Recruiting Forum: Football Talk II

[howie87]

I give Dooley a fair shake. When we lose a game we should win, or make dumb mistakes, I will definitely criticize, and have. But honestly, we built this hype machine that went out of control, and amplified the problems this year. A huge portion of the fan base through in the towel after the Florida game. For the last month, every thread talks about gruden. It's just not right.

IMO, the only defense Dooley can muster, is against Sal and anyone can see the validity in that. Did he wait to long to make a change, etc.? I think so, but Hart was a huge part of the hire and maybe he wouldn't let Dooley step in. We can never judge the unknown, but people on this board LOVE to speculate and make assumptions

Wow... A little bit of common sense and truth on this board...

 

[thunder5]

I give Dooley a fair shake. When we lose a game we should win, or make dumb mistakes, I will definitely criticize, and have. But honestly, we built this hype machine that went out of control, and amplified the problems this year. A huge portion of the fan base through in the towel after the Florida game. For the last month, every thread talks about gruden. It's just not right.

IMO, the only defense Dooley can muster, is against Sal and anyone can see the validity in that. Did he wait to long to make a change, etc.? I think so, but Hart was a huge part of the hire and maybe he wouldn't let Dooley step in. We can never judge the unknown, but people on this board LOVE to speculate and make assumptions

The thing about Dooley that I keep coming back to is that if/when you look at each individual aspect of the game it has all improved under his watch with the exception of this years defense...which has been atrocious....it's a shame that one bad hire has cost us at least 3 games this year and possibly cost Dooley his job...

Offense, special teams (kicking, coverage and returns), roster depth and talent, playing with effort...all of these things have improved...most of them drastically...under Dooley....but one bad call on a hire may ultimately do him in

 

[RM20]

Pelini doesn't look real hot at Nebraska right now. D'antonio learned a lot about running a team from the sweater vest.

Muschamp learned as much about defense from Tubberville as he did under Saban. Calling him a Saban student is kinda iffy these days. In an interview Muschamp said he didn't like Saban at all.

D'antonio learned most of his defensive knowledge ( what he is known for) from Saban, Sweater vest was an offensive guy.

Muschamp learned most of his defensive knowledge under Saban. Most people will tell you the same thing, its not even a topic up for debate to be honest. He was under Saban for 5 years and had already had top notch defenses before he even got to Auburn. Muschamp has never said in an interview he didnt like Saban. If so, can you post that interview. Would definitely be appreciated

 

[UTMark]

The thing about Dooley that I keep coming back to is that if/when you look at each individual aspect of the game it has all improved under his watch with the exception of this years defense...which has been atrocious....it's a shame that one bad hire has cost us at least 3 games this year and possibly cost Dooley his job...

Offense, special teams (kicking, coverage and returns), roster depth and talent, playing with effort...all of these things have improved...most of them drastically...under Dooley....but one bad call on a hire may ultimately do him in

I said the these exact words last night to a friend, Thunder. We are a better team now than 3 years ago. I wonder, if we go out and win the last 3 convincingly, could it save his job? I think it might.

 

[The Breakerboy]

I give Dooley a fair shake. When we lose a game we should win, or make dumb mistakes, I will definitely criticize, and have. But honestly, we built this hype machine that went out of control, and amplified the problems this year. A huge portion of the fan base through in the towel after the Florida game. For the last month, every thread talks about gruden. It's just not right.

IMO, the only defense Dooley can muster, is against Sal and anyone can see the validity in that. Did he wait to long to make a change, etc.? I think so, but Hart was a huge part of the hire and maybe he wouldn't let Dooley step in. We can never judge the unknown, but people on this board LOVE to speculate and make assumptions

Dooley built this hype. He said I've got the horses to play with anybody for 4 quarters this year.

Also we weren't supposed to lose to Mississippi State. That's not a good football team.

Also he got killed at home by Bama. And as you watched the Bama-LSU game it was pretty clear that our coaches didn't gameplan well at all.

