Recruiting Football Talk VIII

[rockytop25]

One of their DB. The one who's name stars with an I. Is a transfer from Ole Miss

We got arguably the best CB transfer last cycle. I can’t complain about our DB’s and the way they played at all this season

 

[mr.checkerboards]

We got arguably the best CB transfer last cycle. I can’t complain about our DB’s and the way they played at all this season

They both were pretty bad last night.

 

[Jimmy Football]

There’s truth in that, but I don’t think it tells the whole story. Both us and Indiana were outclassed in a way that would require us to have an “on night” and our opponents to have an “off night” to win.

I also think that would apply to ND if they played OSU last night, and to Indiana if they played us.

 

[drylo]

Get rid of Hazle and hire Chip Kelly as OC/QB coach.

That would be the move of the century for Heupel.

Having Kelly work with Nico would be heaven. Chip would use him exactly like Mariota. Only issue would be Chip and Hype maybe having differences over coaching the QBs, but that’s the move I’d make at QB/OC.

Would be amazing, but seems like Kelly is with Day because they go way back.

 

[Govolsman98]

Well we played like shite. Good season with a sucky end. So it goes. On to basketball

 

[volbeast33]

1. The Veer and Shoot has been figured out by our opponents. Heup needs to make adjustments this off-season
2. our offensive line recruiting has been horrendous. Could you imagine how bad it would look if guys weren’t allowed to play extra years. There is no way Daybe Davis should still be the main back up.
3. Recruiting has to get better. We have had way too many misses.
4. I have no issues with Banks. He has done a great overall job.
5. Heup has been great for our University and everyone should still support him 100%.
6. Volnation showed out and should continue to show it out despite this humbling loss. We have the best fans in America!!!

Go Vols!

 

[Jack Burton]

Two things can be true at the same time.

1) I’m happy with how Heupel has brought us back to relevance overcoming many obstacles in his way.
2) We need talent upgrades on the field and coaching staff if we want to take the next step.

Heupel has to make the difficult decisions with the current staff and take risks with the roster. Otherwise we’ve reached the ceiling.

 

[SoilVol]

All that said, proud of this team and I support Heupel and what he's done here. Never would've imagined we'd be in a playoff game 4 years ago. I've seen calls for his head - absurd.

There's a lot of positives. Nico just had the best freshman season of any Vols QB. He was actually a bright spot last night with the way he competed. He ran hard and extended plays.

We've got everyone in the football building and athletic department pulling the same direction for the first time in decades it seems. And at the very minimum there's virtually no drama and players aren't getting arrested for DA/DV, DUI, R*pe, Egregious Speeding, Drugs, Illegal Weapons, etc all the time. Stuff that was constant for Butch and Pruitt and a red school to our South.

 

[Aesius]

Said it after the UGA loss but we're still Clemson circa 2012 or so. We will probably have to suffer from our own brand of "Clemsoning" for a while before we take a step.

2022 was a magical season that skewed expectations a bit. If we had gone 7-6, 9-4, 9-4, 10-3, I think there would be a little less gnashing of teeth today.

I think Heup's 100% the right guy and I sincerely hope last night showed him what he and his team are lacking. That beatdown may be the best thing that could have happened because I think if we're honest with ourselves, there's basically zero chance we were going to win it all this year.

He's figured out how to beat just about anyone at Neyland. Now he needs to figure out how to be more consistent on the road and start fielding true top 5 teams. It's a tall order and plenty of coaches never figure out how to take that next step.

 

[Vols4us]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

Yup. Our fans are not the problem, we represent well.

Good, accurate post. Like you I have been puzzled by the lack of doing what they did successfully in the past with the O scheme. At least do what you did successfully this season and use 12 personnel. That reduces dependence on a lack of WR productivity due to route concepts and injuries. Lewis was healthy and productive. Pound the rock, throw to the TE's and go deep with the healthy receivers. It would have been a much better approach.

Again, who do you want as OC - Chip Kelly or Joey Halzle? Who do you want as DC - Jim Knowles or Tim Banks? Who do you want at O-line or as secondary coaches? Insert UGA coordinators and half the assistant coaches in the SEC if you prefer. If the best assistants and coordinators will not come to UT with all of its resources, fanbase and commitment to the program; you have identified the problem.

Glad Heup took the job and restored the program to this level of making the playoff. If he, Danny, Donde, and Randy want to hit the elite level there have to be changes in staff and system. Heup can no longer call plays if he wants to be an elite HC - that is for a competent OC to do. I can no longer unsee the changes that are clearly needed, so back to the shadows I go to avoid seeing stupid Ryan Day jokes and the like.

 

[engineerVOL]

What did it say?

We need to find playmakers at WR and we will

 

[knoxvol52]

Great season overall 10-3 record isn't a season to be disappointed in, future is bright and hopefully CJH makes the decisions that need to be made to help grow this University back where we stood tall.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Two things can be true at the same time.

1) I’m happy with how Heupel has brought us back to relevance overcoming many obstacles in his way.
2) We need talent upgrades on the field and coaching staff if we want to take the next step.

Heupel has to make the difficult decisions with the current staff and take risks with the roster. Otherwise we’ve reached the ceiling.

Those things both are true. It is what it is.

 

[Midas]

Said it after the UGA loss but we're still Clemson circa 2012 or so. We will probably have to suffer from our own brand of "Clemsoning" for a while before we take a step.

