Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[GroverCleveland]

I have serious doubts as to CJP's temperament to be a head coach at this stage, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Having finished his third year, CJP is a junior with regards to being a HC and has certainly taken some lumps. The game has changed. Alabama and UGA have stacked the defensive side of the ball with some of the best talent in the country and have looked inept against some great offenses. Saban adjusted far more quickly to the notion that it is now a great offense that prevails than Pruitt and Smart have. Looks like Smart may be figuring it out, but he was also playing with with house money as in terms of a stacked roster. CJP is fighting a bigger battle. CJP is going to either adjust, or forget about ever being a head coach again.

2) Do we rip it up again with another coaching search for someone who may/may not have the chops and will have to learn again as the new realities of the game slaps them in the face? Open transfer rules, politics (yes, this crap is making its way into CFB) and who knows what else. Or do we hope someone helps CJP realize what he needs to do to be a successful HC. Unfortunately, while I like CPF, I'm not sure he knows either, so CJP may not get much help there.

3) No one mistakes Ed Orgeron for a brilliant head coach. But one thing he did do, is listen to very good advice about what he's proficient at and what he is not. He then hired good people and let them do their jobs resulting in arguably the best team in college history. Of course, sitting on top of one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country that is locked in to his school does not hurt either. The point being, maybe the way forward is, instead of criticizing CJP (again, I'm not a fan of his at this point!), some smart boosters come to grips with this and use their acumen in management to guide him. Sounds like a long shot, but we all know how successful dysfunctional coaching searches every few years are and I'd be shocked if recruits are not subtly reminded of that by our rivals.

4) Bottom line: To this point, yes Pruitt has failed. the real question is has he learned anything from it? He may not have yet, or worse, does not want to learn, but after year three, we do not know. We don't. I think it takes another year will tell the tale. If he's learned, we are ahead. If not, well, I'm heading to Tyson-McGhee to track flights.

 

[Vols4us]

ESD is so dumb. Need to just have 1

Agree. Totally destroyed what was not broken.

 

[UTSuave’]

You had me at...

Buddy I hate to tell you this but

@Cactus Jack

 

[jdavis675]

I have serious doubts as to CJP's temperament to be a head coach at this stage, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Having finished his third year, CJP is a junior with regards to being a HC and has certainly taken some lumps. The game has changed. Alabama and UGA have stacked the defensive side of the ball with some of the best talent in the country and have looked inept against some great offenses. Saban adjusted far more quickly to the notion that it is now a great offense that prevails than Pruitt and Smart have. Looks like Smart may be figuring it out, but he was also playing with with house money as in terms of a stacked roster. CJP is fighting a bigger battle. CJP is going to either adjust, or forget about ever being a head coach again.

2) Do we rip it up again with another coaching search for someone who may/may not have the chops and will have to learn again as the new realities of the game slaps them in the face? Open transfer rules, politics (yes, this crap is making its way into CFB) and who knows what else. Or do we hope someone helps CJP realize what he needs to do to be a successful HC. Unfortunately, while I like CPF, I'm not sure he knows either, so CJP may not get much help there.

3) No one mistakes Ed Orgeron for a brilliant head coach. But one thing he did do, is listen to very good advice about what he's proficient at and what he is not. He then hired good people and let them do their jobs resulting in arguably the best team in college history. Of course, sitting on top of one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country that is locked in to his school does not hurt either. The point being, maybe the way forward is, instead of criticizing CJP (again, I'm not a fan of his at this point!), some smart boosters come to grips with this and use their acumen in management to guide him. Sounds like a long shot, but we all know how successful dysfunctional coaching searches every few years are and I'd be shocked if recruits are not subtly reminded of that by our rivals.

4) Bottom line: To this point, yes Pruitt has failed. the real question is has he learned anything from it? He may not have yet, or worse, does not want to learn, but after year three, we do not know. We don't. I think it takes another year will tell the tale. If he's learned, we are ahead. If not, well, I'm heading to Tyson-McGhee to track flights.

