Rashida Tlaib’s THOBE, and Ilhan Omar’s HIJAB, are making congressional history

#551
#551
Pacer92 said:
Slur?

How is that a slur?
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Nations dating back to antiquity have accused their Jewish populations of "dual" or "wavering" allegiance in order to suppress them or, in many cases, outright steal from them.

There's lots of reading you can do on the subject, but if you'd like a book that looks at the issue as a part of the greater history and not specifically about the antisemitic events, I highly recommend The Plantagenets by Dan Jones. There is a lot about the Expulsion of the Jews by Edward I ("Longshanks" for you Braveheart fans).
 
#552
#552
Pacer92 said:
From what she’s said, it seems she’s drawing attention to something that needs to be addressed. People with dual citizenship’s should not be working for the American government. And the amount of influence the Jewish lobbies have in Washington is too big...
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She wasn't talking about dual-citizenship.
 
#553
#553
bamawriter said:
Nations dating back to antiquity have accused their Jewish populations of "dual" or "wavering" allegiance in order to suppress them or, in many cases, outright steal from them.

There's lots of reading you can do on the subject, but if you'd like a book that looks at the issue as a part of the greater history and not specifically about the antisemitic events, I highly recommend The Plantagenets by Dan Jones. There is a lot about the Expulsion of the Jews by Edward I ("Longshanks" for you Braveheart fans).
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I get that it can be an anti-Semitic trope, especially when lobbed against people solely because they're Jewish. But how can you denying that there are people, like Ben Shapiro, who are on the record saying part of being "really Jewish" is identifying with Israel. Omar's comment took issue with people advocating this position. She didn't say every Jew advocated for this position. She didn't say all or most advocate for this. She simply took issue with Americans advocating for allegiance to other countries. That is a reasonable view. Not my view, but a reasonable view. Like I said, I think dual loyalties in the modern world are fine if not antagonistic.
 
#554
#554
Pacer92 said:
From what she’s said, it seems she’s drawing attention to something that needs to be addressed. People with dual citizenship’s should not be working for the American government. And the amount of influence the Jewish lobbies have in Washington is too big...
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I’d take her seriously if she wasn’t a hardcore Somali Muslim actually elected to a position of power in this country. She’s far more dangerous than any dual status Jew.
 
#555
#555
bamawriter said:
Nations dating back to antiquity have accused their Jewish populations of "dual" or "wavering" allegiance in order to suppress them or, in many cases, outright steal from them.

There's lots of reading you can do on the subject, but if you'd like a book that looks at the issue as a part of the greater history and not specifically about the antisemitic events, I highly recommend The Plantagenets by Dan Jones. There is a lot about the Expulsion of the Jews by Edward I ("Longshanks" for you Braveheart fans).
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I don’t think her intentions were about suppressing or stealing..

There are legitimate concerns of Israeli power in Washington. People must be able to question without it being labeled hate speech...
 
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#556
#556
so people have it handy, this is the actual quote that she's in hot water for:

“I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country.”
 
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#557
#557
evillawyer said:
I get that it can be an anti-Semitic trope, especially when lobbed against people solely because they're Jewish. But how can you denying that there are people, like Ben Shapiro, who are on the record saying part of being "really Jewish" is identifying with Israel. Omar's comment took issue with people advocating this position. She didn't say every Jew advocated for this position. She didn't say all or most advocate for this. She simply took issue with Americans advocating for allegiance to other countries. That is a reasonable view. Not my view, but a reasonable view. Like I said, I think dual loyalties in the modern world are fine if not antagonistic.
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I don't agree with Shapiro, either. But, not being Jewish, I don't get where he's coming from.

As for Omar, if that was her only problematic statement, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she chose her words poorly. But, coupled with all of the other old Jewish libel she's trotted out, I can't strain credulity that far.
 
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#558
#558
Pacer92 said:
From what she’s said, it seems she’s drawing attention to something that needs to be addressed. People with dual citizenship’s should not be working for the American government. And the amount of influence the Jewish lobbies have in Washington is too big...
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Maybe refugees shouldn’t be either.
 
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#560
#560
Pacer92 said:
I don’t think her intentions were about suppressing or stealing..

There are legitimate concerns of Israeli power in Washington. People must be able to question without it being labeled hate speech...
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Then she needs to express those concerns without resorting to centuries-old libel.
 
#562
#562
bamawriter said:
Then she needs to express those concerns without resorting to centuries-old libel.
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And how does she do that? It seems that any concern expressed with regards to Israel, AIPAC or the grotesque amount of US tax dollars going to the holy land...is volleyed back with charges of hate and antisemiticism..
 