Can you honestly say from a football standpoint that we look better coached than we did Dooley's first year? I don't see it personally. I don't see a player that they've developed well outside of Graham and Pittman's units( :salute: to both guys). I've supported Dooley and given him a fair shake(you know I have). But he's not getting it done on the recruiting trail or the field. What makes you think it's going to get better under him in the future?

Mistakes are being made on the recruiting trail that shouldn't be made. We're offering big-time guys late. We're not making contact with big prospects for months( Geno Smith CB, EJ Levenberry LB at two positions of need too) that were very high on us. These guys are impact recruits too. We're taking marginal guys that can't help us (Devrin Young, Cody Blanc, Josh Smith) instead of going after guys that could easily help our team now now(Andrew Buie, Ameer Abdullah, Trae Elston). Then we get stupid and don't address needs well. We needed front seven help last class. We were only going to take 3 LBs when that number should've been 6. We took only 3 DBs knowing the secondary needed help(Elston,Shelton, and Crawley come to mind). They were banking on one speed rusher in Denico Autry(never put all your eggs in one basket)knowing we needed a pass rush. Then we take ZERO OL in this last class.

Nick I respect your opinion and all but the issues I have with this Coach are realistic and should never happen with a guy that says he's detailed oriented. He coaches like a lawyer and not as a football coach to me. :hi:

 

[volprof]

Quite frankly, I'm not sure this team is much better than the first one Dooley fielded in 2010, which was a hodge podge of Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley spare parts essentially.

 

[The Breakerboy]

D'antonio learned most of his defensive knowledge ( what he is known for) from Saban, Sweater vest was an offensive guy.

Muschamp learned most of his defensive knowledge under Saban. Most people will tell you the same thing, its not even a topic up for debate to be honest. He was under Saban for 5 years and had already had top notch defenses before he even got to Auburn. Muschamp has never said in an interview he didnt like Saban. If so, can you post that interview. Would definitely be appreciated

My buddy that's a Gator fan showed me the article from the interview last year before the season(I blew it off because it wasn't my coach it was talking about). Also I said Dantonio learned how to run a TEAM from the sweater vest.

Muschamp's defense now looks a bit different from Saban's and it plays a bit different too. He uses a lot more of the concepts that I watched Tubbs use at Auburn and Texas Tech to an extent. I view Muschamp's defenses as Muschamp defenses and not as Saban cloned units. He has his own style of defense and it came from working under different coaches than good old Nick. Nick Saban played a major role but he doesn't run the exact same system(I actually think he runs a better system).

 

[The Breakerboy]

Quite frankly, I'm not sure this team is much better than the first one Dooley fielded in 2010, which was a hodge podge of Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley spare parts essentially.

The team is better talent wise but not coaching wise to me.

Any team with Matt Simms leading the charge and Taurean Poole at RB is terrible...

 

[volprof]

The team is better talent wise but not coaching wise to me.

Any team with Matt Simms leading the charge and Taurean Poole at RB is terrible...

Yeah, I agree with you. My comment was in reference to performance. I agree: this team is much more talented than 2010.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Dooley built this hype. He said I've got the horses to play with anybody for 4 quarters this year.

Also we weren't supposed to lose to Mississippi State. That's not a good football team.

Also he got killed at home by Bama. And as you watched the Bama-LSU game it was pretty clear that our coaches didn't gameplan well at all.

Can you honestly say from a football standpoint that we look better coached than we did Dooley's first year? I don't see it personally. I don't see a player that they've developed well outside of Graham and Pittman's units( :salute: to both guys). I've supported Dooley and given him a fair shake(you know I have). But he's not getting it done on the recruiting trail or the field. What makes you think it's going to get better under him in the future?

Mistakes are being made on the recruiting trail that shouldn't be made. We're offering big-time guys late. We're not making contact with big prospects for months( Geno Smith CB, EJ Levenberry LB at two positions of need too) that were very high on us. These guys are impact recruits too. We're taking marginal guys that can't help us (Devrin Young, Cody Blanc, Josh Smith) instead of going after guys that could easily help our team now now(Andrew Buie, Ameer Abdullah, Trae Elston). Then we get stupid and don't address needs well. We needed front seven help last class. We were only going to take 3 LBs when that number should've been 6. We took only 3 DBs knowing the secondary needed help(Elston,Shelton, and Crawley come to mind). They were banking on one speed rusher in Denico Autry(never put all your eggs in one basket)knowing we needed a pass rush. Then we take ZERO OL in this last class.

