Recruiting Football Talk VIII

[Checker_the_Shire]

I'm not calling for any heads and still love Nico. Just staying the truth of the game.

You may not be, but several others are as if Heupel hasn’t come in here and revitalized a dying brand.

 

[BigSteve09]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

Proud of fans like you for representing us well.

This is a great post. A healthy, accurate, assessment of where we are

 

[Ttucke11]

You may not be, but several others are as if Heupel hasn’t come in here and revitalized a dying brand.

Well they aren't very intelligent.

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

Well they aren't very intelligent.

 

[headhunter15]

I’m sad…the season is over…the full band won’t get to experience a bowl trip (once a POTS mom, always a POTS mom)…just sad that it all ended that way.

I’m proud…Vol Nation showed up and supported our team!

I’m hopeful…our future is bright…we belong in the conversation…looking forward to seeing what next season holds for our Vols!

And never forget…we beat Bama AND Florida this year! Go Vols!

Now on to surviving the

I would like to see the first round games have some sort of bowl tie-in for players and fans to experience.

 

[chavisut]

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs. Only two had second year QBs. Only one had a RS Freshman. Half the field is a 4-6 year guys.

 

[LargePairOfVols]

The problem is congruency. That result isn’t commensurate with the resources of this program. Tennessee has too much $$ and is too special to get a result like that.

OSU is a special place as well but it isn’t 42-17 more special. We need to expect better. OSU is maximizing their resources. Well we have resources too. Do we really want to win?

You don’t go get a Jakolbe Thomas or a Chris Brazzell if you really want to win…you’re just hoping. Hoping is for Vanderbilt.

Also, Nico isn’t the guy. He just isn’t. We want him to be (sunk cost fallacy) but he doesn’t have it. George Mac probably doesn’t have it either. He has disappointment written all over him.

Danny White needs to solve this. The good news- We have the resources to do it. The reason I know that is because Tony Vitello exists. And he wears orange.

 

[dmwvol12]

We recruited 1 five star and 15 four stars and ended 10th. Ohio State recruited 2 five stars and 18 four stars and ended 5th. This years class was fine, but it’s stacking multiple classes in a row that matter. The difference between the top 10 each year is usually not a whole lot. But the UGA’s, Bama’s, OSU’s do it every year.

Plus they just went and bought whoever they needed to fill in the holes they had. Heupel doesn’t have their budget. He is forced to do it a different way which is much more difficult. I’m still looking for this magical money tree we have.

 

[MarcoVol]

The problem is congruency. That result isn’t commensurate with the resources of this program. Tennessee has too much $$ and is too special to get a result like that.

OSU is a special place as well but it isn’t 42-17 more special. We need to expect better. OSU is maximizing their resources. Well we have resources too. Do we really want to win?

You don’t go get a Jakolbe Thomas or a Chris Brazzell if you really want to win…you’re just hoping. Hoping is for Vanderbilt.

Also, Nico isn’t the guy. He just isn’t. We want him to be (sunk cost fallacy) but he doesn’t have it. George Mac probably doesn’t have it either. He has disappointment written all over him.

Danny White needs to solve this. The good news- We have the resources to do it. The reason I know that is because Tony Vitello exists. And he wears orange.

Vols lost 42-17 to end 1997 season.

Were they just hoping then?

We’ve won more games over the last 3 seasons than we have any 3 seasons dating back to 1996-1998.

Things are going well. Just not over the hump yet. Baseball is different than football. If UGA doesn’t win the NC this year then CFB will have just its 3rd active HC with a NC.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

Well. On my way to the airport to fly home. Disappointed in the way we played.

Defense had no pressure.
WR’s never open.
Brazzel might be Von Pearson 2.0.
They had better athletes on the field.
We need better quality depth.

Proud of the fans. That stadium was underwhelming. We made more noise than them. Honestly, their stadium was pathetic. So was their students post game when walking to hotel with my family.

Go Vols!

 

[Jackcrevol]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

a freaking men

 

[Jackcrevol]

@Ericvol2096 does Spyre offer a one time donation option?

 

[VolNash17]

Stood in 24 degree temperature for 6 hours last night and spent $600-$800 on a trip to see that slaughterfest so I think we have the right to call it out. Gonna have to be a hell of a lot more aggressive in securing elite talent in both recruiting and transfer portal

 

[Checker_the_Shire]

Well. On my way to the airport to fly home. Disappointed in the way we played.

Defense had no pressure.
WR’s never open.
Brazzel might be Von Pearson 2.0.
They had better athletes on the field.
We need better quality depth.

Proud of the fans. That stadium was underwhelming. We made more noise than them. Honestly, their stadium was pathetic. So was their students post game when walking to hotel with my family.

Go Vols!

I was not impressed with their stadium at all. It pales in comparison to Neyland and we probably faced a tougher environment at Arkansas than Columbus. The fans around us were cool, but walking home we dealt with similar ignorance.