He absolutely has not learned anything. He is completing is 3rd full season and if the VSM and VQ are to be believed, he is on the verge of finding his 3rd OC and 3rd DC.

 

[05_never_again]

i don't really disagree with this.

i don't see the point in firing this "down the list guy" to find out we're hiring another "down the list guy". just keep the one we got for now....

which is why i keep saying the same things about this whole deal...firing JP is not the solution. it's not the answer. it's actually the easiest thing about this whole thing, and for all intents and purposes, you could argue that decision is basically already made, because NO BODY would argue with us for firing a guy with his body of work in 3 years and i'd love to find someone that could give us tangible reasons on WHY he has to be retained?

who are you getting? and you better have that answered before you even get started.....all the energy in this discussion is completely misplaced.

I love the discussion in this thread, but there seems to be an assumption that if Pruitt was axed we could get Freeze, or Sark, or Campbell, or someone like that. All of those would be fine upgrades. I don't think anybody would say otherwise.

Basically what I'm saying is that there will be celebration if Pruitt is canned, then that will turn to extreme anxiety once a search is launched and they have no clue what they're doing, then that'll turn to anger when John Doe, the RB coach from the University of Vermont, is our new HC.

Both John Doe and Pruitt's odds of turning the program around are bad, but honestly Pruitt's are better.

 

[Aesius]

He absolutely has not learned anything. He is completing is 3rd full season and if the VSM and VQ are to be believed, he is on the verge of finding his 3rd OC and 3rd DC.

He’s hoping Fulmer is dumb enough to give him another extension so he can make even more money when he gets fired.

 

[Rishvol]

Well boys, vilify me if you want but I'm pulling for TAaM. I hope they beat us like a drum and we get rid of this bozo. Our players deserve better. Preseason I couldn't imagine for a second that Trey Smith and Cade Mays draft stock would've dropped like it has. This coaching staff is doing a disservice to the players. UT will always be my team but I'm supporting the players not the coaches.

Vilify you? No. Call you a yella bellied two faced coward who should revoke their fandom by rooting for the other team for a slight probably of a coaching search? Yes.

 

[05_never_again]

Pruitt is going to have 1 more win after 3 seasons than Dooley. So yes he should be fired, unless you think Dooley should still be coaching here.

Napier is the absolute floor (higher than Chadwell) and would take this job the instant it was offered to him.

Keeping Pruitt means endorsing a 3 win season, which is the fewest wins since 1924. Do you want to stand behind that?

No it does not.

Also, you seem to have a lot of faith that the job would even be offered to Napier. You have more faith in our admin and booster than I do. These people tried to hire Greg Freaking Schiano just 3 years ago.

 

[Weezer]

I

ESD is so dumb. Need to just have 1

It's only dumb when you fail at it...

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Let me ask you this - do you still want Pruitt fired if it meant that once he's canned, the ensuing search would result in our admin and boosters pulling in about 5 different directions, and we end up with a Dooley-type candidate? Because the odds actually favor that. This Freeze, Campbell, etc. talk is fun and I'd be happy with any one of several names that we mention. However, do you actually think our admin would hire any of those guys?

I have zero, zero, faith in UT leadership to either go out and get a solid coach if Pruitt was fired, or conduct a search to identify one.

Quite honestly, if they have no plan with regards of what to do in the event they decide to fire Pruitt, they really should just keep him.

For the record...This is exactly how I feel. I have refrained for jumping into this "fahr errybody" argument the last few months very much, and I am not really going to now, but I do not want another off season circus that results in nothing more than another five years of the hope-doubt-hate-fire carousel...it is extremely stupid and counter-productive.

If they fire him, they better dang sure have somebody much better lined up, or it is nothing but a huge waste of freakin time and resources.

