Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[TechnoVol]

the season has imploded

Fixed it...

 

[InVOLuntary]

i think they know it hurts. there's an opportunity cost associated with sucking at football no matter what the stadium looks like.

just look at enrollment numbers at places that have experienced success at a high level over the past decade+.....Auburn has seen enrollments increase, 24k in 2008 to over 30k in 2020.
Alabama...27k in 2008 to 38k in 2019
Florida's enrollment is on the up, but guess what, it took a bit of dip between Meyer and mullen...it's uncanny....52k in 2008 to a low of 49k in 2011, now back up to 58k in 2020.
LSU was steady since 2010 at around 30k/year....then, the past two years, over 35k....
Even UGA's, which aren't near as significant as some of these mentioned, was steady at 34k/year from 2010 til 2015....then it's bumped up every year since to now 38k/year.

Tennesse...27k 2008...30k 2020...

so the losses over time are significant....our competition is seeing exteme growth over the last 12 years, some averaging +10k per year increases now vs. then.

whereas we're at +3k/year, which is organic growth at best.

and you're not gonna convince me that those programs having good/solid/elite programs dont' have anyhthing to do with that.

I was told enrollment has little to do with football. The URL campus has pretty much been maxed out. I don't think they're really wanting new students. The only reason the academic side gives anything about the football program is what it's potential is to share revenue.

Where it hurts them is when they lose 10,000 seasons ticket holders. Let's say each ticket is worth $700. Add in the $500 donation that puts it at $1200. $1200 x 10,000 = $12,000,000. That's only considering the minimums. That also doesn't take into account the concessions, and merchandising sales. You lose 10,000 season ticket holders, (10% of the capacity) then you really have no choice but to fire the coach.

 

[IndependentVol]

Lovie???

i am trying ti


I’m trying to think of an NFL head coach that failed in college after their NFL. I’m sure there is one but I can’t think of one

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

I was told enrollment has little to do with football. The URL campus has pretty much been maxed out. I don't think they're really wanting new students. The only reason the academic side gives anything about the football program is what it's potential is to share revenue.

Where it hurts them is when they lose 10,000 seasons ticket holders. Let's say each ticket is worth $700. Add in the $500 donation that puts it at $1200. $1200 x 10,000 = $12,000,000. That's only considering the minimums. That also doesn't take into account the concessions, and merchandising sales. You lose 10,000 season ticket holders, (10% of the capacity) then you really have no choice but to fire the coach.

Then I say let’s make it happen! How can we use social media to push all season ticket holders to call the ticket office and tell them that if Pruitt is not gone by the end of this year and Freeze hired, then they are not renewing their season tickets next year.

 

[KPT_VFL]

Is it Freeze yet?

 

[Devo182]

People forget that we wouldn’t be paying Pruitt the full buyout.

He won’t just sit on a buyout. He’ll go be Alabama’s defensive coordinator again, likely making about 1 mil per year, which would cut into it. The only reason we’re still paying Lyle is because he never took another paid coaching position. Pruitt isn’t gonna do that.. he’ll run back to Saban. Unfortunately, that’ll mean Alabama will have historically elite defenses again like they did in 2016. And he may try and take recruits with him. Which is why I think if you’re gonna do it, you DO NOT just clean house entirely. Keep some of those guys, because there genuinely good position coaches and recruiters.

Siap but LWS posted his extension contract made it so his buyout would not be reduced by a new job. Other staff buyouts would be, but not CJP's.

 

[Orangeredblooded]

Hope everyone is well. @InVOLuntary someone on the board told me about about your mother. I was so sorry to hear that. What a tough road that was--for her and your family.

For anyone who cares-- Pruitt was hired with the implicit agreement that he would be given five years. There was consensus that UT couldn’t afford to make another coaching change in less than five years and that the new HC needed five years to rebuild a badly damaged program. Pruitt was Fulmer’s guy, and his hiring came with the expectation-- and assurance-- that Fulmer would use his experience to help Pruitt scale the learning curve, and together they could return UT to respectability within five years. If not, then UT would be recruiting well and be in a good position to make the necessary changes.

Pruitt wasn’t ready for a job as big, difficult and demanding as UT’s. Being a great DC doesn't make him good enough at the many facets of the HC job and he won’t be good enough for a while, if ever. Many donors and board members felt that UT should hire an experienced HC for a massive rebuild with high expectations and an impatient fanbase. Fulmer went way out on a limb for Pruitt, and UT unified behind him. Pruitt has been a disappointment and he’s a divisive personality. He’s pissed off a lot of people, so UT is no longer unified.

The easy solution is what needs to be done eventually is best done immediately. But Sexton negotiated a sweetheart deal for Pruitt, and Fulmer doubled down. Fulmer is tied to Pruitt, so don’t expect him to do anything except publicly stand behind this coaching staff. And don't expect a lot of donors to be okay with that.