2022 was a magical season that skewed expectations a bit. If we had gone 7-6, 9-4, 9-4, 10-3, I think there would be a little less gnashing of teeth today.

I think Heup's 100% the right guy and I sincerely hope last night showed him what he and his team are lacking. That beatdown may be the best thing that could have happened because I think if we're honest with ourselves, there's basically zero chance we were going to win it all this year.

He's figured out how to beat just about anyone at Neyland. Now he needs to figure out how to be more consistent on the road and start fielding true top 5 teams. It's a tall order and plenty of coaches never figure out how to take that next step.

What do y’all think happens last night if the 2022 team walked out there? Do you think the same happens or the game becomes a shootout? Now if the 2022 team made the playoffs that year I know we probably advance a game since we would have taken one of the spots of michigan and TCU and beat one of them since they were mid. But curious as to how the 2022 team would have done last night.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

What happened to Heupel scheming wide open receivers? Been a min since I've seen that.

He keeps trying to scheme them open way down the field and just ignores all the open field defenses are giving us inside 10 yards right in front of the QB...where it would be easier for the QB to identify and make the throw under pressure. Our defense got hurt several times with motion and crossing routes...two things our offense doesn't seem to do post-Golesh. Our offense honestly seems extremely basic now in the passing game and even our more talented young receivers hardly showed up last night. I'm most disappointed in scheme and WR coaching.

 

[VolGee4]

Last night solidified issues we've noticed that need to be addressed. OSU exposed the weakest areas of the team.

1. Our wide receivers are not coached well enough. Period. They're talented, but they aren't improving. If anything, guys like Bru have regressed (could be injury). Brazzell doesn't look better than he did at Tulane. Nobody could get open last night and would just stop their routes instead of finding the soft space in the defense (what OSU WRs did).

2. Our OL was good but not great. Some of that is talent. I think we've got some guys playing to the absolute best of their ability which is a brught spot for Elarbee, but we still lack talented depth. Recruiting the OL has been slow. We know that.

3. Safeties are good but not great. Nonody elite on the back end of the defense. They're better than we've had for a long time, but not elite. The corners got beat on perfect throws last night, so I can't really fault them there when they had good coverage.

4. The linebackers are young and a step slow right now. OSU exploited that. Good news is that recruiting has been pretty darn good at LB and these guys are very talented. They're going to improve.

Lastly, there's any obvious difference and talent discrepancy between the OSU's, Oregon's, Georgia's, and Texas's and the tier just below that - us, Ole Miss, South Carolina, etc. (I struggle to place Penn State, Michigan, and Bama right now).

We are good enough to beat most teams and catch a more talented rival during an SEC home game.

But when we get to the post season and teams have weeks to rest, evaluate, develop a gameplan, expose weaknesses, etc, the talent disparity shines through.

This is why we have struggled to beat Georgia, especially on the road. It's why we faded against Bama last year. It's why we got dominated last night. OSU's roster is simply at a different level and with the extra time to prepare and rest there was little chance to overcome that. Even if we had hosted or neutral site I'm afraid. I didn't expect it to be that far of a gap, tbh.

I just don’t agree with 1. We can certainly upgrade with talent, but I’m not sure how coaching or scheme affect it either. However, guys have been open this year (and last night) but Nico either missed them or put his head down to run. I doubt it’s just one thing. Nico is talented, but his youth showed up some this year, which is understandable. It’s not just bad WR’s.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I didnt notice him, he also wasn’t on the box score

I just looked. He’s listed on the participation chart. Not sure how much he played.

 

[Aesius]

What do y’all think happens last night if the 2022 team walked out there? Do you think the same happens or the game becomes a shootout? Now if the 2022 team made the playoffs that year I know we probably advance a game since we would have taken one of the spots of michigan and TCU and beat one of them since they were mid. But curious as to how the 2022 team would have done last night.

2022 team would have lost IMO. Closer game but still a loss. UGA that season showed that vastly superior talent and depth could shut down the Hooker to Hyatt connection on the road.

 

[engineerVOL]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

Amen brother. Sticky this post. You spelled it out bettter than I could. Also, thx for making the journey!

 

[Midas]

We need to find playmakers at WR and we will

I hope so. I hope Matthew’s and Staley work hard this summer cause they have the physical gifts they’re just not ready to make an impact. Not have 2 starting receivers to start the half really hurt. Also John Campbell not getting to the second level to make a key block killed the drive. Sanders/Warren needs to be ready to take over one or both tackle spots if Heard doesn’t improve.

 

[JCP201]

Thinking back--there was the intimidation factor of our fans showing up big. Vols were getting ready to take over and then we had the facemask. After they scored first, it was over. I had hope after 2nd quarter, but after that, I just wanted it to be over. At least we were there.

 

[headhunter15]

Heupel should absolutely ponder letting Halzle go. Not saying he will because there are bigger problems (Elarbee), but this is a thought that should cross his mind.

 

[Midas]

2022 team would have lost IMO. Closer game but still a loss. UGA that season showed that vastly superior talent and depth could shut down the Hooker to Hyatt connection on the road.

I’m still not sure yet what would happen. That 2022 defense was ass outside of a few games. Against Clemson they rolled the dice on blitzes and got home and greatly impacted the game. But when that team couldn’t do that which was most of the time they let anyone move the ball at will.

 

[InVOLuntary]

 

[rockytop25]

They both were pretty bad last night.

They were guarding 1st round Wr’s and the DLINE wasn’t getting any pressure. Some of the completions was good coverage just better plays on their end