Recruiting Football Talk VIII

#125,776
#125,776
Smokey123 said:
You don’t think love averaging 8 and 6 on 25 minutes in the finals is superstar level? 🤣
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Yeah, Kevin Love = HOF is probably the worst take I've seen in ages.

I'm not even a Lebron fan or anything...but he carried that Cavs team and it wasn't close to a "super team"

Kyrie = who they drafted
JR Smith = lol
Kevin Love = post 2012-13 season where he got injured and was never the same talent
Tristan Thompson = lol
Richard Jefferson = 35 and should've retired already

Yeah...and most those stats for Kevin Love came in game 1 where he scored 17 and had 13 rebounds in a loss by 15 at Golden State. After that he didn't score 12 points in a game again, didn't record 6 rebounds in a game again either and even missed game 3.

I mean that's probably the most legit title Lebron has...the 2nd best player was drafted & developed by the Cavs, no bubble season, and no crazy free agency moves to add a HOF talent to help carry him like AD did.
 
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#125,779
#125,779
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
OKC with Durant, Harden, and Russ were a super team despite all 3 being drafted by the team. I don't define superteams by how they are constructed. I define it based on the talent level on the team.

With regard to Kevin Love. In the season immediately preceding joining the Cavs he averaged 26.1 PPG and 12.5 RPG while being named 2nd team All-NBA. He was widely regarded as the best PF in the game and had some arguing he was a top 5 player in the league. Remember the Cavs had to trade #1 pick Andrew Wiggins to land Kevin Love. And Wiggins in 2014 was considered the best draft prospect since LeBron.

To say Kevin Love was in a nose dive is an absolute lie. He was considered a superstar when he arrived in Cleveland. Blame LeBron for turning him into a role player. He did it with Bosh in Miami. And then Love in Cleveland.
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Harden was not a superstar on OKC. He was coming off the bench and didn’t develop into elite until he left.
 
#125,780
#125,780
MoCo_Vol said:
Yeah, Kevin Love = HOF is probably the worst take I've seen in ages.

I'm not even a Lebron fan or anything...but he carried that Cavs team and it wasn't close to a "super team"

Kyrie = who they drafted
JR Smith = lol
Kevin Love = post 2012-13 season where he got injured and was never the same talent
Tristan Thompson = lol
Richard Jefferson = 35 and should've retired already

Yeah...and most those stats for Kevin Love came in game 1 where he scored 17 and had 13 rebounds in a loss by 15 at Golden State. After that he didn't score 12 points in a game again, didn't record 6 rebounds in a game again either and even missed game 3.

I mean that's probably the most legit title Lebron has...the 2nd best player was drafted & developed by the Cavs, no bubble season, and no crazy free agency moves to add a HOF talent to help carry him like AD did.
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D4H is using a lot of mental gymnastics just to contradict his arguments
 
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#125,782
#125,782
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
OKC with Durant, Harden, and Russ were a super team despite all 3 being drafted by the team. I don't define superteams by how they are constructed. I define it based on the talent level on the team.

With regard to Kevin Love. In the season immediately preceding joining the Cavs he averaged 26.1 PPG and 12.5 RPG while being named 2nd team All-NBA. He was widely regarded as the best PF in the game and had some arguing he was a top 5 player in the league. Remember the Cavs had to trade #1 pick Andrew Wiggins to land Kevin Love. And Wiggins in 2014 was considered the best draft prospect since LeBron.

To say Kevin Love was in a nose dive is an absolute lie. He was considered a superstar when he arrived in Cleveland. Blame LeBron for turning him into a role player. He did it with Bosh in Miami. And then Love in Cleveland.
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Right, then he went a full ass season averaging 16.4 and 9.7 for Cavs before then having another role player type season the year they won the title.

They didn't get 26 & 12.5 Love at all, and they had 2 full seasons of proof with him as a Cav to know that going into those playoffs...

Still though Kevin Love isn't a HOF player.

Edit: Also Bosh's stats for ya...since despite using the best website to gather them you obviously didn't eye test that idiotic statement

at Raptors: 20.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 2.2 apg, 1.2 bpg, shooting 49.2% FG on 14.4 FGAs
at Miami: 18.0 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 1.8 apg, 0.9 bpg, shooting 49.6% FG on 13.6 FGAs

That included 2 full seasons after Lebron bolted...and in those 2 years Bosh was averaging over 20 ppg again like he did for the Raptors...

Kevin Love went from a 19.2 and 12.2 guy for the T-wolves to a 15.7 and 9.2 guy for the Cavs a far bigger dip in production
 
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#125,785
#125,785
MoCo_Vol said:
So does the fact that Denver having just 2 losing seasons since drafting Jokic, winning the only title in team history and making 2 conference Finals behind Jokic not mean anything?
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No it means a lot. Which is why I have him as a top 5 player despite his putrid defense. Jokic is so good offensively that even a guy like myself who values defense will give him props for how impactful he still is despite hurting his team on defense.

