Randy Sanders comments about procure penalties

[patrick]

I heard a sound clip today of questions that were posed to Randy about the offensive procedure penalties. He waffled significantly. He said, well it was partly his fault because he was the coordinator and then in the same breath he blamed the players.

There is clearly a lot of blame to go around however in situations like these I think he should have stepped up and said I am the o-coordinator and it is my fault.

More importantly, Sanders was asked "how do you fix the problem?" Sanders said "I don't know". I cannot believe that he said that but he did. This tells me that the offensive coaching staff with one exception (TT) needs to be changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[utvolpj]

So, RS calls for the play to go on 2 and the OL goes on 1 and it's totally his fault? Procedure penalties are from lack of concentration. If UT had changed QB's then you could maybe blame it on the cadence. Maybe it's RS fault for assuming they can count? People seem to be grasping at straws here.

Also, eventually someone is going to have to explain TT's COACHING ability to me. I see he is a good recruiter and gets the guys fired up on the sidelines. But I haven't seen anything extraordinary from a coaching standpoint.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by utvolpj@Oct 26, 2005 12:56 PM
So, RS calls for the play to go on 2 and the OL goes on 1 and it's totally his fault?  Procedure penalties are from lack of concentration.  If UT had changed QB's then you could maybe blame it on the cadence.  Maybe it's RS fault for assuming they can count?  People seem to be grasping at straws here.

Also, eventually someone is going to have to explain TT's COACHING ability to me.  I see he is a good recruiter and gets the guys fired up on the sidelines.  But I haven't seen anything extraordinary from a coaching standpoint.

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Execution, players peforming their jobs properly, repeatedly, and in harmony with the others, is ABSOLUTELY A DIRECT RESULT OF COACHING. That is what coaches do. Play calling and all of this other stuff is minute compared to execution. Aside from talent, EXECUTION is what well-coached teams do. THAT IS COACHING.

What is so special about TT needing to be a proven football coach? None of the rest of the staff is? Pat Washington can't coach or recruit.

I think it can be tough to evaluate the coaching of a position coach from just watching games. It takes some time, IMO. However, I believe the RBs have gotten better since he has been here. Cedric was better and so was Riggs. But I agree, in that at some point he will need to be an addition to the staff's intellectual ability as well as a rah rah guy.

 

[patrick]

You missed the main point!!!!!! Sanders admitted he does not know how to fix the freakin problem!!!!! That is a major problem.

Here is a solution................... if you commit a procedure penalty you sit your tail on the bench........... and you run sprints until you spew

 

[volbrian]

Originally posted by patrick@Oct 26, 2005 1:03 PM
You missed the main point!!!!!!  Sanders admitted he does not know how to fix the freakin problem!!!!!  That is a major problem. 

Here is a solution...................  if you commit a procedure penalty you sit your tail on the bench........... and you run sprints until you spew

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Ok. Then we are pissin and moanin about the all SEC Lineman we took out of the game and replaced him with one who isnt nearly as good. He cant run block as well so we cant run. He cant pass block as well and we cant pass.

Either way, we are pissing and moaning about something.

 

[utvolpj]

Originally posted by Liper@Oct 26, 2005 1:01 PM
Execution, players peforming their jobs properly, repeatedly, and in harmony with the others, is ABSOLUTELY A DIRECT RESULT OF COACHING.  That is what coaches do.  Play calling and all of this other stuff is minute compared to execution.  Aside from talent, EXECUTION is what well-coached teams do.  THAT IS COACHING.

What is so special about TT needing to be a proven football coach?  None of the rest of the staff is?  Pat Washington can't coach or recruit.

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So are the 2 fumbles inside the 10 yard line a direct result of coaching too? TT says they practice it everyday but it still happens.

Look, I'm a TT fan and on the fence about RS. I do think things happen in a game that are beyond the coaches control. Procedure penalties with a lapse in concentration on the snap count. Fumbles happen when you forget to put 2 hands on the ball inside the 5. Not all blame always goes on the coach.

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by patrick@Oct 26, 2005 12:25 PM
I heard a sound clip today of questions that were posed to Randy about the offensive procedure penalties.  He waffled significantly.  He said, well it was partly his fault because he was the coordinator and then in the same breath he blamed the players.