Buying out assistants with longer-term contracts would be throwing money at the wrong solution. Either fix the problem or ride it out another year or two.

Good to see you post again.

 

[KPT_VFL]

Siap but LWS posted his extension contract made it so his buyout would not be reduced by a new job. Other staff buyouts would be, but not CJP's.

We need to separate ourself from Jimmy Sexton clients. Unless Freeze is a client of his.

 

[PassedOutAwake]

UGA vs Mizzou game postponed

 

[jakez4ut]

I was told enrollment has little to do with football. The URL campus has pretty much been maxed out. I don't think they're really wanting new students. The only reason the academic side gives anything about the football program is what it's potential is to share revenue.

Where it hurts them is when they lose 10,000 seasons ticket holders. Let's say each ticket is worth $700. Add in the $500 donation that puts it at $1200. $1200 x 10,000 = $12,000,000. That's only considering the minimums. That also doesn't take into account the concessions, and merchandising sales. You lose 10,000 season ticket holders, (10% of the capacity) then you really have no choice but to fire the coach.

i'm not disputing that empty seats = lost $

i'm just saying there's already a known loss, and it's the opportunity cost of lost enrollments. i don't know a university out there that doesn't want more students. they're constantly building and changing things on that campus to accomodate changes...and i know they've done away with several of the older student housing buildings in favor of newer, bigger, more modern ones.

that money has to come frome somewhere, and there's a mutually beneficial relationship there.

that, and i just don't see fans giving up football by choice, when this season, they've pretty much had the choice taken from them.

people will still show up once they can show up.....

 

[RiotVol]

i think they know it hurts. there's an opportunity cost associated with sucking at football no matter what the stadium looks like.

just look at enrollment numbers at places that have experienced success at a high level over the past decade+.....Auburn has seen enrollments increase, 24k in 2008 to over 30k in 2020.
Alabama...27k in 2008 to 38k in 2019
Florida's enrollment is on the up, but guess what, it took a bit of dip between Meyer and mullen...it's uncanny....52k in 2008 to a low of 49k in 2011, now back up to 58k in 2020.
LSU was steady since 2010 at around 30k/year....then, the past two years, over 35k....
Even UGA's, which aren't near as significant as some of these mentioned, was steady at 34k/year from 2010 til 2015....then it's bumped up every year since to now 38k/year.

Tennesse...27k 2008...30k 2020...

so the losses over time are significant....our competition is seeing exteme growth over the last 12 years, some averaging +10k per year increases now vs. then.

whereas we're at +3k/year, which is organic growth at best.

and you're not gonna convince me that those programs having good/solid/elite programs dont' have anyhthing to do with that.

This is a great synopsis of how these place “think.” Every SEC pres/provost/chancellor knows this.

One of my former profs at UT told me once that “this place makes a whole lot more sense when you realize that it’s a corporation masquerading as a medieval institution.”

With declining state support, tuition is the golden goose. If enrollments start declining and they figure out that itheir once mighty football “billboard” now makes the university look like losers and it’s impacting their ability to ask for nice things on the academic side...

 

[Vol423]

I think we are past the forgiveness stage
He shouldn’t have lost the Arky game with a bye week to prepare. Just awful

Pruitt's teams consistently do WORSE with time to prepare. We're horrible at the start of each season, we're not good after bye weeks, and we play like crap in bowl games.

 

[KB5252]

Based on what's happening league wide I expect the season to be canned. Not sure if that's good or bad given our current predicament.

 

[InVOLuntary]

i'm not disputing that empty seats = lost $

i'm just saying there's already a known loss, and it's the opportunity cost of lost enrollments. i don't know a university out there that doesn't want more students. they're constantly building and changing things on that campus to accomodate changes...and i know they've done away with several of the older student housing buildings in favor of newer, bigger, more modern ones.

that money has to come frome somewhere, and there's a mutually beneficial relationship there.

that, and i just don't see fans giving up football by choice, when this season, they've pretty much had the choice taken from them.

people will still show up once they can show up.....

I'm just relaying what I was told. They're maxed out on what the campus can hold. They've raised entry requirements. I really don't think they're looking for new students. At least that's the case for UTK.

 

[KPT_VFL]

Based on what's happening league wide I expect the season to be canned. Not sure if that's good or bad given our current predicament.

What’s sad is it’s all contact tracing not even positives. Think most teams only had like 1-2

 

[DarkAvenger]

Bryce has honestly played well he just has been very close to some big TOs and can’t finish on the ball that’s what I’m most shocked about honestly... I thought we’d be one of the more opportunistic defenses in the country coming into the season with the experience we have...

He has done well, I’m just saying he hasn’t been as good as the previous two years. I’m not meaning to imply he is playing awful but I do think he has definitely lost draft value from this season.