If Jokic played better defense the Nuggets would be dynasty like the 90s Bulls. That's how bad his defense is. He's leaving rings on the table because of how poorly he plays for 50% of the game. Just think of it this way. If he's that good statistically he should be winning more.
 
#125,786
#125,786
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
No it means a lot. Which is why I have him as a top 5 player despite his putrid defense. Jokic is so good offensively that even a guy like myself who values defense will give him props for how impactful he still is despite hurting his team on defense.

If Jokic played better defense the Nuggets would be dynasty like the 90s Bulls. That's how bad his defense is. He's leaving rings on the table because of how poorly he plays for 50% of the game. Just think of it this way. If he's that good statistically he should be winning more.
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Then why did AD have 5 losing season in Nola? I guess he’s just not that good of an all around player
 
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#125,787
#125,787
MoCo_Vol said:
Right, then he went a full ass season averaging 16.4 and 9.7 for Cavs before then having another role player type season the year they won the title.

They didn't get 26 & 12.5 Love at all, and they had 2 full seasons of proof with him as a Cav to know that going into those playoffs...

Still though Kevin Love isn't a HOF player.
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Clearly he can't use his eyes, or his reality is different from anyone else's on the planet.
 
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#125,789
#125,789
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
No it means a lot. Which is why I have him as a top 5 player despite his putrid defense. Jokic is so good offensively that even a guy like myself who values defense will give him props for how impactful he still is despite hurting his team on defense.

If Jokic played better defense the Nuggets would be dynasty like the 90s Bulls. That's how bad his defense is. He's leaving rings on the table because of how poorly he plays for 50% of the game. Just think of it this way. If he's that good statistically he should be winning more.
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He literally grades out as an average defender. According to your metrics, he won a title already with a team weaker than any MJ, Kobe, or LeBron team.

If he played better defense he would have a dynasty with Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray?
 
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#125,790
#125,790
Smokey123 said:
You literally said “until lebron outplayed him in the finals” you also used stats for your reason AD was better that year…
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I should have included the word statistically there. And I already explained why I used stats there. It's because I like exposing the hypocrisy of LeBron fans like yourself who will gladly post stats when they benefit LeBron in an argument versus a player but then ignore stats when they don't favor LeBron. I've already said I rate players solely using the eye test. But when I can I will use stats to expose the hypocrisy of those I'm debating.
 
#125,791
#125,791
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
I should have included the word statistically there. And I already explained why I used stats there. It's because I like exposing the hypocrisy of LeBron fans like yourself who will gladly post stats when they benefit LeBron in an argument versus a player but then ignore stats when they don't favor LeBron. I've already said I rate players solely using the eye test. But when I can I will use stats to expose the hypocrisy of those I'm debating.
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I never once posted or used stats as an argument. You brought them up.

Nor am I a lebron fan. I don’t like him. You’re the one who brought him up when talking about AD
 
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#125,793
#125,793
Smokey123 said:
Harden was not a superstar on OKC. He was coming off the bench and didn’t develop into elite until he left.
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Eye test would have told you he was a superstar. I personally feared him on that team more than Russ. He killed the Lakers in that 2012 playoff series coming off the bench. The only reason his production wasn't greater was because of circumstance. Once he got to Houston the following year he put up superstar numbers. He was already a superstar talent in 2012 he just didn't have the opportunity to show it on the stat sheet however if you watched him play you knew he was a problem.
 
#125,797
#125,797
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Well AD not in any GOAT conversations. If he were then the mickey mouse ring would pale in comparison to a real championships like those won by Hakeem.

Everything is about context. In the context of GOAT debates everything gets parsed.
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You're the guy that took a "top 5 current players" debate from AD > Jokic to debating Lebron's "mickey mouse" championship, pal.
 
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#125,798
#125,798
Smokey123 said:
Then why did AD have 5 losing season in Nola? I guess he’s just not that good of an all around player
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Supporting cast matters. I'd have loved to see what AD could have done with Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr., and Aaron Gordon. Those 3 are all borderline all-star caliber talents. Those 3 plus AD could have done some damage.
 
#125,799
#125,799
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Eye test would have told you he was a superstar. I personally feared him on that team more than Russ. He killed the Lakers in that 2012 playoff series coming off the bench. The only reason his production wasn't greater was because of circumstance. Once he got to Houston the following year he put up superstar numbers. He was already a superstar talent in 2012 he just didn't have the opportunity to show it on the stat sheet however if you watched him play you knew he was a problem.
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Potential doesn’t mean anything. There’s plenty of amazing players in every sport sitting on the bench waiting for an opportunity. That doesn’t mean they get classified as a superstar before getting that chance.
 
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