex
village and town; that's a bit
insane to me. Lowe's has better
customer servive than Home Depot
but falls short in selection.

You: What? Who said anything about
tornadoes? You didn't even begin
to answer my question.

Guy: [goes about his life as if
conversation never happened]

Unfortunately, this will always be a thing. Once someone proves to be intellectually inoperable, the onus is on you as a sentient being to stop the pissing contest; any time you waste arguing in earnest is on you, save the energy, direct it to people you care about, people who have a chance.

Good advice. Should probably be stickied for this forum.

 

[sjt18]

The problem is UT isn't "back." On the way "back," yes but not there yet. Sorry to break it to ya, but the road is a longer than you want it to be.

You like many others tend to look only at UT's liabilities and weaknesses. Almost every team in the SEC has them. Bama is probably the only team without a thin or weak spot in their 2 deep. There are degrees of weakness and those with "better" weaknesses or "better" coaches who can coach around them will be the ones that compete at a high level.

UT has a significant weakness at OL. They're getting better. The coaches are doing a very good job of scheming around it... but it will be critical against the best teams. UF... isn't one of the best teams. Nor is Mizzou. Nor is USCe. We'll see what Ole Miss has this weekend.

"Back" to competing for the SEC? Probably not. "Back" to being able to beat a UF team with big holes and turmoil? That they should be.

 

[oregonvol]

In each of your accusations, you have posited statements that were not made so you could beat them down.

He he. That is classic.

You are using a whole string of straw man arguments to kill the messenger.

Fail.

What are you even talking about? I was asking the other poster how he rationalized his statement "It's short-trigger thinking like this that has given us 3 coaches in six years. " And, since you want to weigh in, I'll ask you...what short trigger thinking? Getting rid of Dooley? Letting Lane Kiffin go?

Or do we just mean Fulmer? In which case I will refer to your next piece...

Speaking of making no sense. You have built wonderful example of Logical Fallacy at it's finest.

For example, Fulmer won the NC for 1998. While it is true that anything less than another NC is 'trending down', reasonable people will not place that kind of expectation on anyone. They would, however, hope that through correct hires in the end of year assistant coaching carosel the the program would remain fairly continuously ranked in the Top 25, with shots at the SEC CG which always would make them competitive for the BCS bowls or BCS NCG. In 2006 we were ranked as high as No. 8. In 2007 we were consistently ranked and played in the SEC CG. It was after the first week of 2008 when we were surely incorrectly ranked 18th when the wheels came off. And many of us contend much of that was due to the constant howl of a unrealistic portion fanbase with expectations virtually no human on earth can meet.

As Fulmer was ranked as high as 7th in 2006, that is by no means 'trending down'. So, let's use 2007 for your argument anyway.In REALITY, Fulmer is only into his 2ND year of trending down. At least the trend that myself and many many many folks who consider themselves reasonable see. You actually say "Fulmer was trending down for a decade". That is a lie.

Yeah, if we pick and choose random rankings throughout the decade, maybe you have a point.

Unfortunately, the rest of us don't wear those kinds of blinders. He proved that he could no longer beat Florida. He proved that he couldn't compete with Saban. After spending the 90's finishing 1st or 2nd in the SEC East every year, he was averaging lower than 2nd place in the East over the course of the 2000s. And his average recruiting rankings were also sinking, culminating in a top 40 finish after 2007, the lowest I can ever recall. That is trending down. Furthermore, he went the whole decade without a championship of any kind and had 2 losing seasons in 4 years. How many major programs wouldn't fire a coach these days who has 2 losing seasons in 4 years?

Bobby Bowden built Florida State's program, never had a losing season, and they got rid of him. Why on earth should Fulmer expect more time (Bowden even had the more recent national championship)? How on earth is this fan base so "short trigger" based on their reaction to Fulmer, when pretty much any fanbase anywhere would have done the same?

 

[YorkVol]

We will FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF them up, and shut them up VOLS 31 little gators 17, its AZZ KICKING TIME IN TENNESSEE come Saturday at noon, at 3.30 the streak will be over the bars will over flow with drunken VOL FANS, its been 9 long ffffffffffffffffffffffing years time to party in the GREAT STATE OF TENNESSEE.:rock::clapping:

I love you Terry. homo/no home/whatever

 

[sjt18]

1/2 our O line are freshmen, RB a freshman, several WR's are freshmen and that's just on the O side of the ball.

Playing 20+ freshmen means we're NOT even close to being back!

Except that UT competed with two of the 3 most talented teams on their roster and had several opportunities late in the game to beat one of them. Being "back" of course means winning most of those games and doing so consistently... But they appear to be closer than you think.

Especially in the SEC where quality depth and real game experience does mean alot.

And you too ignore the problems of pretty much every team in the East except UGA. ALL of the others have critical weaknesses in their rosters. Maybe it is youth... maybe it is lack of talent.

Far too many people here on VN always OVERexpect and then whine and cry with every loss that really hurts worse because they set themselves up to hurt worse with their overexpectatons.

And far too many pre-position excuses to avoid being disappointed.

