Rashida Tlaib’s THOBE, and Ilhan Omar’s HIJAB, are making congressional history

#602
#602
Rasputin_Vol said:
She hasn't done or said a single thing that is worthy of being called an anti-Semite. You are being disingenuous to even suggest otherwise.
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She's definitely said things that make it more reasonable that it otherwise would be to suggest that she's anti-Semitic. She's certainly anti-Zionist, which gets equated (falsely) with being an anti-Semite.

If I were her, I'd definitely take a different approach in making my argument. What she's doing is the equivalent of waving a Confederate flag around then wondering why black people don't like it. She isn't necessarily anti-Semitic for saying this stuff, but I'd make my argument differently.
 
#607
#607
05_never_again said:
I suppose you could say the dual allegiance stuff and not genuinely be an anti-Semite, but dual allegiance is a claim that obvious anti-Semites have used over the centuries to demonize Jews. It's similar in form to what Marc Lamont Hill went down for - in a speech at the UN, he said "We have an opportunity to not just offer solidarity in words but to commit to political action, grass-roots action, local action and international action that will give us what justice requires and that is a free Palestine from the river to the sea."

"From the river to the sea" is a rhetorical device used all the time by Hamas and other groups that have openly called for Israel to cease to exist - they use that phrase as a Tennessee fan would say "Go Vols," "Go Big Orange," "Rocky Top," or "Fire Butch Jones." I don't know if he's actually an anti-Semite or not, but he made the association very easy by using that phrase.
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I'm no Marc Lamont Hill fan, but his firing was on some weak sauce, also.

Point seems to be that even though several Israelis do carry dual citizenship with the United States, that is an off limits discussion to have for most of you. Also seems like you can't speak about their disproportionate numbers in media or banking, nor criticize the land boundaries of the State of Israel.
 
#611
#611
I think a lot of her comments are blown out of proportion. It is a little bit crazy you can’t really criticize Israel w/o being called an anti-Semite(the phrasing and words she uses could be better). With that being said, I do believe she’s an anti-Zionist, which many people consider that and anti-semitism the same thing.

I’m curious though what people think about this quote
I don’t want money, so, therefore, you’re not going to support me because, stupidly, you want to give money,” Trump said. “You want to control your own politician
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which was said to a crowd at the Republican Jewish Coalition
 
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#613
#613
bamawriter said:
She said "dual-allegience." The word "citizen" didn't appear in anything that I've read. But if you saw something I didn't, I'm willing to stand corrected.

For what it's worth, the "dual-allegience" canard has not only been the realm of antisemites. It's been used against all manner of groups, particularly religions. There were all kinds of anti-Catholic bigots who ranted that the US would become a vassal of the Holy See if Kennedy became president. He certainly didn't have dual-citizenship.
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You do realize that Israel does allow dual-citizenship, correct? I assume that may have been aimed towards that realization with several people of influence in our country.
 
#614
#614
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm no Marc Lamont Hill fan, but his firing was on some weak sauce, also.

Point seems to be that even though several Israelis do carry dual citizenship with the United States, that is an off limits discussion to have for most of you. Also seems like you can't speak about their disproportionate numbers in media or banking, nor criticize the land boundaries of the State of Israel.
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Oh, I don't really disagree with you about his firing. I don't know if he's anti-Semitic or not. I don't believe he had a history of making questionable comments like that. I'm surprised he used that phrase though, because it made him a really easy target.

Also, as far as their disproportionate numbers in certain professions or dual citizenship, I don't think it is off limits at all to simply mention that as a fact. There are all sorts of demographics that are over represented in all kinds of different things. The key is if you are implying something else by bringing it up (e.g., the reason Jews are over-represented in banking and media is because there's a Jewish conspiracy to control the world).
 
