Recruiting Football Talk VII

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#14,277
#14,277
MoCo_Vol said:
Bold = more goal post moving, some of the great QBs of all-time weren't first round QB picks so it's a deviation from the discussion to bring draft order up at all. You're deflecting.

You went from "great QB" to "elite" which was the moving. Not many NFL teams have elite QBs each season and there have been examples of great QBs with better teams beating elite QBs in the SB. (Eli vs Brady for example).

Just not what sure you're really trying to say. An elite OL will cost you a lot more cap cost than an elite QB, that's the difference in paying 5 vs 1 and the elite OL can't make a bad QB better, but a great QB will make an average OL better.

But in the 50+ SB wins very few have been elite teams with average QBs. Nothing about stating that objective information should really be an arguing point. Your opinion just isn't objectively supported in this specific case. But none of the SB winning teams were really what most would consider "bad teams" so it's not that you're wrong either.
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I wasn't differentiating between great and elite. There's great, good, and bad.

Great and good QB will fail behind a bad OL.

Great and Good can succeed behind a great OL.

There's a ton of evidence to suggest that a great QB can't carry a bad team. There's no way ALL of those failed top QB picks were just misidentified. The reality is that some of them were great QB who got chewed up and spit out because they got drafted by a garbage team behind a bad OL. So it wasn't moving goal posts, it was exhibiting evidence for my position.

Brady throws everything off because he took so much less money to make sure he was on a better team than every other QB. I think it's because he knew his greatness wasn't enough to carry a bad team, but I f course we can't prove that.

But that's my overall position. A team can carry a qb. A qb cannot carry a team. Obviously both being great leads to dynasties, but that's pretty rare to achieve and sustain due to the salary cap (again Brady taking less money dodged that rule).
 
#14,283
#14,283
SouthKnoxVOL said:
Our passing defense is ranked 36th in the country and only giving up an average of 190 yds per game so far with only giving up 4 passing tds. Far from bad so far.
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Don’t forget 123rd/133 in completion percentage allowed defensively at nearly 70%… definitely not the strongest unit. Still the weakest.
 
#14,284
#14,284
jave36 said:
I wasn't differentiating between great and elite. There's great, good, and bad.

Great and good QB will fail behind a bad OL.

Great and Good can succeed behind a great OL.

There's a ton of evidence to suggest that a great QB can't carry a bad team. There's no way ALL of those failed top QB picks were just misidentified. The reality is that some of them were great QB who got chewed up and spit out because they got drafted by a garbage team behind a bad OL. So it wasn't moving goal posts, it was exhibiting evidence for my position.

Brady throws everything off because he took so much less money to make sure he was on a better team than every other QB. I think it's because he knew his greatness wasn't enough to carry a bad team, but I f course we can't prove that.

But that's my overall position. A team can carry a qb. A qb cannot carry a team. Obviously both being great leads to dynasties, but that's pretty rare to achieve and sustain due to the salary cap (again Brady taking less money dodged that rule).
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The issue here is I'm defining great QBs by what they do/did in the NFL and you seem to be associating great QBs to top draft picks, which is weird...I never brought up where any QB was drafted.

I do think BAD teams ruin potentially good/great QBs though, but to be fair that's a very small sample size. David Carr and...who? Most truly great QBs elevate those bad teams. Peyton did, Rivers did, Eli did, Luck did... I don't think anyone is really arguing that those QBs wouldn't have been in better spots had they landed on better teams though.

I'm done either way, you seem to be trying to find an argument here.

SB winning teams have more often been lead by great QBs, all I said and all I'm saying. None of those teams were "bad" though so it's hard to prove that great QBs can win a SB with a bad team...since it's basically never happened (to my knowledge).
 
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#14,286
#14,286
MoCo_Vol said:
Bit of fool's gold... we've played VA (114 of 133 in total offensive yards), Austin Peay (FCS), and UTSA (119 of 133 in total offensive yards)... and even Florida is just average at 78 of 133 in total offensive yards
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We still weren't that good against bad teams last year. Not even close. Our defense isn't great, but it is clearly better.

We have just had an issue with being consistent across the board, more costly injuries, have had an unusual amount of awful officiating take points from us and crazy dumb plays like Seldon touching that punt block.

The story of this game will be if we can put four quarters together. Only we can beat us.

Run the ball (SAMPSON), hit the lay ups, knock the hell out of Rattler.

We have to win.
 