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#563
#563
Pacer92 said:
And how does she do that? It seems that any concern expressed with regards to Israel, AIPAC or the grotesque amount of US tax dollars going to the holy land...is volleyed back with charges of hate and antisemiticism..
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She could start by taking words like "hypnotize" out of her lexicon when discussing the subject.
 
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#566
#566
Pacer92 said:
I’m not sure I understand unless I see the whole quote...
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#567
#567
Pacer92 said:
Slur?

How is that a slur?
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I suppose you could say the dual allegiance stuff and not genuinely be an anti-Semite, but dual allegiance is a claim that obvious anti-Semites have used over the centuries to demonize Jews. It's similar in form to what Marc Lamont Hill went down for - in a speech at the UN, he said "We have an opportunity to not just offer solidarity in words but to commit to political action, grass-roots action, local action and international action that will give us what justice requires and that is a free Palestine from the river to the sea."

"From the river to the sea" is a rhetorical device used all the time by Hamas and other groups that have openly called for Israel to cease to exist - they use that phrase as a Tennessee fan would say "Go Vols," "Go Big Orange," "Rocky Top," or "Fire Butch Jones." I don't know if he's actually an anti-Semite or not, but he made the association very easy by using that phrase.
 
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#568
#568
05_never_again said:
I suppose you could say the dual allegiance stuff and not genuinely be an anti-Semite, but dual allegiance is a claim that obvious anti-Semites have used over the centuries to demonize Jews. It's similar in form to what Marc Lamont Hill went down for - in a speech at the UN, he said "We have an opportunity to not just offer solidarity in words but to commit to political action, grass-roots action, local action and international action that will give us what justice requires and that is a free Palestine from the river to the sea."

"From the river to the sea" is a rhetorical device used all the time by Hamas and other groups that have openly called for Israel to cease to exist - they use that phrase as a Tennessee fan would say "Go Vols," "Go Big Orange," "Rocky Top," or "Fire Butch Jones." I don't know if he's actually an anti-Semite or not, but he made the association very easy by using that phrase.
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Exactly.

I don't agree with anyone who says that criticism of Israel is obviously antisemitic. Not all critics of Israel are antisemitic. But, conversely, all antisemites are critical of Israel. And the creation of the Jewish State has been an unintended boon to those antisemites, because they can now shroud their bigotry by simply replacing the word "Jews" with "Israel." But simply sliding the word "Israel" into the grossest of slurs doesn't make it anything other than a slur. If you are a critic of Israel, but not an antisemite, then it is incumbent upon you to avoid using those slurs.
 
#569
#569
bamawriter said:
Exactly.

I don't agree with anyone who says that criticism of Israel is obviously antisemitic. Not all critics of Israel are antisemitic. But, conversely, all antisemites are critical of Israel. And the creation of the Jewish State has been an unintended boon to those antisemites, because they can now shroud their bigotry by simply replacing the word "Jews" with "Israel." But simply sliding the word "Israel" into the grossest of slurs doesn't make it anything other than a slur. If you are a critic of Israel, but not an antisemite, then it is incumbent upon you to avoid using those slurs.
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Yep. Agree 100%. I'm reminded of a phrase I heard once that said "I suppose you could be a Holocaust denier and not be anti-Semitic, but every Holocaust denier I've ever known has been an anti-Semite." That's an extreme example (I mean, if you deny the Holocaust you probably are anti-Semitic) but you see the point. Not every criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic, and I think it certainly is true that a frequent retort to any critique of Israel is to call the critiquer an anti-Semite, which isn't always the case.

Defenders of Hill were quick to say that they knew him and said he wasn't anti-Semitic, or that the phrase "from the river to the sea" predates Hamas. That phrase does predate Hamas, but the Confederate Battle Flag also predates the KKK, and the KKK used that flag as a symbol of their ideology. Perhaps not, but you'd think MLH would've known better than to use that phrase, especially if he isn't anti-Semitic. If he simply paused after saying "...and that is a free Palestine...," he would've been OK, IMO.
 
#571
#571
ETV said:
I never thought I would see an elected official to the US Congress making statements such as this in a post 9/11 world.
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Admittedly she made this statement 4 years before becoming a Congressperson, and I don't think anybody really dug into her remarks on the subject until she made her "all about the benjamins" remark. She might not hang around very long in the House, primarily because she's attracting heat from many in her own party.
 
#573
#573
After I read this, I seriously doubt she'll be ousted anytime soon in the district she represents.

The 5th is also the most Democratic district in the Upper Midwest. The democrats have held the seat without interruption since 1963, and the Republicans have not tallied more than 40 percent of the vote in almost half a century.
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