Nick I respect your opinion and all but the issues I have with this Coach are realistic and should never happen with a guy that says he's detailed oriented. He coaches like a lawyer and not as a football coach to me. :hi:

I will not disagree on any points. Another thing is talent evaluation and development. No player has exceeded recruiting ranking, or potential in my opinion. This makes the recent offers more disturbing. I can argue Dooley, either way, lol. That's reality, I think.

 

[The Breakerboy]

I will not disagree on any points. Another thing is talent evaluation and development. No player has exceeded recruiting ranking, or potential in my opinion. This makes the recent offers more disturbing. I can argue Dooley, either way, lol. That's reality, I think.

AJ Johnson shows me what is what with this coaching staff. He's only improved as an athlete. As a player he's the same as last year. Which is a major league problem for us.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

AJ Johnson shows me what is what with this coaching staff. He's only improved as an athlete. As a player he's the same as last year. Which is a major league problem for us.

Based on what we have both said about talent evaluation and player development, I think all can agree than for the most part, we have failed. This is the one thing that cannot simply be explained away, and falls directly on the staff. For this reason, a coaching change is most likely the best decision, but everything must be seen in context. Skeeter says no one worth their salt will touch this job given the administrative issues beyond the coaches control. So therein, lies the problem. Would you be content to uproot the staff to take a chance on an unproven coach?

 

[UTMark]

AJ Johnson shows me what is what with this coaching staff. He's only improved as an athlete. As a player he's the same as last year. Which is a major league problem for us.

Could it be because we switched from a 4-3 to 3-4? I'm not trying to make excuses for this D staff because it has been horrible, but one if the things for this year that us valid is that they are thinking too much and not playing football.

Saying that, I thought by MSU that they would be playing faster and that goes back to coaching.

 

[HankHill]

Quite frankly, I'm not sure this team is much better than the first one Dooley fielded in 2010, which was a hodge podge of Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley spare parts essentially.

This is crazy. That team could barely cross the 50

 

[The Breakerboy]

Based on what we have both said about talent evaluation and player development, I think all can agree than for the most part, we have failed. This is the one thing that cannot simply be explained away, and falls directly on the staff. For this reason, a coaching change is most likely the best decision, but everything must be seen in context. Skeeter says no one worth their salt will touch this job given the administrative issues beyond the coaches control. So therein, lies the problem. Would you be content to uproot the staff to take a chance on an unproven coach?

This coach has proven he can lose all types of ways. What's the point in allowing him to do more damage to our program? He's not recruiting good enough and he doesn't develop players well. Dooley is an AD that's trying to coach football.

 

[volprof]

This is crazy. That team could barely cross the 50

Which is sad, because I still stand by that post.

 

[The Breakerboy]

Could it be because we switched from a 4-3 to 3-4? I'm not trying to make excuses for this D staff because it has been horrible, but one if the things for this year that us valid is that they are thinking too much and not playing football.

Saying that, I thought by MSU that they would be playing faster and that goes back to coaching.

AJ Johnson and Maggitt learned a new system out of HS last year. Sentimore played in a similar system early in his career. McCullers is built for this. Lathers should know how to line guys up by now. He's an eight-year senior. The secondary doesn't really have as big a problem. Coverages are called and they aren't as complicated. Maybe with how they play the coverages it's a bit different but the concepts don't change a lot on the backend. I think with this staff they want everyone to know what everyone else is doing when these players should concentrate on one position period when the play is called. Learning one position will allow players to play fast and hard without thinking. It also allows more players to play. But Sal is just a damn idiot.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Could it be because we switched from a 4-3 to 3-4? I'm not trying to make excuses for this D staff because it has been horrible, but one if the things for this year that us valid is that they are thinking too much and not playing football.

