Recruiting Football Talk VIII

[VolGee4]

Yup. Our fans are not the problem, we represent well.

Good, accurate post. Like you I have been puzzled by the lack of doing what they did successfully in the past with the O scheme. At least do what you did successfully this season and use 12 personnel. That reduces dependence on a lack of WR productivity due to route concepts and injuries. Lewis was healthy and productive. Pound the rock, throw to the TE's and go deep with the healthy receivers. It would have been a much better approach.

Again, who do you want as OC - Chip Kelly or Joey Halzle? Who do you want as DC - Jim Knowles or Tim Banks? Who do you want at O-line or as secondary coaches? Insert UGA coordinators and half the assistant coaches in the SEC if you prefer. If the best assistants and coordinators will not come to UT with all of its resources, fanbase and commitment to the program; you have identified the problem.

Glad Heup took the job and restored the program to this level of making the playoff. If he, Danny, Donde, and Randy want to hit the elite level there have to be changes in staff and system. Heup can no longer call plays if he wants to be an elite HC - that is for a competent OC to do. I can no longer unsee the changes that are clearly needed, so back to the shadows I go to avoid seeing stupid Ryan Day jokes and the like.

I agree. I didn’t understand why they didn’t run more on the first few drives. They came out passing on play one. OSU played like UGA- light box, thinking their front 7 could handle it. Where were the TE’s in the passing game?

 

[JCP201]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

This post is a must read.

 

[headhunter15]

Exactly spot on.

 

[volsagain]

They both were pretty bad last night.

No pass rush will get a db beat we were abysmal not near enough pressure. QB put passes where they needed to be. So surprised we couldn't get more pressure.

 

[Volator]

I was at the game tonight. Just wanted to reflect and put some thoughts together about the season/tonight to decompress a bit. Haven’t read the board since pre-game so apologies if this is re-stating a bunch of similar thoughts, I’m sure most are thinking the same:

First off, Vol Nation is actually incredible! I can’t believe how many fellow Vols were in attendance and how loud and proud they were. So many sections of that stadium were just dominated by us and it was truly a sight to see. I don’t think its possible for anyone to care more than we do and I’m forever proud of that fact. Buckeye fans on the other hand are absolutely garbage, makes sense why people hate the state of Ohio. I will say the Horseshoe is a pretty cool stadium though and the views of the field were great all around. But man that place is quiet, it literally doesn’t even compare to Neyland. Onto the program:

Offense: Without an absolute game breaker at WR (Hyatt) and mastermind running it (I miss you Hendon), this current version of the offense is sadly as elementary as it gets. Our route concepts create absolutely zero confusion for the defense and that’s further emphasized with us no longer going at warp speed anymore. It was honestly hard to watch it play out in person and it’s what we’ve seen all year against teams that either match or overpower us in talent. We run zero misdirection, tight mesh plays, anything involving motion and it makes it so easy for the defense to man up, play cover 2, and out talent us in the end. I’m sitting here watching highlights from the 2022 offense and I caught the Hyatt TD against Missouri on the wheel route from the backfield. That play had us in a 3 TE set with a RB coming in motion on a fake jet sweep that caused all kinds of chaos for the defense post-snap. Where on earth did that play calling/creation go? How many times did Ohio State run crossers for Smith to just run open across the field? Egbuka was running wide open on quick outs for first downs because of simple pre snap motion by their WRs in bunch formations. Their concepts complemented each other and didn’t require a 1 on 1 win every single time unlike ours. And as a result we have Nico running for his life on every play, which to his credit really showed some toughness. I say all that knowing we were dealt a bad hand with Sampson’s injury issues and the WR core being decimated as well. But the personnel shouldn’t hold us back to the lengths that it did tonight and have all season.

Defense: It finally made sense why this team is so shockingly bad on the road while mostly being able to dominate at home. Banks’ system 100% relies on the confusion created by our fans at Neyland and loses that entire edge on the road. Offenses are so disoriented when we play at home and the D-Line feasts on that while the back 7 just do enough to clean up any mistakes. On the road, that entire factor is removed and we end up getting zero pressure with Banks’ tendencies to to rush 4 on every play and drop into zones that our LBs and Safties clearly struggle in (Georgia 2.0). When we did man up tonight, our CBs just weren’t good enough and didn’t do their jobs. But I don’t understand how Banks can just continue to live with that mindset on the road when it repeats itself every single time. If you’re gonna fall, at least go down swinging and try something different man. How he refused to bring any blitz packages on crucial downs will forever infuriate me. This system is good enough to win when we hold the advantages and when the talent levels are near equal, but we’re severely out-schemed in every way when the cards aren’t in our favor. I’m not sure what we do about that other than hope and pray Banks shows some willingness to adjust going forward if we have him around next year.