Then they blame everything on the coaches and scream for new coaches which IS totally moronic.

Not screaming. But if you think Jones won't be on a hot seat to start '15 if he goes 5-7 again... then you are deluding yourself. Long re-building programs are just not realistic... nor practical. Fan base impatience is part of it. But the other part is far more real and critical. If a coach can be labeled a "loser"... then all the hype and bluster in the world won't keep recruiting at a high level. The best recruits typically want to play for the best coaches. If Jones beats a couple of teams (like UF) that say he coaches ABOVE the talent level of his team then kids will line up to play for him. If he starts his tenure 10-14 or worse then they'll probably start listening to rival recruiters. That's just the way that goes.

All that is needed for negative recruiting to work is doubt about a HC. Two consecutive 5-7 seasons... is plenty of ammo.

buTch has only 1 of his recruiting classes on campus and all those kids are true freshmen which ARE already playing beyond any reasonable expectations so early in a really tough season.

Jones started in a hole but he owns two classes. That's the way it works.

I want to WIN as much as anyone else but to already be saying buTch must win or else this season or he's on the hot seat is just plain dumb!

Jones needs to get to a bowl game or he will be on a hot seat. You can think that's dumb. You can hate it. You can scream your lungs out about it. But the reaction to the UGA game (which was dumb btw) is nothing compared to what another 5-7 or worse season would bring.

I actually don't expect this problem... I'm just warning you what will likely happen.

I want to stomp floriDUHH more than anyone else but if we lose I'll be a mature adult and know that buTch hasn't had the time yet to stockpile enough 4* and 5* talent and get them coached up with plenty of real game experience...YET!

Coaching wins games just like talent. The two teams taking the field Saturday will not have a talent gap that makes it a herculean task for UT to win. UF has many weaknesses to exploit and UT has many of the right players to do it.

Instant gratification does NOT happen often in college football especially when the roster talent was almost bare 1 year ago and we've only had 1 really good recruiting class added so far.

If 3 years is "instant".... then, yes, it does happen often... In fact, it most often happens within 3 years or doesn't happen at all.

When we are back we'll never be forced to play 20+ true freshmen because we have no other options and intelligent people know that.

So why again was Dooley fired? He inherited a bad roster. He was forced to play 17 or 18 Fr in both of his first two years iirc. But he entered year 3 on a hot seat because he went 5-7 and failed to close the deal on winnable games.

If Jones goes 5-7 he will be on a hot seat and will need a major record improvement in year 3.

It's totaly amazing that so many true freshmen have been coached up so fast and are playing so well already and that's proof that buTch and his staff can coach damn well.

That is pretty much accepted now. If he doesn't start winning some games then it will ring pretty hollow by season's end.

Instant gratification seekers and overexpecters are a big part of the problem with our footVol program and in our situation I expected it to take 3 or 4 recruiting classes to compete with all the talent rich teams in the always brutal SEC.

You may be right... but if it takes 3 or 4 classes to start "competing" and winning some games against good teams... Jones is going to be a set up man.

Anyone that can't already see good progress with 20+ true freshmen forced to play is blind and talking hot seat already makes them also plain dumb about how to build a serious college football program.

Your having conviction about something doesn't make it true. Coaches keep jobs by winning... not by trying hard. And yes, most successful program builds are set up by a coach who leaves talent that the next guy can win with.

I believe we have a chance to end the damn streak with floriDUHH this weekend and when we WIN this game then give thanks to buTch and his staff for great recruiting and great coaching!

I'm concerned about the UT OL match up with UF's front 7. Otherwise, I like the way UT matches up. To date, Jones and staff have done a great job of off season development and coaching during this season. They are correcting mistakes and coaching kids up... and it STILL has to turn into meaningful wins at some point.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Butch has been here 22 months. Not even two full years. I hope you guys who are already setting him up to knock him down and run him off if we don't go to a bowl this year can just jold your childish howls down enough that people who aren't bat$#!T crazy can enjoy the CFB game. You're about to ruin it for lot's of sane people.

 

[LA Vol]

The tone is a little snarky, but the message is on-point-- we have to win this one. If we can't beat a team that almost lost to UK in the Swamp, then who are we supposed to beat? #3 Bama? #11 Ole Miss away? #24 Mizzou? SCAR at Williams-Brice? If we can't beat UF at Neyland, then UK isn't a gimme, either. I'd like to see us win decisively, but we have to win any way we can.

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

My God, if this team had barely squeaked to 2 wins over USU and ASU and got blown out by OU and UGA by 30+ points like so many people thought, these people and writers and "experts" would all be saying "the vols suck this year, this was expected, next year blah blah." We almost beat UGA and now it's time to put up or shut up? We DO NOT NEED ANOTHER COACHING CAROUSEL. People seem to be forgetting that most chalked Florida up to a loss at the beginning of the season. We need to calm down, let the players play, and give these amazing recruiting classes time to mature. Yes, I think we win tomorrow, but this "put up or shut up", "tomorrow is a career defining game if we lose", "we'd better win or *insert name* needs to go" attitude must be stopped. Tomorrow morning can't get here soon enough.