reality check needed in bball thread

#127
#127
UT IE 95 said:
With these expectations? Pretty damn pro-Martin to expect to win.
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I'm well aware of your expectations, and not from someone's interpretation. I can think for myself. Your shtick is getting stale. Your expectations are we should make the tournament, Maymon or not. With Maymon, I have no doubt we would. Not having him affects us in more ways than you want to admit.
 
#128
#128
And for the record, I'm not pro-Martin or anti-Martin. I'm pro-Tennessee, and level-headed enought to realize Rome wasn't built in a day. I've said it before; you appear to want Martin to fail because it furthers your anti-Martin agenda. You wanted Izzo, Coach K, John Wooden, or Jesus to replace Pearl.

I don't like Martin's offensive philosophy personally, but I'm willing to give him a chance to tweak it. Most of all, I'm willing to give him a chance to succeed. Or to fail. You're not giving him a chance to do anything. You're content to just assume he'll fail.
 
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#129
#129
8-4 and where will the Vols be at midpoint of the SEC season? Can the Vols win 20 games before going into the SEC Tourney?
 
#130
#130
cncchris33 said:
And for the record, I'm not pro-Martin or anti-Martin. I'm pro-Tennessee, and level-headed enought to realize Rome wasn't built in a day. I've said it before; you appear to want Martin to fail because it furthers your anti-Martin agenda. You wanted Izzo, Coach K, John Wooden, or Jesus to replace Pearl.

I don't like Martin's offensive philosophy personally, but I'm willing to give him a chance to tweak it. Most of all, I'm willing to give him a chance to succeed. Or to fail. You're not giving him a chance to do anything. You're content to just assume he'll fail.
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Bottom!
 
#132
#132
cncchris33 said:
And for the record, I'm not pro-Martin or anti-Martin. I'm pro-Tennessee, and level-headed enought to realize Rome wasn't built in a day. I've said it before; you appear to want Martin to fail because it furthers your anti-Martin agenda. You wanted Izzo, Coach K, John Wooden, or Jesus to replace Pearl.

I don't like Martin's offensive philosophy personally, but I'm willing to give him a chance to tweak it. Most of all, I'm willing to give him a chance to succeed. Or to fail. You're not giving him a chance to do anything. You're content to just assume he'll fail.
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I'd love for him to tweak it. But he said this morning he's sticking with his starters and his plan is that they need to make more baskets. Doin the same thing and expecting a different result.
 
#133
#133
UT IE 95 said:
I'd love for him to tweak it. But he said this morning he's sticking with his starters and his plan is that they need to make more baskets. Doin the same thing and expecting a different result.
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Sticking with the starters doesn't mean they play the same minutes. Let's see it play out.
 
#134
#134
cncchris33 said:
Sticking with the starters doesn't mean they play the same minutes. Let's see it play out.
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Martin does seem a little thick or rigid to me.
1) McBee: You don't drop 20% in shooting percentage in a slump over 5 home games. The injury has to be affecting McBee's shot.
2) Controlled possession game. Most coaches adjust tempo to the opposition. We start every game playing SLUG ball. When playing teams that thrive on slow controlled possession, change the pace. Xavier and VA, both play slower than we do.
Xavier, we changed the pace and won. Va, we stuck with it trying to beat them at their game and we lost.
And Our shooting percentages go up when we play faster.

Ole Miss: Only 3 teams in the country play faster than Ole Miss. SLUG ball might work against them.
 
#135
#135
calban said:
Martin does seem a little thick or rigid to me.
1) McBee: You don't drop 20% in shooting percentage in a slump over 5 home games. The injury has to be affecting McBee's shot.
2) Controlled possession game. Most coaches adjust tempo to the opposition. We start every game playing SLUG ball. When playing teams that thrive on slow controlled possession, change the pace. Xavier and VA, both play slower than we do.
Xavier, we changed the pace and won. Va, we stuck with it trying to beat them at their game and we lost.
And Our shooting percentages go up when we play faster.

Ole Miss: Only 3 teams in the country play faster than Ole Miss. SLUG ball might work against them.
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The slow down pace irks me too. We have always responded well when we increase the tempo. I'm not concerned that we tried to beat Virginia at their own game and lost, because against Memphis, we tried playing their game (quicker tempo) in the second half, and nearly won. I'm more concerned that Martin feels we are more suited for a slow halfcourt pace, because I don't think we are.
 
#136
#136
cncchris33 said:
The slow down pace irks me too. We have always responded well when we increase the tempo. I'm not concerned that we tried to beat Virginia at their own game and lost, because against Memphis, we tried playing their game (quicker tempo) in the second half, and nearly won. I'm more concerned that Martin feels we are more suited for a slow halfcourt pace, because I don't think we are.
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Ole Miss will be interesting.
They like it fast.
How long will we stay in slow mo?
Will we change before it's too late this time?
 
#137
#137
I'm not convinced that Cuonzo necessarily wants us to play a slow down style of offense. He seems to be pretty liberal when it comes to our shot selections, so I've always assumed that he didn't mind letting our guys freelance a little on offense. However, with that said, I think his hand has been forced to encourage his players to pick up the pace on offense after seeing how effective it's been the times we've employed it this year (and last year if you go back to the beginning of the season). My feeling is that he's concerned that a frantic pace on offense will carry over to the defensive side and result in sloppy play. I think you can have it both ways.
 
#138
#138
So if we push the ball like everyone is wanting to do who is going to be a shot maker that consistantly makes mid range and outside shots? I think every one is forgetting that we have yet to see one person make shots consistantly. McRae has his nights here and there and Richardson was a horrible shooter last year. I think Martin wants to push it more but I also think he is just not confident that we can do it for a whole game.
 