All in all, I’m proud of Heupel and what he’s done here so far. It was awesome to be in the playoffs and to feel like we’re part of this elite group once again. But the current state of the program and the direction we’re headed in will just never result in more than being a top 9-12 team. We might finish a couple spots ahead or below that every now and then but we will never truly be elite. We’ll always be 9-3 or 10-2. And I appreciate the culture we have with this team and program and it’s amazing to see how much of a brotherhood they seem to have together. But if we want to win with the OSU’s and Georgia’s of the world, Heupel needs to turn into an absolute killer. We can’t sit back in the portal and continue to be outbid for top tier talent because it’s not the “right culture fit” or would disrupt the NIL structure in the team. Those top 1-3 teams don’t care an ounce about that. We can’t continue to lose top recruits to other teams because we weren’t willing to engage in bidding games. At some point, Heupel needs to consider whether his system and program can really take the next step without that type of talent because it sure doesn’t seem like it. After tonight, we need new talent and we need it fast. You cannot leave Nico in this position going into next season or we will have wasted his entire window and sizable NIL investment. At the moment, I don’t see anything that suggests we’d improve past the 9-10 win range again next year with our class coming in and our minor involvement in the portal from the looks of it. And that may be fine and I’d be happy to just make the playoffs again next year, but the outcome won’t be any different and we’ll probably be doing this again in 365 days. I hope Heupel feels the same and doesn’t want to experience this all over again. But we need some change, that’s a fact.

Side note - I hope Elarbee was just left in Columbus tonight. That man is living off the memory of Darnell Wright and riding the coattails of Sampson this season. Why oh why does he have to be Heupel’s best friend

Very good post and hadn’t thought about why the defense struggles on the road. The Neyland factor is real and allows the 4 man rush to get home. No gameplan changes also factors into the road woes.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Heupel has this program consistently competing to be in the top 10 in the nation. He needs to figure out how to take the next step this offseason.

 

[Jack Burton]

I’d like to see us run tempo again, but I think Nico doesn’t have the ability to process fast enough. Milton had the same issue.

 

[Cartervol]

Exactly spot on.

Guy isn't wrong.. We need to upgrade everything and not be happy with 10 win seasons. Those would turn into 9,8,7 type years if you do...

 

[Aesius]

The one thing that gives me pause about Heupel's future (and in no way am I saying he should be fahred) is that it's rare for a coach to take his perennial 9-3/10-2 team to the next level after those results have become the ceiling.

Dabo and Clemson are the one exception that I point to. But there are others who reach that "good but not great" peak and then slowly start to decline. UGA let Mark Richt do it for about 7-8 years after his peak. Same with Fulmer here, although Fulmer did manage to win a championship.

It seems like there's a window for coaches to win big and it generally needs to happen within their first 5-6 years. If it doesn't, you start to lose juice on the recruiting trail and inertia sets in. I think there's also a fear of upsetting the apple cart when you're already winning 9-10 games a year because what if you make a gamble on staff or philosophy and it doesn't work?

 

[Enki_Amenra]

My ignore list grew like the grinch's heart on Christmas Day last night,

 

[NighthawkVol]

Last night solidified issues we've noticed that need to be addressed. OSU exposed the weakest areas of the team.

1. Our wide receivers are not coached well enough. Period. They're talented, but they aren't improving. If anything, guys like Bru have regressed (could be injury). Brazzell doesn't look better than he did at Tulane. Nobody could get open last night and would just stop their routes instead of finding the soft space in the defense (what OSU WRs did).

2. Our OL was good but not great. Some of that is talent. I think we've got some guys playing to the absolute best of their ability which is a brught spot for Elarbee, but we still lack talented depth. Recruiting the OL has been slow. We know that.

3. Safeties are good but not great. Nonody elite on the back end of the defense. They're better than we've had for a long time, but not elite. The corners got beat on perfect throws last night, so I can't really fault them there when they had good coverage.

4. The linebackers are young and a step slow right now. OSU exploited that. Good news is that recruiting has been pretty darn good at LB and these guys are very talented. They're going to improve.

