Reality

#78
#78
DD4ME said:
One made lemonade out of lemons. You insist we make chicken ****, therein lies the rub.
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Who made lemonade?
The staff that made us VT's beeches?
Or the one who couldn't put the right number of players on the field?
 
#80
#80
Wow. I wonder how many more ways posters here will find to blame everything that's wrong with the O on Worley? This one even had the creative twist of taking a shot at Dooley.

To answer the OP. Worley is a work in progress but frankly the coaches did not go to extraordinary lengths to defend or protect him. He did some good things... some very good things. He did some bad things... that have to be cleaned up.

If you were coaching a kid as talented but at the same time as stupid as Bray could be... honesty would almost demand you eventually make comments like that. Bray was not very coachable and reckless. Worley has been nothing but coachable and maybe too careful. I'm not even sure Bray could start or play for Jones... much less avoid criticism.
 
#81
#81
Doyle Hargraves said:
Who made lemonade?
The staff that made us VT's beeches?
Or the one who couldn't put the right number of players on the field?
Click to expand...

You appear to be a black and white guy or just disagreeable. The issues we have now took the efforts of many coaches. Which is the real answer: stability.
 
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#82
#82
sjt18 said:
Wow. I wonder how many more ways posters here will find to blame everything that's wrong with the O on Worley? This one even had the creative twist of taking a shot at Dooley.

To answer the OP. Worley is a work in progress but frankly the coaches did not go to extraordinary lengths to defend or protect him. He did some good things... some very good things. He did some bad things... that have to be cleaned up.

If you were coaching a kid as talented but at the same time as stupid as Bray could be... honesty would almost demand you eventually make comments like that. Bray was not very coachable and reckless. Worley has been nothing but coachable and maybe too careful. I'm not even sure Bray could start or play for Jones... much less avoid criticism.
Click to expand...
I honestly thought there was a lot of debate about the coaches doing more to help the guy...idk I'm lost now. I think the final answer is whip dey ass though.
 
#83
#83
sjt18 said:
Wow. I wonder how many more ways posters here will find to blame everything that's wrong with the O on Worley? This one even had the creative twist of taking a shot at Dooley.

To answer the OP. Worley is a work in progress but frankly the coaches did not go to extraordinary lengths to defend or protect him. He did some good things... some very good things. He did some bad things... that have to be cleaned up.

If you were coaching a kid as talented but at the same time as stupid as Bray could be... honesty would almost demand you eventually make comments like that. Bray was not very coachable and reckless. Worley has been nothing but coachable and maybe too careful. I'm not even sure Bray could start or play for Jones... much less avoid criticism.
Click to expand...

So, Dooley is blame free for our current situation?
 
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#86
#86
I see people trying to discuss or debate what the solutions are and Doyle just wanting to stick a blame badge on one source. We didn't get this deep in a hole through one bad decision, it took a lot.
 
#87
#87
DD4ME said:
You appear to be a black and white guy or just disagreeable. The issues we have now took the efforts of many coaches. Which is the real answer: stability.
Click to expand...

If the problems that reside with this team is the result of multiple coaches, why do so many lie blame at the feet of the current staff?
 
#88
#88
Doyle Hargraves said:
Who made lemonade?
The staff that made us VT's beeches?
Or the one who couldn't put the right number of players on the field?
Click to expand...

You mean the staff that made it to the Peach Bowl (or chik fil a bowl or whatever the hell it is called now bowl)? The Peach Bowl is looking pretty appealing (no pun intended) these days.
 
#89
#89
Doyle Hargraves said:
If the problems that reside with this team is the result of multiple coaches, why do so many lie blame at the feet of the current staff?
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It's not blame it's responsibility and the simple answer to that is: THEY WORK HERE
 
#91
#91
DD4ME said:
I see people trying to discuss or debate what the solutions are and Doyle just wanting to stick a blame badge on one source. We didn't get this deep in a hole through one bad decision, it took a lot.
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Forgive me, oh wise one, for placing the weight of the blame of our current situation at the feet of the staff that were in charge the previous three years.
 
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#92
#92
Doyle Hargraves said:
If the problems that reside with this team is the result of multiple coaches, why do so many lie blame at the feet of the current staff?
Click to expand...

dog-chasing-tail.jpg
 
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#93
#93
Fulmer is responsible for driving the car into the ditch. Kiffin is responsible for first making it look as if he might pull it out then letting go and pushing it even deeper. Dooley was unable to do much to pull it out but left the situation a little better than he found it. Jones is now working his tail off trying to get it out as fast as he can.

The ultimate responsibility is Fulmer's. But the current situation is the product of decisions made since he left... none of which have fixed the problem.
 
#95
#95
sjt18 said:
Fulmer is responsible for driving the car into the ditch. Kiffin is responsible for first making it look as if he might pull it out then letting go and pushing it even deeper. Dooley was unable to do much to pull it out but left the situation a little better than he found it. Jones is now working his tail off trying to get it out as fast as he can.

The ultimate responsibility is Fulmer's. But the current situation is the product of decisions made since he left... none of which have fixed the problem.
Click to expand...

I can get behind this.
 