 

[Glocker_Alum_2005]

Pruitt's teams consistently do WORSE with time to prepare. We're horrible at the start of each season, we're not good after bye weeks, and we play like crap in bowl games.

Well we can only hope HB gets the lion's share of the snaps in practice and is ready to roll when JG starts with his 3 and outs.

 

[Poppa T]

Siap but LWS posted his extension contract made it so his buyout would not be reduced by a new job. Other staff buyouts would be, but not CJP's.

Correct. Released w/out cause there is no future employment mitigation. His buyout is 60% of the (annual base + supplemental)×(years left on contract)

 

[gordonr24]

Yep. I think liberty did him a favor. They know he's gonna go. Now they've made it where he'll get more to do so... And it'll happen.

Liberty is a rehab stop for Freeze. And they definitely know it.

 

[jakez4ut]

This is a great synopsis of how these place “think.” Every SEC pres/provost/chancellor knows this.

One of my former profs at UT told me once that “this place makes a whole more sense when you realize that it’s a corporation masquerading as a medieval institution.”

With declining state support, tuition is the golden goose. If enrollments start declining and they figure out that it’s due to their once mighty football “billboard” now makes the university look like losers and it’s impacting their ability to ask for nice things on the academic side...

they don't call it the "front porch" for nothing. implied or otherwise, you're not gonna convince me that enrollments being what htey are here, vs some of those other places, that there's no correlation....i doubt seriously there's a metric you could point to or measure that says one equals the other....and i realize that...but it's just not lost on me watching what's happened eslwehere, vs. here.

and the other thing to consider about htat is that this organic growth UT has seen in enrollments also coincides with what has been the big population boom in Nashville and the mid state in general. i don't know if htey keep numbers on that level of detail, but you'd figure that over the course of a 12 year period, when your flagship city experiences the growth it has, your flagship university should see a "boom" as well. it hasn't happened.....

Alabama saw an average of about 1000 students per year increase in enrollment over the past 12 years.

Tennesse saw an average of 235, including two years where enrollment down.
nashville's populaution growth from 08 to 20 went from 900k to over 1.2M....don't know the mid state in general, and i realize those are broad strokes....but you'd think UT could afford to enroll more than an additional 200 kids a year.

all im saying is that if yo're good at football, it helps the whole picture....it's not just about butts in seats, that's just the most tangible pc of the pie.

 

[UT = Checkmate]

Was that a Jimmy Hyams alert by any chance?

Lol, man I honestly haven’t been on here. Needed a mental break.

 

[Vol423]

Siap but LWS posted his extension contract made it so his buyout would not be reduced by a new job. Other staff buyouts would be, but not CJP's.

Good...yet another reason to fire Phil.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

We arent favored in 3 of our last 4 games. How dense do you have to be to NOT try something new on offense? Literally stupid

DUMB DOWN THE PLAYBOOK AND START HB

Playbook is dumbed down for JG.
We need a playbook that is designed for HB’s talents. Hell, run the offense he ran in High School.

 

[Aesius]

Good...yet another reason to fire Phil.

Phil's legacy is gonna be completely ruined if he lets JP hang around another year and tank the program.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

they don't call it the "front porch" for nothing. implied or otherwise, you're not gonna convince me that enrollments being what htey are here, vs some of those other places, that there's no correlation....i doubt seriously there's a metric you could point to or measure that says one equals the other....and i realize that...but it's just not lost on me watching what's happened eslwehere, vs. here.

and the other thing to consider about htat is that this organic growth UT has seen in enrollments also coincides with what has been the big population boom in Nashville and the mid state in general. i don't know if htey keep numbers on that level of detail, but you'd figure that over the course of a 12 year period, when your flagship city experiences the growth it has, your flagship university should see a "boom" as well. it hasn't happened.....

Alabama saw an average of about 1000 students per year increase in enrollment over the past 12 years.

Tennesse saw an average of 235, including two years where enrollment down.
nashville's populaution growth from 08 to 20 went from 900k to over 1.2M....don't know the mid state in general, and i realize those are broad strokes....but you'd think UT could afford to enroll more than an additional 200 kids a year.

all im saying is that if yo're good at football, it helps the whole picture....it's not just about butts in seats, that's just the most tangible pc of the pie.

I'm a professor and I am constantly amazed by many of my colleagues' inability to process how athletics can benefit the entire university. It's just a fact that it matters in recruiting students, unless your academics/reputation building sell themselves (think Vanderbilt, Harvard, etc.). Colorado has severe self-imposed penalties ever since the investigation into Gary Barnett in 2004 that have totally handicapped the Buffs and prevented them from ever reaching anything approaching even mediocrity, and my advisor sat on that committee and used to brag to me about how he'd helped kill Colorado football. He wanted all major collegiate sports abolished and a return to intramurals. I thought he was nuts, and told him so, and he answered that one day some university president is going to wheel me out to talk about how great sports are. If that moment comes, I'm happy to do it.