Lastly, there's any obvious difference and talent discrepancy between the OSU's, Oregon's, Georgia's, and Texas's and the tier just below that - us, Ole Miss, South Carolina, etc. (I struggle to place Penn State, Michigan, and Bama right now).

We are good enough to beat most teams and catch a more talented rival during an SEC home game.

But when we get to the post season and teams have weeks to rest, evaluate, develop a gameplan, expose weaknesses, etc, the talent disparity shines through.

This is why we have struggled to beat Georgia, especially on the road. It's why we faded against Bama last year. It's why we got dominated last night. OSU's roster is simply at a different level and with the extra time to prepare and rest there was little chance to overcome that. Even if we had hosted or neutral site I'm afraid. I didn't expect it to be that far of a gap, tbh.

Spot on.

The talent at LB is being addressed. Spillman and the incoming freshmen are upgrades. The young and incoming OLinemen should also be an upgrade.

We need a portal Safety. I’m afraid the WR problem is coaching. They don’t seem to develop under Pope. I’d love to get Burns back.

 

[VolGee4]

The one thing that gives me pause about Heupel's future (and in no way am I saying he should be fahred) is that it's rare for a coach to take his perennial 9-3/10-2 team to the next level after those results have become the ceiling.

Dabo and Clemson are the one exception that I point to. But there are others who reach that "good but not great" peak and then slowly start to decline. UGA let Mark Richt do it for about 7-8 years after his peak. Same with Fulmer here, although Fulmer did manage to win a championship.

It seems like there's a window for coaches to win big and it generally needs to happen within their first 5-6 years. If it doesn't, you start to lose juice on the recruiting trail and inertia sets in. I think there's also a fear of upsetting the apple cart when you're already winning 9-10 games a year because what if you make a gamble on staff or philosophy and it doesn't work?

It’s like the NCAAT (but more difficult)- just keep getting into or at least vying for the playoff. Eventually, wins will come. But you have to give yourself chances. 10-2 in the SEC will get you into the playoff.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Exactly spot on.

Spot on.

 

[Aesius]

It’s like the NCAAT (but more difficult)- just keep getting into or at least vying for the playoff. Eventually, wins will come. But you have to give yourself chances. 10-2 in the SEC will get you into the playoff.

Agreed. I think the expanded playoff changes things a bit. And who knows how Richt or Fulmer's careers would have turned out if a 12-team playoff existed in the 00s.

At this point, we need to hope that Nico takes a big step forward. Bama was on the decline under Saban during his last few years, but Bryce Young covered up those deficiencies. Can Nico progress so much that he covers up some of our deficiencies next year? Or can Faizon Brandon be the true heir of Hendon Hooker here?

 

[Fun coupon VOL]

Heupel should absolutely ponder letting Halzle go. Not saying he will because there are bigger problems (Elarbee), but this is a thought that should cross his mind.

This isn’t some revelation. Georgia has our number because they don’t have to load the box to stop our run game. OSU had five in the box daring us to run the ball last night and we couldn’t due to lack of push at the point of attack. This is always going to be the issue with this offense and why I have been hard on the OL all year. If you can’t run the ball your offense sucks. Develop your guys and stop portal shopping rejects who are not good enough to get to the NFL.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

I’d like to see us run tempo again, but I think Nico doesn’t have the ability to process fast enough. Milton had the same issue.

He has the ability, just not the skill yet. He has to know every play instantly. He has to know which wrs are on the field and likely to be open on that particular play, every play. He has to have a better rhythm with the wrs. We need a much better OL. I can't believe how much we miss guys from our '22 line. Nico will suddenly look like a megastar if he can get consistent protection and wrs that will get open consistently.

We need Golesh back. . . or whoever it was that created our offensive gameplans and play calls in '22. We need a new OL coach & OL in general. We need to play our young WRs. We need Deon Grant, Al Wilson, and Cam Sutton. We need a DC who isnt scared of his own shadow. We need a DB coach who will teach the players to play the ball, not the WR.

 

[nashvol1]

Tennessee's defense finished the season allowing 16.1 points per game, its best scoring defense since allowing 14.5 points per game during the 1998 national championship season.

But yes, we should fire Tim Banks.

What did we do against the elite competition? That’s the benchmark. This sounds like a Cignetti from IU comment after feasting off a weak schedule.