Saying that, I thought by MSU that they would be playing faster and that goes back to coaching.

Very little can be attributed to that. Maybe the speed at which he plays, due to uncertainty about the defense and assignments in the passing hame, but that's about it. Issues that should be resolved by now:

1. Disengaging blockers.
2. Taking blockers on with the correct shoulder to allow a chance to make a play. Too often he is locked up directly on top of them.
3. Wrapped up, leg driving tackles as opposed to just getting there and slinging the down by the jersey.

Of course you can point out times when he has done these things correctly, but often times, this is what happens. This does not negate the positive things he has done. It's just the way it is.

 

[RikidyBones]

Dooley built this hype. He said I've got the horses to play with anybody for 4 quarters this year.
:hi:

Do you believe this was a false statement? I don't.

 

[SCvol333]

The thing about Dooley that I keep coming back to is that if/when you look at each individual aspect of the game it has all improved under his watch with the exception of this years defense...which has been atrocious....it's a shame that one bad hire has cost us at least 3 games this year and possibly cost Dooley his job...

Offense, special teams (kicking, coverage and returns), roster depth and talent, playing with effort...all of these things have improved...most of them drastically...under Dooley....but one bad call on a hire may ultimately do him in

what is worse from DD's perspective is that it wasnt even his call - the insiders on the board all insinuated that pulling Sal was in large part Hart's call

Hart now gets a pass as a genius that is getting us Gruden instead of being called out as the idiot that brought in someone as a DC w/no playcalling experience to think of but who could get really excited

who knows what happens if DD brings in his preferred DC but it must suck to go out and the AD stay when it was his call that determined your fate

 

[The Breakerboy]

Do you believe this was a false statement? I don't.

Should have 1 loss at the most. The Bama game could've been a lot better with the offensive firepower we've got.

 

[SCvol333]

AJ Johnson and Maggitt learned a new system out of HS last year. Sentimore played in a similar system early in his career. McCullers is built for this. Lathers should know how to line guys up by now. He's an eight-year senior. The secondary doesn't really have as big a problem. Coverages are called and they aren't as complicated. Maybe with how they play the coverages it's a bit different but the concepts don't change a lot on the backend. I think with this staff they want everyone to know what everyone else is doing when these players should concentrate on one position period when the play is called. Learning one position will allow players to play fast and hard without thinking. It also allows more players to play. But Sal is just a damn idiot.

thank you - truer words have never been said than "But Sal is just a damn idiot"

learning a new scheme is not an excuse to be 100+ in the country on defense - does anyone not think there were any other new DC's in the country this year - we are arguably as bad as any defense in the country and if you argue worst production in light of personnel ability i think we are hands down the worst - this is all on Sal

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Should have 1 loss at the most. The Bama game could've been a lot better with the offensive firepower we've got.

I think we have the horses to run... But maybe our defensive jockey can't make them run.

 

[RM20]

My buddy that's a Gator fan showed me the article from the interview last year before the season(I blew it off because it wasn't my coach it was talking about). Also I said Dantonio learned how to run a TEAM from the sweater vest.

Muschamp's defense now looks a bit different from Saban's and it plays a bit different too. He uses a lot more of the concepts that I watched Tubbs use at Auburn and Texas Tech to an extent. I view Muschamp's defenses as Muschamp defenses and not as Saban cloned units. He has his own style of defense and it came from working under different coaches than good old Nick. Nick Saban played a major role but he doesn't run the exact same system(I actually think he runs a better system).

True, they dont run the same system. I dont see how his system is better though. When Muschamp has a top 5 defense for 5 straight years (top 3 for four of those years) then his system can be compared.


You cant say Dantonio learned how to run a TEAM from just the Sweater Vest either. The Vest won games but he couldnt control alot of his players. Dantonio players rarely get in trouble and he builds his team around ball control and defense just like Saban's does.

 

[RikidyBones]

Should have 1 loss at the most. The Bama game could've been a lot better with the offensive firepower we've got.

And that's my point. We have the ability to say that. I'm not saying its a reason to keep Dooley, I'm just saying there is improvement in the actual competition part of the games.