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#14,287
#14,287
Wickman said:
Scar’s defense is horrible. They have two players. That’s it. This is a night game in Neyland and we blew a shot at the ship last year because of them. The fans, coaches and players want blood. As another poster said, big red flags if we don’t win this one.


Vols 38
Scar 17

Vamos Vols
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You mis-typed the score:

Vols 78
Scar 17
 
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#14,288
#14,288
orange parmejohn said:
Yay/Nay?

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No, Need the elder crew of 65+ to stay at home… likewise fewer children as well need to be at the game. Max out the 15-60 population and you’ll get the max potential. Neyland suites people in those west and east chairbacks took out a huge chunk of that demographic and replaced them with mostly country club fans. That’s why I always sit near the student section or up top in PP. Was told to sit down on the opposite end so I’ll never sit over there again.
 
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#14,292
#14,292
Jack Burton said:
Updates from Rappin’ Andy:

Outside Gate 21 he asked the players how they felt and they said, “They Hungry”.

On Joe being injured: He seen Joe Milton signing autographs and smiling.

South Carolina diss rap almost finished.

The Swamp was loud. Andy parked at the lake about 35 minutes away from the stadium, and some old Florida man offered him food.

Andy getting in the studio soon. Got some big plans.
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#14,294
#14,294
MarcoVol said:
What’s USCe ranked?
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71 of 133 in total offensive yards, but they are also kind of one dimensional.

8th in passing yards
128th in rushing yards

If we let them run the ball on us (like Florida did) or like USCjr did against Miss State then we're going to lose. They called a completely different game against the bulldogs than the previous 3 games. Just 20 pass attempts and 47 rushing attempts, partly trying to play keep away though as they weren't having a ton of success in yards per carry, but enough that they could keep doing it and Rattler only had 2 misses the whole game.

The weird thing, Arnett as a HC has a bad defense, 10th or worse in points allowed, passing yards allowed, and rushing yards allowed in the SEC. We've faced better defenses than USCjr already, but we'll be one of the best defenses they've faced. Again though could be fool's gold because of the offenses we've played.
 
#14,296
#14,296
Xavier Legette is a monster so far this year. 556 yards receiving on the year at 20.6 YPC. He has 40% of their receiving yards and 26% of their catches. He also has 33% of their overall offensive yards. After Legette though, they really only have 3 other guys that when combined have just as many receptions (27) but less yards (339) than Legette. Legette is their offense. Period.

The problem is how do you contain him? Idk how. Smarter minds will have to answer that. Double teaming him is a start.
 
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#14,297
#14,297
mr.checkerboards said:
MSST tore them a new one as well. Their defense is bad.
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Hell.. their best showing was giving up 21 and 323 yards to Furman. Are we really better, idk...but we have only let 1 team score 21 or more and no team has hit 400 yards on us and that's while we're 19th in plays against us at 71.8 the exact same as South Carolina has seen. They have given up nearly 10 points more and 132 more yards though.
 
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#14,298
#14,298
MoCo_Vol said:
The issue here is I'm defining great QBs by what they do/did in the NFL and you seem to be associating great QBs to top draft picks, which is weird...I never brought up where any QB was drafted.

I do think BAD teams ruin potentially good/great QBs though, but to be fair that's a very small sample size. David Carr and...who? Most truly great QBs elevate those bad teams. Peyton did, Rivers did, Eli did, Luck did... I don't think anyone is really arguing that those QBs wouldn't have been in better spots had they landed on better teams though.

I'm done either way, you seem to be trying to find an argument here.

SB winning teams have more often been lead by great QBs, all I said and all I'm saying. None of those teams were "bad" though so it's hard to prove that great QBs can win a SB with a bad team...since it's basically never happened (to my knowledge).
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No, top draft pick does not determine it. Great has nothing to do with accomplishment (in this argument anyway). It's just talent. A super great amazingly talented QB will fail on a bad team. Top draft pick is a fairly decent correlation for talent. Not perfect, but certainly not completely uncorrelated.

Stafford is the best example probably, he's a very talented QB. Doesn't accomplish anything (by your definition not great, but great by my definition) on a bad Detroit team, but gets on a good team and wins it all (even though he was way past his prime).

It's just discussion man, no need to get all "I'm done here you're just trying to find an argument."
 
#14,299
#14,299
Ten_Titans said:
Do you have any examples more recent than one blown assignment from over a year ago?
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Yeah none of our RB's are that great at it

But Sampson is the kind of explosive RB we've been needing in this offense. It's time. USCjr has not been that great against the run under Beamer. Feed him the damn ball.
 
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