Quick thoughts after watching old Cincy games.

#51
#51
OP did his best to give an assessment and even though I think most of us disagree, I do appreciate the effort. IOW, ladies in gentlemen please play nice when you level the criticism at a poster who actually did make an effort as we're all fans. /Rodney King can't we all just get along speech :)

Now on to the criticism... I think OP is wrong that we'll be Cincy 2.0 and that assumption informs most of his assessment. A coach like Jones plays to his strengths (most coaches with even a modicum of common sense do) and UT is very different compared to Cincy both in terms of talent and the types of offenses and defenses our opponents run. Adaptation is necessary and Jones has a record of being able to adapt to circumstances. I do think we'll see some things that reflect what he did at Cincy but those things will be based on what Jones and Co. think will work with our players and against opponents. However, it's far too early to assess what we're going to see in the upcoming season and as Jones gains more experience here and different players I wouldn't be surprised to see those things reflected on the field.

What we do know is there's an emphasis on speed and up tempo but how much that will vary from what we saw last year and the year before is anyone's guess. We were actually the 2nd fastest offense in the SEC last year and would've been even faster were it not for an effort to establish a running game.
 
#52
#52
If Tennessee blitzes more with equal or slightly better corner/safety play thanlast year, then the defense still gives up 30 plus in SEC games..blitzing is great if corners can play Man..Tennessee's cant...dont know why this is so hard to understand..
 
#53
#53
JohnnyBall said:
If Tennessee blitzes more with equal or slightly better corner/safety play thanlast year, then the defense still gives up 30 plus in SEC games..blitzing is great if corners can play Man..Tennessee's cant...dont know why this is so hard to understand..
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It's hard to understand absolute definitive statements...judging from last year's performance, our db's seem unable to cover...what if it was from improper technique from lack of proper coaching?...don't be in such a hurry to be right...the season will bear FACTS/TRUTH out soon enough
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#55
#55
Hacksaw said:
I like this thread, because it is thoughtful, makes some specific observations and stimulates conversation.

But I think where the OP missed the boat was in using the evidence to draw conclusions. And, as others have already stated, we can't draw conclusions based on how Cincinnati teams performed. Maybe some of the tendencies will transfer, but this team will be Tennessee, through and through.
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Same here. Man, some of you guys need to back down the attacks just a bit. The guy is making some observations based on actual history, not just raw emotion from a Vol Caravan stop, another rendition of Butch Gets It, or an 8-4 prediction.

Maybe he should have said "IF CBJ plays us like his Cincy teams" ... but nonetheless I'm glad for what he saw. It's a good place to go seeing old game film and try to see his style. I guarantee you that UO, UF, and UGA coaching staffs are breaking down the same games and more. I for one have a lot of question marks about the manner in which we'll play. Can't think of a better way to make an educated guess at it.

No, Jones is successful enough not to think he's a scheme magician an just cookie cut our current roster into his scheme. The guy (and whole staff) are combing thru film of our roster watching for strengths and weaknesses in their play, looking to formulate the "best scenario" scheme for both sides of the ball and ST.

Who really knows how it will end up looking?
 
#57
#57
I didn't mean that we were going to be Cincy 2.0. I was just assuming that a lot of tendencies might translate over. The same staff is essentially coming in. If Butch wants to a go different route after his first year, then you'll probably see a bunch of staff changes.

1. The Redzone suggestion actually came from commentator. It was something about "I talked to their OC and he said there's no trickery about it. We like to run the QB in redzone situations"... (if I find the exact part, I'll post it again)

2. Butch has always said he puts emphasis on Special Teams. They do work hard blocking kicks but sometimes they get slopping when they are the ones kicking. All their kicks that got blocked came from the corner and no blocker picked it up.

3. I may honestly have posted my theories prematurely. I may go look at the Orange and White game to see if what I saw from the Cincy games were close. And/or watch old Georgia games of when Jancek was Co- DC. Specifically watching what the Linebacker did. He's a linebacker guy I think.
 
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#59
#59
Dougie_D said:
9. Our fastest WR will be our go to guy. Route running won't be a big deal. Every other WR will basically be decoys.
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uh I do disagree with this one. Route Running is beyond important with the passing game. Its routes have to be run pretty precise. If I recall the passing game has a bit of a West-Coast type philosophy
Check this link out that I found that explained a bit of the difference between Brian Kelly and Butch Jones' offense when he came to Cinci.
The Difference Between Butch Jones and Brian Kelly: Part 2 - Down The Drive
 
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#60
#60
I won't take you seriously until you watch all of the old central michigan games as well, and then compare them to butch's time in cincy. If they match up, then your word is gold.
 