There is clearly a lot of blame to go around however in situations like these I think he should have stepped up and said I am the o-coordinator and it is my fault.

More importantly, Sanders was asked "how do you fix the problem?"   Sanders said "I don't know".  I cannot believe that he said that but he did.  This tells me that the offensive coaching staff with one exception (TT) needs to be changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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He spoke the truth, he honestly does not know. Thusly, this on going arguement over his ability to do the job is answered. By himself!

 

[volbrian]

I would like to know from some of you, if you are a coach, you preach to your team, all week long the importance of hanging on to the football. You run drill after drill, play after play, punishing them after each time they fumble, up until the point that they finally begin to hold on to the ball to your liking. AND THEN, they get into a game and fumble.

How do you folks fix that problem?

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by volbrian@Oct 26, 2005 1:41 PM
I would like to know from some of you, if you are a coach, you preach to your team, all week long the importance of hanging on to the football.  You run drill after drill, play after play, punishing them after each time they fumble, up until the point that they finally begin to hold on to the ball to your liking.  AND THEN, they get into a game and fumble. 

How do you folks fix that problem?

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Entire team on the stadium Steps at 5 a.m.. Every day until it stops!!! Next question.

 

[volbrian]

ANd if they still fumble?

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by volbrian@Oct 26, 2005 1:46 PM
ANd if they still fumble?

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Stadium Steps at 4 a.m. and sit their ass on the pine.

 

[Liper]

Originally posted by utvolpj@Oct 26, 2005 1:26 PM
So are the 2 fumbles inside the 10 yard line a direct result of coaching too?  TT says they practice it everyday but it still happens.

Look, I'm a TT fan and on the fence about RS.  I do think things happen in a game that are beyond the coaches control.  Procedure penalties with a lapse in concentration on the snap count.  Fumbles happen when you forget to put 2 hands on the ball inside the 5.  Not all blame always goes on the coach.

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Were the fumbles the players or the coaches? That's tough; obviously the players are culpible. But this answer goes deeper.

When players are motivated, trained, confident, and trying to WIN instead of NOT MAKE MISTAKES, they play better. Now, that is a very subjective thing; but anyone who's played sports at a high level knows this is true. Our players are UNPREPARED and SCARED OF MAKING MISTAKES. That is the worst of all worlds. This is the EXACT reason why Spurrier owned Foulmer's ass all of those years. Not only are our players unsure of what to do, they are bemoaned to not mess up. Not only do good coaches out-scheme and out-prepare us (our offense mostly), but their players tend to just flat-out play to more of their potential.

Why did TN seem to make all of thise mistakes when they played FL and no one else? And why did FL seem to play their best or one of their best games against us? I mean, FL's skill didn't make Jay Graham fumble on a 3 and 1 dive play; Fl's skill didn't make balls bounce off of people's legs and into James Bates hands; or how many of the other supposed "poorly executed" things that always happened.

My point is that, YES, I think our GENERAL lack of execution and whatever else is coaching. Now, we could nit-pick one play like a fumble and say it isn't coaching; and that would be fair. But the systemic problems are there and they pre-date this supposed drop-off and they pre-date RS. They are just more magnified now because of: (1) Cutcliffe is gone and left a void on the staff and (2) We have less talent in key spots such as QB.

I'm with Patrick, however (and I have always noticed this). RS doesn't understand why we're playing bad and neither does Fulmer. Since they are delusional about their influence on our past successes, the only thing they can think is to blame the players. When we play well, they don't know why. When we played bad, they don't know why.

 

[volbrian]

Originally posted by donsargegolf@Oct 26, 2005 1:47 PM
Stadium Steps at 4 a.m. and sit their ass on the pine.

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Well lets see, I counted 4 different fumbles Saturday. So you are advocating benching both first and 2nd string TBs, the starting FB and the starting KO/PUNT returner.

No wonder you arent a coach.

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by Liper@Oct 26, 2005 1:47 PM
Were the fumbles the players or the coaches?  That's tough; obviously the players are culpible.  But this answer goes deeper.

