Recruiting Football Talk VIII

#82,026
#82,026
MoCo_Vol said:
There is no illegal touching UNLESS an ineligible player touches the ball. I'm not wrong on that.

And for the last time (I hope) it WAS NOT ILLEGAL MAN DOWNFIELD. A WR wearing an eligible jersey number CANNOT be an ineligible player, but they CAN be flagged for illegal touching.

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Your google AI search results are not the source of truth in these matters lol. Only eligible players by number AND position (i.e. someone in the backfield or someone on the end of the line of scrimmage) may go downfield for a pass. So yes, a WR wearing an eligible number CAN be an ineligible man downfield if he was covered up (meaning he was on the line of scrimmage but was not the outermost player on the line of scrimmage).

But since we're snipping google AI search results, here you go. You'll see how incorrect the AI bot can be because its definition of covered up means one who is closely guarded by a defender haha. But still, it's a penalty for going downfield if you're covered up.

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#82,028
#82,028
Illegal touch is when a receiver goes out of bounds and touches the ball first. The official made the wrong call , it should've been ineligible receiver downfield. ,

I could be wrong and honestly who cares it was against Alabama..
 
#82,029
#82,029
jave36 said:
Correct.

But there IS ineligible man downfield regardless of whether or not anyone touches it. And since most of the time an official at the line of scrimmage has no idea if someone 50+ yards away touches the ball first (if it's tipped by the DB it's not illegal touching, but the official at the LOS isn't close enough to see if the DB got a hand on it), the correct way to call it is to throw the flag immediately at the throw because a foul has been committed as soon as the ball is thrown. Even when the QB throws the ball out of bounds just to avoid a sack, it's still an ineligible man downfield penalty if a covered up WR went downfield.

So there's no reason for him to wait to throw the flag; it's actually a mechanics mistake to wait to throw the flag. And it's not a common mistake. Again, that would be like a NASA engineer turning the screwdriver the wrong way, it's that level of basic mistake to wait to throw the flag.
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I think the nuance here is the penalty is called after the pass is thrown, but maybe I'm wrong.

After the pass is thrown:
- If the covered up player is downfield but doesn't touch the ball, it is called ineligible man downfield.
- If the covered up player touches the ball, it is illegal touching.

In this instance there would have been no penalty if Williams stayed on the LOS and blocked or if Milroe would have taken off and ran it.

Not that any of this matters anyway, because he wasn't covered up and it was an awful call.
 
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#82,036
#82,036
rjd970 said:
I think the nuance here is the penalty is called after the pass is thrown, but maybe I'm wrong.

After the pass is thrown:
- If the covered up player is downfield but doesn't touch the ball, it is called ineligible man downfield.
- If the covered up player touches the ball, it is illegal touching.

In this instance there would have been no penalty if Williams stayed on the LOS and blocked or if Milroe would have taken off and ran it.

Not that any of this matters anyway, because he wasn't covered up and it was an awful call.
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You nailed it. Which is why my point is that the official needed to throw the flag as soon as the pass was thrown. By waiting for him to catch the TD to throw the flag, he opens himself up for accusations that he was just looking for an excuse to take the TD off the board. If he REALLY believed Williams was covered up, he'd have thrown the flag as soon as the pass was thrown.

I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories, I think SEC officials are just incompetent because it's a good ole boys network instead of merit-based. But gross incompetence can lead to accusations of corruption because sometimes it looks the same. Though I definitely think corruption does happen, just not on a grand, organized scale at the league office level.

I think this guy was ball-watching because he's not a good official, and he belatedly remembered to throw the flag after the touchdown because he was so caught up in seeing if the deep bomb would be caught. But he puts himself in the position to be accused of point shaving by not being good at his job.
 
#82,041
#82,041
jave36 said:
You nailed it. Which is why my point is that the official needed to throw the flag as soon as the pass was thrown. By waiting for him to catch the TD to throw the flag, he opens himself up for accusations that he was just looking for an excuse to take the TD off the board. If he REALLY believed Williams was covered up, he'd have thrown the flag as soon as the pass was thrown.

I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theories, I think SEC officials are just incompetent because it's a good ole boys network instead of merit-based. But gross incompetence can lead to accusations of corruption because sometimes it looks the same. Though I definitely think corruption does happen, just not on a grand, organized scale at the league office level.

I think this guy was ball-watching because he's not a good official, and he belatedly remembered to throw the flag after the touchdown because he was so caught up in seeing if the deep bomb would be caught. But he puts himself in the position to be accused of point shaving by not being good at his job.
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It was a late flag for sure, but not as late if he waited to see if the pass was thrown before flagging it. I think there is some confusion on the penalty and how it works. The official got it wrong, but for this call, I don't think the flag was egregiously late. But that is just my opinion.
 
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#82,045
#82,045
rjd970 said:
I think the nuance here is the penalty is called after the pass is thrown, but maybe I'm wrong.

After the pass is thrown:
- If the covered up player is downfield but doesn't touch the ball, it is called ineligible man downfield.
- If the covered up player touches the ball, it is illegal touching.

In this instance there would have been no penalty if Williams stayed on the LOS and blocked or if Milroe would have taken off and ran it.

Not that any of this matters anyway, because he wasn't covered up and it was an awful call.
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Could be, Williams was eligible and it was a bad call regardless.
 
#82,048
#82,048
Dudley Smith said:
You know things are going well in the athletic department when I see poll rankings of #6/#7 and have to look a second time to determine whether it’s talking about football or basketball, as both are equally plausible. Good times.
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I was just wondering the same thing. It’s such a relief knowing that I don’t have to just rely on Barnes and Co. to bring my orange heart happiness!
 
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#82,049
#82,049
Dudley Smith said:
You know things are going well in the athletic department when I see poll rankings of #6/#7 and have to look a second time to determine whether it’s talking about football or basketball, as both are equally plausible. Good times.
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Can’t be baseball because they are #1, so yeah football or basketball are the only options when you see #6 or #7

:cool:

Fun time to be a Vol!
 
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