#139
#139
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
So if we push the ball like everyone is wanting to do who is going to be a shot maker that consistantly makes mid range and outside shots? I think every one is forgetting that we have yet to see one person make shots consistantly. McRae has his nights here and there and Richardson was a horrible shooter last year. I think Martin wants to push it more but I also think he is just not confident that we can do it for a whole game.
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Pushing the ball at a faster tempo should result in more transition baskets and drives. The reason the offense struggles now, is because we slow down the pace and allow teams to set up in a zone or a sagging, tight man defense, resulting in clogged up driving lanes which forces us to shoot from the perimeter, where we are obviously ineffective.

In short, I don't see how a faster pace translates to a higher percentage of outside shots. Richardson is one of the most effective mid-range guys I've seen in a long time, so I'd elect him for that job.
 
#140
#140
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
So if we push the ball like everyone is wanting to do who is going to be a shot maker that consistantly makes mid range and outside shots? I think every one is forgetting that we have yet to see one person make shots consistantly. McRae has his nights here and there and Richardson was a horrible shooter last year. I think Martin wants to push it more but I also think he is just not confident that we can do it for a whole game.
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Richardson was horrible on offense last year. Have you seen him this year?
 
#141
#141
cncchris33 said:
Pushing the ball at a faster tempo should result in more transition baskets and drives. The reason the offense struggles now, is because we slow down the pace and allow teams to set up in a zone or a sagging, tight man defense, resulting in clogged up driving lanes which forces us to shoot from the perimeter, where we are obviously ineffective.

In short, I don't see how a faster pace translates to a higher percentage of outside shots. Richardson is one of the most effective mid-range guys I've seen in a long time, so I'd elect him for that job.
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Richardson's shown a developing 12 -15 jump shot in the last couple of games. He's really impressed me this year.
Like to see more of Reese. supposed to be a good passer and with his wingspan could probably distribute from the FT line.
McRae finds the lanes in a faster paced game.
 
#142
#142
calban said:
Richardson's shown a developing 12 -15 jump shot in the last couple of games. He's really impressed me this year.
Like to see more of Reese. supposed to be a good passer and with his wingspan could probably distribute from the FT line.
McRae finds the lanes in a faster paced game.
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Agree. Again, I see no correlation between a faster tempo and more outside shots.
 
#144
#144
Anyone else notice that our two games against Bama, Ole Miss, and Vandy are all coming in two-week stretches? I don't like that. I think it will make it harder for anyone to sweep, which is what we need to do against some of these teams.

I see 10-8 in league play in our future. I hope the guys outdo that, because I don't think 10-8 will be quite enough. The eight losses are splits against Bama, Ole Miss, and Vandy, two losses to UK, a loss to Missouri, and losses at TAMU and Arky. And, a win over UF, because we somehow manage to usually do that, and it's at home. Some of the results may change, such as beating TAMU and losing to UF, but I think 10-8 is a fair estimate.
 
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#145
#145
ukvols said:
Anyone else notice that our two games against Bama, Ole Miss, and Vandy are all coming in two-week stretches? I don't like that. I think it will make it harder for anyone to sweep, which is what we need to do against some of these teams.

I see 10-8 in league play in our future. I hope the guys outdo that, because I don't think 10-8 will be quite enough. The eight losses are splits against Bama, Ole Miss, and Vandy, two losses to UK, a loss to Missouri, and losses at TAMU and Arky. And, a win over UF, because we somehow manage to usually do that, and it's at home. Some of the results may change, such as beating TAMU and losing to UF, but I think 10-8 is a fair estimate.
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If we lose to Vandy we don't deserve to make the dance.
 
#146
#146
cncchris33 said:
Pushing the ball at a faster tempo should result in more transition baskets and drives. The reason the offense struggles now, is because we slow down the pace and allow teams to set up in a zone or a sagging, tight man defense, resulting in clogged up driving lanes which forces us to shoot from the perimeter, where we are obviously ineffective.

In short, I don't see how a faster pace translates to a higher percentage of outside shots. Richardson is one of the most effective mid-range guys I've seen in a long time, so I'd elect him for that job.
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If we start driving to the basket more defenses will start collapsing then we should have more wide open outside shots or at least mid range shots. I agree Richardson is the one I want for that but we need more than just one guy. I do think if McRae and Reese can do what they have done lately we will see them running more.

I was merely playing devil's advocate on the discussion. I personally would like to see them push it more but I do think there is a reason Coach is holding it back other than just his "style".
 
#148
#148
ukvols said:
Maybe I am overstating the effect of playing the games close together, but going to Vandy and their odd gym just 15 days after the home game against Vandy concerns me.
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Very valid concern. Vandy is terrible on paper, but they have a very unique home court advantage.
 
#149
#149
UT IE 95 said:
Very valid concern. Vandy is terrible on paper, but they have a very unique home court advantage.
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Which hasn't helped them at all this year. Their best wins are on the road.

They lost to Marist at home for crying out loud, Butler smacked them by 20.
 
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#150
#150
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
If we start driving to the basket more defenses will start collapsing then we should have more wide open outside shots or at least mid range shots.
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You're missing the point. Teams already collapse on us the majority of the time. Smart coaches are more than content to leave us open from the perimeter, because odds are, we will simply beat ourselves if we rely on winning with our perimeter game. We are one of least effective perimeter teams in the country.

The reason we don't drive more now, is there is no room to operate in the paint. Until we find a player or two capable of keeping defenses honest from the perimeter, we will continue to find driving and passing lanes into the paint hard to come by, and we will see a lot of passing 30 feet from the basket.

Speeding up the tempo should give us more transition baskets without allowing teams to set up their defense in the paint.
 
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