One will never be the best by fooling themself with stats built off inferior proxies.

 

[Vols4us]

I agree. I didn’t understand why they didn’t run more on the first few drives. They came out passing on play one. OSU played like UGA- light box, thinking their front 7 could handle it. Where were the TE’s in the passing game?

I agree. To your points -

Heup needs to look in the mirror and be honest with himself and the situation. Despite being successful, I really think this season exposed the flaws. If he makes the necessary changes, we have the right guy. If he doesn't we will be 8-10 wins per season and ranked #10-20 on average until/if UT says that is not good enough.

How does any good HC forget what works in a system he designed and utilized for years? Don't have the answer. How does any HC at that level not review the film and determine the strengths and weaknesses of his team such that he game plans accordingly? Don't know. How can the D coaches and Heup look at the OSU game film and not see that we have match-up issues in the secondary, inexperienced LB's who cannot cover TE's and are totally incompetent at playing zone all season for the past four years? Don't know. That last point says - BLITZ - idgit. I am so over "the opponent dictated what we tried to do" type BS that comes out of coaches mouths as excuses. Focus on what you do well and do it, then throw in a few wrinkles the opponents have not seen on film - like OSU did last night and UGA did during the season. If you lose you at least gave your best efforts. Last night and UGA looked like we had L's on our foreheads.

They pay Heup the big bucks to figure it out. As for me and my house we are on to basketball.

 

[Ashevolle]

Why no 12-personnel last night?

 

[Midas]

The one thing that gives me pause about Heupel's future (and in no way am I saying he should be fahred) is that it's rare for a coach to take his perennial 9-3/10-2 team to the next level after those results have become the ceiling.

Dabo and Clemson are the one exception that I point to. But there are others who reach that "good but not great" peak and then slowly start to decline. UGA let Mark Richt do it for about 7-8 years after his peak. Same with Fulmer here, although Fulmer did manage to win a championship.

It seems like there's a window for coaches to win big and it generally needs to happen within their first 5-6 years. If it doesn't, you start to lose juice on the recruiting trail and inertia sets in. I think there's also a fear of upsetting the apple cart when you're already winning 9-10 games a year because what if you make a gamble on staff or philosophy and it doesn't work?

Dabo made big changes after he realized he was plateauing. I really hope Heupel does too cause I really like him and appreciate everything he’s done to get us here and so does most of volnation. I think most of us want to see Heupel be the guy who gets it done but he has to realize what needs to be done. Upgrades in certain positions in both personnel and coaching need to be made.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Why no 12-personnel last night?

Defenses know how to predict our 12-personnel

 

[Midas]

ok. Does anyone know why after you post or after you type something regardless if you post it or not, the text stays there after you post or delete? It’s getting so annoying and been happening for months now.

 

[headhunter15]

This isn’t some revelation. Georgia has our number because they don’t have to load the box to stop our run game. OSU had five in the box daring us to run the ball last night and we couldn’t due to lack of push at the point of attack. This is always going to be the issue with this offense and why I have been hard on the OL all year. If you can’t run the ball your offense sucks. Develop your guys and stop portal shopping rejects who are not good enough to get to the NFL.

Goes back to the Jimmies and Joes. UGA and Ohio State don’t have to worry about their back end because it’s filled with elite talent. Bama, under Saban, and Florida, under Meyer were the same way. UT cannot have a walk on and a transfer from MTSU leading the back end and expect to win against the best.

 

[knoxvol52]

He has the ability, just not the skill yet. He has to know every play instantly. He has to know which wrs are on the field and likely to be open on that particular play, every play. He has to have a better rhythm with the wrs. We need a much better OL. I can't believe how much we miss guys from our '22 line. Nico will suddenly look like a megastar if he can get consistent protection and wrs that will get open consistently.

We need Golesh back. . . or whoever it was that created our offensive gameplans and play calls in '22. We need a new OL coach & OL in general. We need to play our young WRs. We need Deon Grant, Al Wilson, and Cam Sutton. We need a DC who isnt scared of his own shadow. We need a DB coach who will teach the players to play the ball, not the WR.

Golesh isn't coming back as long as South Florida keeps going to Bowl Games every year. The Golesh narrative is a "pipedream".

 

[Freak]

ok. Does anyone know why after you post or after you type something regardless if you post it or not, the text stays there after you post or delete? It’s getting so annoying and been happening for months now.

It’s to save a draft. You can delete it anytime this way.