When players are motivated, trained, confident, and trying to WIN instead of NOT MAKE MISTAKES, they play better.  Now, that is a very subjective thing; but anyone who's played sports at a high level knows this is true.  Our players are UNPREPARED and SCARED OF MAKING MISTAKES.  That is the worst of all worlds.  This is the EXACT reason why Spurrier owned Foulmer's ass all of those years.  Not only are our players unsure of what to do, they are bemoaned to not mess up.  Not only do good coaches out-scheme and out-prepare us (our offense mostly), but their players tend to just flat-out play to more of their potential.

Why did TN seem to make all of thise mistakes when they played FL and no one else?  And why did FL seem to play their best or one of their best games against us?  I mean, FL's skill didn't make Jay Graham fumble on a 3 and 1 dive play; Fl's skill didn't make balls bounce off of people's legs and into James Bates hands; or how many of the other supposed "poorly executed" things that always happened.

My point is that, YES, I think our GENERAL lack of execution and whatever else is coaching.  Now, we could nit-pick one play like a fumble and say it isn't coaching; and that would be fair.  But the systemic problems are there and they pre-date this supposed drop-off and they pre-date RS.  They are just more magnified now because of: (1) Cutcliffe is gone and left a void on the staff and (2) We have less talent in key spots such as QB.

I'm with Patrick, however (and I have always noticed this).  RS doesn't understand why we're playing bad and neither does Fulmer.  Since they are delusional about their influence on our past successes, the only thing they can think is to blame the players.  When we play well, they don't know why.  When we played bad, they don't know why.

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That is due to lack of football knowledge. Ever hear Lombardi, Belichick, etc say they don't know? Doubt it.

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by volbrian@Oct 26, 2005 1:50 PM
Well lets see, I counted 4 different fumbles Saturday.  So you are advocating benching both first and 2nd string TBs, the starting FB and the starting KO/PUNT returner.

No wonder you arent a coach.

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When you have re-occuring mistakes,Sears and his ump-teen false starts you bench their ass,period. This candy ass,performance based mentality is a problem in our society. Be accountable for your F*#% Ups, and pay the price.!

 

[volbrian]

Originally posted by donsargegolf@Oct 26, 2005 1:54 PM
When you have re-occuring mistakes,Sears and his ump-teen false starts you bench their ass,period. This candy ass,performance based mentality is a problem in our society. Be accountable for your F*#% Ups, and pay the price.!

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Ok SO now, you have benched our top 2 TBs, our starting FB, our starting Return man and now, our all SEC lineman.

Yeah! Sounds like a winning formula to me. Exactly what our Offense needs.

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by volbrian@Oct 26, 2005 2:01 PM
Ok  SO now, you have benched our top 2 TBs, our starting FB, our starting Return man and now, our all SEC lineman. 

Yeah!   Sounds like a winning formula to me.  Exactly what our Offense needs.

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Hey VolBrian, with respect ,if these players jump off sides, fumble, in the red zone, forget the snap count and throw passes beyond the line of scrimmage... they are NOT our best players. Any coach of moderate success will discipline them through extra work or lack of playing time. Phil, players coach that he is, does not do this and over the last 7 years we're paying the price for it!!! No discipline, common reoccurring penalties, UT Football!

 

[patrick]

There are a number of high profile coaches that bench players when they screw up. Nevertheless, I believe that when there are so many glarring problems with a team, it is not the players, it is the coaching.

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by patrick@Oct 26, 2005 4:00 PM
There are a number of high profile coaches that bench players when they screw up.  Nevertheless, I believe that when there are so many glarring problems with a team, it is not the players, it is the coaching.

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On the Nose there Patrick. This is a viscious cycle of neither party taking ownership and accountability for crappy performances. :no:

 

[gonygonygo]

Bill Parcells is a no-nosense coach. So is Tom Coughlin and Bill Cowher. You dont see those guys putting up with mediocracy. If they have a problem, they fix it or you dont see that player anymore on gameday, plain and simple.

Fulmer has no discipline on this team. No matter what kind of job his coaches are doing, it all comes back to him because he is the one who is in charge. If a coach is not performing properly, then it is his job to handle the problem from within. He would know who is doing a good/bad job since he is there EVERYDAY.