 

[Vols2DaWall]

Great attitude Trippie. The only thing I would caution is Heupel doesn’t have the budget that schools like OSU, Texas and a few others have to outbid and get whoever he wants. They are massive universities with many, many more alumni and $$$$$. We have a rabid fan base and a few wealthy donors but just not too their level. We have to do it in a little different way and I would say it’s working pretty well. It’s not perfect but there’s a lot of teams that would love to change places with us.

We will never win big unless we emphasize building real talent.

So we either accept being a B level program or we get real guys

 

[Jackcrevol]

Stood in 24 degree temperature for 6 hours last night and spent $600-$800 on a trip to see that slaughterfest so I think we have the right to call it out. Gonna have to be a hell of a lot more aggressive in securing elite talent in both recruiting and transfer portal

 

[LargePairOfVols]

Vols lost 42-17 to end 1997 season.

Were they just hoping then?

We’ve won more games over the last 3 seasons than we have any 3 seasons dating back to 1996-1998.

Things are going well. Just not over the hump yet. Baseball is different than football. If UGA doesn’t win the NC this year then CFB will have just its 3rd active HC with a NC.

Not expecting a national title. We simply cannot lose like we lost last night. Gotta be tougher than that.

 

[tnhunter 10]

We made him look like a coach of a team with a better and deeper roster. They have NFL talent everywhere

Chip Kelly outcoached Banks, though

The GA and OSU game has made me realize Banks still needs to mature as a DC. Needs to be better on blitzes and stunts. What's wild is, until this season Banks did call a ton of blitzes.

 

[MarcoVol]

Not expecting a national title. We simply cannot lose like we lost last night. Gotta be tougher than that.

We did it to end the 1997 season. Nebraska ran the ball down our throats. 400+ rush yards, 6.0 yards per rush, 530 yards of total offense.

It was indeed ugly last night and OSU had a clear team speed advantage, especially their O vs our D. It’s just also not unprecedented even when taking things serious.

 

[VolNash17]

100000%. Elite program. Elite talent Tennessee needs to try it

 

[rockytop25]

My thoughts on the game from last night:

1. Unfortunately, I was worried about us running into a buzz saw with OSU. They put together the rest roster money could buy last winter and they came out ready to play. I’m not sure even playing our best we stay within 2 scores of them
2. I think we all underestimated the extent of Sampson’s injury against Vandy and that hurt. Losing your: 2 best RBs, 2/3 of your top 3 WR’s, Best guard, All really stacks up and I’m not sure there’s a team in the country that could compete with OSU taking that kind of hit injury wise.
3. I don’t really understand the Nico hate from last night. He was the ONLY reason we had any sort of pulse last night and I’m so dang proud of that kid. I can’t wait to see how he progresses next fall.
4. Heupel has gotten us back to national relevance. 10-2 in two out of the last three years is definitely something to be proud of. It is so hard to get over that last jump and that’s why there’s only 2 ACTIVE coaches in America with a NC.

GBO forever and always

 

[Jackcrevol]

100000%. Elite program. Elite talent Tennessee needs to try it
View attachment 708582

said it last night. if there is a positive it's competitive people getting their pants pulled down on national tv. ellarbee is a liability. pope isn't an elite recruiter. both need to go, or be given help. find room in budget for recruiting help, it's that easy.

money shouldnt be an issue. we just had 40k people travel to frozen tundra.

fact that we had not been making waves in transfer portal prior to this game is NOT encouraging.

 

[SagginVawls]

The fact that our players came out without shirts on makes me think they let outside talk get to their heads too.

 

[Vols2DaWall]

Heupel just won’t be a long term solution if we want to win a championship.

His offense is being easily handled by talented teams now with 4 years of tape. He won’t change this.

He’s not going out trying to make elite hires on the coaching staff. We get internal promotions in a lot of places. Kelsey Pope is cheeks. Abeln, we’ll see but again had zero experience prior.

Hes got to be able to sever ties and hire elite coaches. I don’t think he’ll do that. He’s got to change his offensive philosophies and he definitely won’t do that.

We have to commit to top 3 recruiting and I don’t see that happening for multiple reasons

 

[MarcoVol]

Heupel just won’t be a long term solution if we want to win a championship.

His offense is being easily handled by talented teams now with 4 years of tape. He won’t change this.

He’s not going out trying to make elite hires on the coaching staff. We get internal promotions in a lot of places. Kelsey Pope is cheeks. Abeln, we’ll see but again had zero experience prior.

Hes got to be able to sever ties and hire elite coaches. I don’t think he’ll do that. He’s got to change his offensive philosophies and he definitely won’t do that.

We have to commit to top 3 recruiting and I don’t see that happening for multiple reasons

Who’s the guy then?