#61
#61
Then again the players to a man may decide that they give their best effort to a man they may surpass everyones expectations, and develope a chemistry that equates wins in spite of expectations. Life and death are in the power of the tongue, consider that when you type your posts. To proclaim 6-6 seasons to appear conservative in the sight of your fellow posters you may be prophetsying defeat to the team before game 1.
 
#62
#62
thanks dougie,i appreciate you taking the time to watch those games,i would think that what you see on them games,is going to be a strong indicator of what to look for in the future,he has basically brought that entire staff with him.so i don't expect a whole lot of change from them,there will be adjustments for who is playing where and other adjustments too,but i expect it to be what you see,is what we will get,they had though tendencies there and probably will at UT too
 
#63
#63
Dougie_D said:
1. We will be blitzing a ton.

2. We should be able to defend screens very well.

3. QB's that are good with audibles will kill us. (Bama)

4. Our secondary will still be terrible.

5. We will block at least 2 field goals.

6. We will probably be blocked at least once.

7. The most ACCURATE thrower will win the starting job. NOT the best runner.

8. The HARDEST runner will be our best RB. Not the fastest. Break/Miss tackles will be the key.

9. Our fastest WR will be our go to guy. Route running won't be a big deal. Every other WR will basically be decoys.

10. TE's won't be a deep threat. Short passes and then they have to bulldoze through.

11. We will run screens a ton.

12. Redzone scoring will be difficult for us. It's either QB run or hope for a great pass in endzone.
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I'm sorry but you offer a poor analysis Saban. Hard to compare the two because of talent, experience level, talent of competition, etc... Especially hard to compare stuff like, expect blocked field goals and the threat of te's. A person can learn offensive plays, play calling tendencies, and defensive packages/ blitzes by looking at Cincy film. So your analysis has some legitimacy but falls short on many areas. C-

I reread what I posted and I fully believe that you analysis is terrible. Especially, when you state things like our fastest wr will be our go to guy and everybody else are decoys. That shows me that you offer nothing because you have no way of proving that conclusion. D-

I reread what I posted and I'm dead wrong. F
 
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#65
#65
Volstate said:
I determined after watching several Cincy games is that beer is best when very cold and they put too much air in the bags of chips so you need 2 bags to get you through watching all the games. <belch>
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and halftime is not long enough to make a beer run....plan accordingly.
 
#66
#66
I will preface this by pointing out that Jones has NEVER coached a team with even close to this much talent. He puts his coaching face on publicly. I am sure he knows that the SEC has more talent across the board than any other conference. But he has to be somewhat like a kid in a candy store when he sees the athletes he has (especially on the lines) compared to what he's worked with in the past.
Dougie_D said:
1. We will be blitzing a ton.
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Like any other coach... if he can get good pressure with 4 he won't blitz. If he has to take chances with blitzes... he will.

2. We should be able to defend screens very well.

3. QB's that are good with audibles will kill us. (Bama)
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So different players playing against different players and schemes MUST perform the same way, right?

4. Our secondary will still be terrible.
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Maybe... but it won't be because of anything you saw watching old Cincy games.

7. The most ACCURATE thrower will win the starting job. NOT the best runner.
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That isn't going out on a limb too much. Actually the best manager of the offense will likely be the starter.

8. The HARDEST runner will be our best RB. Not the fastest. Break/Miss tackles will be the key.
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I predict that the guy who can best use his unique skill set to gain yardage will be the best RB. If that's a power guy... or a speed guy will not matter at all.

9. Our fastest WR will be our go to guy. Route running won't be a big deal. Every other WR will basically be decoys.
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Again something you simply cannot predict using old Cincy games as a basis... except that route running WILL be a big deal when you face the quality of DB's the SEC has. That transcends scheme.

10. TE's won't be a deep threat. Short passes and then they have to bulldoze through.
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If the TE's are capable of being deep threats... they will be.

11. We will run screens a ton.
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This is probably true due to UT's youth at WR and TE but not something dictated by old Cincy games.