#96
#96
Doyle Hargraves said:
Forgive me, oh wise one, for placing the weight of the blame of our current situation at the feet of the staff that were in charge the previous three years.
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Blame whomever I'm just curious what Butch will do about it. Aside from write off the whole season and keep recruiting. He needs to put something competent on the field to keep the recruiting classes gaining momentum.
 
#97
#97
oregonvol said:
I see this argument alot on here and it seems odd to me. If we don't have the personnel to run the system, then does running it now necessarily benefit us in the future?

Does it help us, in the future, for our offense to look inept now? Does that help keep fans on board? Does it help us get the recruits we need for the future?

If we're just focused on building for the future, then why are the young quarterbacks not getting any playing time? Does anyone really think Worley is a long-term answer at QB in this system? Would it help with recruiting wide receivers for them to maybe have some confidence that we'll have a QB who can get them the ball?

Also, doesn't this all sound eerily like what was said to excuse the defense Sal Sunseri was running? Didn't loads of posters come on here and say that the 3-4 was usually bad in the first year, but greatly improved in the 2nd and we would see an improvement in the future once we had the right personnel?
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You could make the argument with the talent we have we will look inept no matter what system we run. But at last with this system it benefits the young guys playing. We are playing a ton of freshmen!

Wow, bad example with Sal Sunseri. Thats actually a prime example as to why you would want to implement a system early. Dooley's problem was that he tried to implement a 3-4 defensive system in the crucial 3rd year. Meaning he waited too late to implement a system. So what do you suggest Butch do? Run a system now, then change it next year or then next year? Then our young WRs have too learn a whole new system again?

Also it seems that the young QBs are not ready. This I do not know for sure, but if one of them was ready to play Butch would have them out there. He's already playing a ton of freshmen. Worley is probably the best option right now. Even though we are working for the future, you still have to try and win today. Thats why we still put the best players on the field.

Also the recruits that you go after fit the system you are running. I don't think it benefits you to run a pro-style offense and try and recruit a spread QB. You can show the recruits what kind of offense you want to have and tell them that they will be the key to making it work.
 
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#98
#98
sjt18 said:
Fulmer is responsible for driving the car into the ditch. Kiffin is responsible for first making it look as if he might pull it out then letting go and pushing it even deeper. Dooley was unable to do much to pull it out but left the situation a little better than he found it. Jones is now working his tail off trying to get it out as fast as he can.

The ultimate responsibility is Fulmer's. But the current situation is the product of decisions made since he left... none of which have fixed the problem.
Click to expand...

Solid analogy and I'm more interested in discussing what Butch will do next than to discuss why it's stuck.
 
#99
#99
Doyle Hargraves said:
Which coaching staff do you pin it on?
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Total team? I definitely pin it on Dooley. There is no question there. I've detailed this about 1000 times in previous posts. 5 LBs recruited (one is Vereen and another is Maggitt leaving us 3 recruited LBs active as LBs on roster) is unsatisfactory. DB recruiting was awful. There are good DBs in those classes, sure, but the depth is also awful. OL recruiting has also been awful.

The elements of depth are whole team issues.

However.

Depth at LB/DB/OL doesn't affect Worley's performance to this point. Kiffin had depth issues all of the board also. That didn't affect Crompton. We're talking about Worley and the Offense here... not Jancek and the Defense. In fact, I will adamently say I think Jancek has done a phenomenal job with the Defense. They play well until their issues with depth glare when the Offense puts them in bad situations with turnovers and 3-and-outs. 2 minutes of rest in 9 minutes of regulation? Gonna have a bad time.

We were up 31-7 and our inconsistent QB, coupled with 9 passes and 2 runs is why it ended up 31-24. That, to me, is a problem with playcalling. Why are we throwing it 9 times out of 11 plays in crucial drives?

Worley isn't calling the plays. Worley has shown to be a guy that, honestly, looks like he gets in his own head.

Look at the play-by-play and notice the first INT. He showed resiliance and then threw a 2nd. After the 2nd one he was noticeably worst. 16/20 through his first 2 INTs. 4/16 after that.
 
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#100
#100
Aday25 said:
You could make the argument with the talent we have we will look inept no matter what system we run. But at last with this system it benefits the young guys playing. We are playing a ton of freshmen!

Wow, bad example with Sal Sunseri. Thats actually a prime example as to why you would want to implement a system early. Dooley's problem was that he tried to implement a 3-4 defensive system in the crucial 3rd year. Meaning he waited too late to implement a system. So what do you suggest Butch do? Run a system now, then change it next year or then next year? Then our young WRs have too learn a whole new system again?

Also it seems that the young QBs are not ready. This I do not know for sure, but if one of them was ready to play Butch would have them out there. He's already playing a ton of freshmen. Worley is probably the best option right now. Even though we are working for the future, you still have to try and win today. Thats why we still put the best players on the field.

Also the recruits that you go after fit the system you are running. I don't think it benefits you to run a pro-style offense and try and recruit a spread QB. You can show the recruits what kind of offense you want to have and tell them that they will be the key to making it work.
Click to expand...

Dooley wanted out of K-Town and did everything and anything to make it happen.
 
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