#615
#615
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait... this is breaking news. Does Obama have dual-citizenship to Kenya or Indonesia?
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You're too hung up on this "citizenship" thing. As bamawriter said I'm not aware she used the term "dual citizenship." She spoke of Jews having allegiance or pledging support to a foreign country. Like I said above, that doesn't necessarily make her anti-Semitic. What she's doing is the equivalent of a white conservative waving a Confederate flag, then claiming confusion when it turns out that makes black people upset. That Confederate flag waver isn't necessarily a racist, IMO, but they should probably change their approach. Just as the KKK took the Confederate Battle Flag and made it a symbol of theirs, anti-Semitic groups have used charges of dual loyalty, among other things, in their tropes against Jews.

The charge was frequently made against Obama that he was secretly a Muslim who was going to take down the country, etc. It wasn't acceptable when directed at him either, and I'm pretty sure he isn't Jewish.
 
#616
#616
05_never_again said:
She's definitely said things that make it more reasonable that it otherwise would be to suggest that she's anti-Semitic. She's certainly anti-Zionist, which gets equated (falsely) with being an anti-Semite.

If I were her, I'd definitely take a different approach in making my argument. What she's doing is the equivalent of waving a Confederate flag around then wondering why black people don't like it. She isn't necessarily anti-Semitic for saying this stuff, but I'd make my argument differently.
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Like you said, anti-Semitism is different than anti-Zionism. Zionism is a corruptive and dangerous ideology that rightfully deserves disdain and criticism.
 
#617
#617
Vol8188 said:
Can you at least see why hypnotize is bothersome?
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Not really. It was a choice of words. I wouldn't say poorly chosen because in the heat of the moment, I doubt she was clever enough to make the connection that you are apparently trying to make.

I hate having to be put in a position where I have to defend Trump from leftwing snowflakes and people like Kaepernick and Omar from rightwing snowflakes because both sides try way to hard to make mountains out of ant hills.
 
#618
#618
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not really. It was a choice of words. I wouldn't say poorly chosen because in the heat of the moment, I doubt she was clever enough to make the connection that you are apparently trying to make.

I hate having to be put in a position where I have to defend Trump from leftwing snowflakes and people like Kaepernick and Omar from rightwing snowflakes because both sides try way to hard to make mountains out of ant hills.
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? What do you mean heat of the moment?
 
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#619
#619
Rasputin_Vol said:
Like you said, anti-Semitism is different than anti-Zionism. Zionism is a corruptive and dangerous ideology that rightfully deserves disdain and criticism.
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Omar should know, perhaps better than your average person, that while not every anti-Zionist is anti-Semitic, every anti-Semite is anti-Zionist. Like I said, she should change her approach to arguing her point, especially if she isn't anti-Semitic.

What she's doing is the equivalent of a Tea Partier going to a rally and waving a Confederate flag as a show of "Southern pride," independence from government, etc., and not understanding the potential racist implications of it. It just isn't the best way to get your message across.
 
#620
#620
Rasputin_Vol said:
She hasn't done or said a single thing that is worthy of being called an anti-Semite. You are being disingenuous to even suggest otherwise.
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I'm not saying that you should or must reach the conclusion I've reached. I'm not interested in convincing you to think any particular thing. But the only disingenuous part of this conversation is you acting like you can't even remotely see why I, and others, have reached the conclusion we've reached.
 
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#622
#622
Rasputin_Vol said:
You do realize that Israel does allow dual-citizenship, correct? I assume that may have been aimed towards that realization with several people of influence in our country.
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If she was talking about dual-citizenship, she should have said so. For someone who is insisting that we take her words at face value, you are being equally insistent that she meant words that she didn't actually use.
 
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#625
#625
05_never_again said:
Is it perfectly in bounds for gentiles? People did that with Obama and it wasn't accepted.

The dual loyalty allegation about Jews is a long-term trope that has been used over the years. That they're really loyal to Israel, not the United States (or any other country), and they'll sell out non-Jews in an attempt to advance Israel or Jews at the expense of non-Jews. I'm not aware of that being a historical stereotype of Russians.
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So, I’m essence, no one can even question the loyalty of a Jew or its Anti-Semitic?
 
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