12. Redzone scoring will be difficult for us. It's either QB run or hope for a great pass in endzone.
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Very possibly but again not something determined by scheme or Jones' coaching philosophy. It will be determined by how good UT's OL is and how quickly the WR blocking comes along.


All in all you have attempted to make a transfer that does not work. Jones likely has some tendencies that will stay constant. OTOH, he will also adjust to the talent he has to negate weaknesses and accentuate strengths.
 
#68
#68
Dougie_D said:
1. We will be blitzing a ton.

2. We should be able to defend screens very well.

3. QB's that are good with audibles will kill us. (Bama)

4. Our secondary will still be terrible.

5. We will block at least 2 field goals.

6. We will probably be blocked at least once.

7. The most ACCURATE thrower will win the starting job. NOT the best runner.

8. The HARDEST runner will be our best RB. Not the fastest. Break/Miss tackles will be the key.

9. Our fastest WR will be our go to guy. Route running won't be a big deal. Every other WR will basically be decoys.

10. TE's won't be a deep threat. Short passes and then they have to bulldoze through.

11. We will run screens a ton.

12. Redzone scoring will be difficult for us. It's either QB run or hope for a great pass in endzone.
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All this from Just one game.:yu::boobies::rofl:
 
#69
#69
Dougie_D said:
1. We will be blitzing a ton.

If we have to. I don't think this is the case, with the DL we have.

2. We should be able to defend screens very well.

Our D will be used to practicing against them.

3. QB's that are good with audibles will kill us. (Bama)

TBD.

4. Our secondary will still be terrible.

Huh?

5. We will block at least 2 field goals.

That would be nice.

6. We will probably be blocked at least once.

That would not.

7. The most ACCURATE thrower will win the starting job. NOT the best runner.

The QB that gives us the best chance to win, with the combination of other strengths/weaknesses on the team, will start.

8. The HARDEST runner will be our best RB. Not the fastest. Break/Miss tackles will be the key.

I know why you stated this. This offense is designed to get playmakers in space and have them make a play. Big plays can be reeled off if initial contact doesn't take them down, because there are usually fewer people around for initial follow-up. The better statement would be, the RB that can make initial defender miss, and then run like the wind, will most likely start.

9. Our fastest WR will be our go to guy. Route running won't be a big deal. Every other WR will basically be decoys.

Hmmm... No.

10. TE's won't be a deep threat. Short passes and then they have to bulldoze through.

Hmmm... No.

11. We will run screens a ton.

The offense is designed for a lot of them. They are there to force the defense to defend the width of the field. It's not a bad thing.

12. Redzone scoring will be difficult for us. It's either QB run or hope for a great pass in endzone.

In actuality, red zone scoring is harder for everyone. I do not agree with your reasons for stating this.
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OK... I'll jump on too. Sorry.
 
#71
#71
Ok.. geeze. I'm just an AVERAGE football guy. For all the football gurus, if you looked at Cincy games, Orange and White, etc... what are your thoughts? I never said I was correct. Just my thoughts on what I saw.
 
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#72
#72
I think you will see a similar offensive philosophy but the details will be tailored to the talent UT has and the competition they play.

I think you will see a Chavis like "bend don't break" defensive philosophy. Hopefully it will incorporate some of Wilcox's methods for disguising the play.
 
#73
#73
Dougie_D said:
I'm predicting whoever is the most ACCURATE passer will be our QB. I don't think the mobility is much of a factor. It helps for sure...meaning the QB can't be shy about running the ball, but they don't have to be actually good at it. Just the most accurate passer. Which one is that?
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I disagree, if you have a mobile QB, a busted play is more times than not a 1st down. Nathan has the wheels to be a good one, Justin might be ahead as far as passing but it still remains to be seen. I'd take my chances with a mobile QB over a pure pocket passer 65% of the time, Unless that QB is say, P Manning :)
 
#75
#75
volnal said:
I disagree, if you have a mobile QB, a busted play is more times than not a 1st down. Nathan has the wheels to be a good one, Justin might be ahead as far as passing but it still remains to be seen. I'd take my chances with a mobile QB over a pure pocket passer 65% of the time, Unless that QB is say, P Manning :)
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You may be overestimating the difference in their ability to run. Neither will be confused for Tee or Heath running the football... nor will they be confused with Peyton or Casey. Both are sort of in the Crompton range if I am not mistaken.
 
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