Things like fumbling and foul start penalties are fundamental problems of the players. Therefore, they can be corrected. Sometimes you have to sit a "star" player to make an example so the rest of the players take you seriously. It's all a part of team discipline.

Besides, these positions (TB FB OL) you are claiming to be critical are not positions that we have "stars" at in the first place. If you ask me, they are overrated. If they were that good, they would be able to overcome those mistakes- I dont care who they are up against since how good they are is relative to their competition on the field.

 

[gonygonygo]

On the other hand, there's only so much a coach can do. His job is to have his players "prepared" to play. The actual game is out of the hands of the coaching (besides personell and play-calling).

I defend Randy Sanders because I think he is doing a decent job with what he has to work with. OL can't pass block nor open holes for the running game. Running backs can't hold onto the ball nor break a tackle. Wide receivers are dropping passes nor can they beat the coverage. The quarterback cannot keep the pace up tempo so that we dont have delay of game penalties.

The biggest problem we have is the lack of a quality quarterback...

Clausen:
manages the game well; keeps cool under pressure; is highly inaccurate; doesn't have the arm strength to give a deep threat; sometimes makes bad decisions in the heat of battle

Ainge:
inconsistent; has good arm strength; has yet to impress me with his accuracy; folds up like a leaf under pressure; also makes stupid decisions in the heat of battle

 

[donsargegolf]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Oct 26, 2005 4:51 PM
On the other hand, there's only so much a coach can do.  His job is to have his players "prepared" to play.  The actual game is out of the hands of the coaching (besides personell and play-calling). 

I defend Randy Sanders because I think he is doing a decent job with what he has to work with.  OL can't pass block nor open holes for the running game.  Running backs can't hold onto the ball nor break a tackle.  Wide receivers are dropping passes nor can they beat the coverage.  The quarterback cannot keep the pace up tempo so that we dont have delay of game penalties. 

The biggest problem we have is the lack of a quality quarterback...

Clausen:
manages the game well; keeps cool under pressure; is highly inaccurate; doesn't have the arm strength to give a deep threat; sometimes makes bad decisions in the heat of battle

Ainge:
inconsistent; has good arm strength; has yet to impress me with his accuracy; folds up like a leaf under pressure; also makes stupid decisions in the heat of battle

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How can you defend an OC who can barely get personel on the field and get a play called at the same time? Not to mention if the play is the right one.

 

[volbrian]

Originally posted by gonygonygo@Oct 26, 2005 4:51 PM
On the other hand, there's only so much a coach can do.  His job is to have his players "prepared" to play.  The actual game is out of the hands of the coaching (besides personell and play-calling). 

I defend Randy Sanders because I think he is doing a decent job with what he has to work with.  OL can't pass block nor open holes for the running game.  Running backs can't hold onto the ball nor break a tackle.  Wide receivers are dropping passes nor can they beat the coverage.  The quarterback cannot keep the pace up tempo so that we dont have delay of game penalties. 

The biggest problem we have is the lack of a quality quarterback...

Clausen:
manages the game well; keeps cool under pressure; is highly inaccurate; doesn't have the arm strength to give a deep threat; sometimes makes bad decisions in the heat of battle

Ainge:
inconsistent; has good arm strength; has yet to impress me with his accuracy; folds up like a leaf under pressure; also makes stupid decisions in the heat of battle

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That is about as fair of an assessment of the 2 QBs as I have read. Good job!

 

[donsargegolf]

His "lack of players" is his own fault as well. They pay him handsomely to recruit offensive players. Cutcliffe was instrumental in the recruitment of Shuler, Manning and Martin. Wake up RS, this is the second complete class of players to graduate on your watch. Maybe RS cannot recruit either because we know he cannot coach!

 

[gonygonygo]

Originally posted by donsargegolf@Oct 26, 2005 5:02 PM
How can you defend an OC who can barely get personel on the field and get a play called at the same time? Not to mention if the play is the right one.

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Ok, you have a point with that, but you cant fire a coach on that alone... Give me a better argument besides that. What about the play execution?? Or any of the other points i brought up...