 

[jakez4ut]

I have serious doubts as to CJP's temperament to be a head coach at this stage, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Having finished his third year, CJP is a junior with regards to being a HC and has certainly taken some lumps. The game has changed. Alabama and UGA have stacked the defensive side of the ball with some of the best talent in the country and have looked inept against some great offenses. Saban adjusted far more quickly to the notion that it is now a great offense that prevails than Pruitt and Smart have. Looks like Smart may be figuring it out, but he was also playing with with house money as in terms of a stacked roster. CJP is fighting a bigger battle. CJP is going to either adjust, or forget about ever being a head coach again.

2) Do we rip it up again with another coaching search for someone who may/may not have the chops and will have to learn again as the new realities of the game slaps them in the face? Open transfer rules, politics (yes, this crap is making its way into CFB) and who knows what else. Or do we hope someone helps CJP realize what he needs to do to be a successful HC. Unfortunately, while I like CPF, I'm not sure he knows either, so CJP may not get much help there.

3) No one mistakes Ed Orgeron for a brilliant head coach. But one thing he did do, is listen to very good advice about what he's proficient at and what he is not. He then hired good people and let them do their jobs resulting in arguably the best team in college history. Of course, sitting on top of one of the most fertile recruiting areas of the country that is locked in to his school does not hurt either. The point being, maybe the way forward is, instead of criticizing CJP (again, I'm not a fan of his at this point!), some smart boosters come to grips with this and use their acumen in management to guide him. Sounds like a long shot, but we all know how successful dysfunctional coaching searches every few years are and I'd be shocked if recruits are not subtly reminded of that by our rivals.

4) Bottom line: To this point, yes Pruitt has failed. the real question is has he learned anything from it? He may not have yet, or worse, does not want to learn, but after year three, we do not know. We don't. I think it takes another year will tell the tale. If he's learned, we are ahead. If not, well, I'm heading to Tyson-McGhee to track flights.

i don't disagree with most of this.

but one thing i think i do disagree with is the not knowing.

we know what we know. he has mismanaged the personnel, specifically QB, and he has yet to put together a staff that "works". on paper, yeah, staff looks great. has not come to fruition on the field, or on the recruiting trail, at least not to the point where you can routinely rely on the type of classes we expected, and got the last two cycles. we lost on the trail this year because of the shortcomings pruitt has displayed this year....resulting in the poor season....

so in year three, you have an awful season and can't close the top tier guys you put a LOT of effort in to....

raises legitimate questions about the future...

now, you are correct...can he/did he/has he learned anything as a result, or is the self admitted hard head just 'is who he is'?

 

[MrVolton]

How would McGoogle give you hope? They've swung and missed on the last 3 McGoogles (Pruitt was well-known, so not quite a Google coach I guess, but he was totally unproven as an HC).

The only way out of this is to hire a guy who has had some success at the P5 level, and this admin is either too stupid, or unwilling, or unable to hire such a person.

When you are sure he is not the one, you’ve got to keep trying in hopes of finding the one. It is obvious that Pruitt is not the one.

 

[jdavis675]

No it does not.

It absolutely does. Do you love losing?

Pruitt gets a $400k raise and we would be paying him $4.2 million after winning 3 games in a season.

 

[jakez4ut]

I love the discussion in this thread, but there seems to be an assumption that if Pruitt was axed we could get Freeze, or Sark, or Campbell, or someone like that. All of those would be fine upgrades. I don't think anybody would say otherwise.

Basically what I'm saying is that there will be celebration if Pruitt is canned, then that will turn to extreme anxiety once a search is launched and they have no clue what they're doing, then that'll turn to anger when John Doe, the RB coach from the University of Vermont, is our new HC.

Both John Doe and Pruitt's odds of turning the program around are bad, but honestly Pruitt's are better.

but i do think freeze is legitimately in play. we just have to decide if that juice is worth the squeeze. agree on the rest.

 

[Orange Studs]

Thanks Ron for starting my day off with doom and gloom news and the possibility that CP will be back for another year of misery. What I don't get is the other news we hear about like the things CP has done to piss so many people off. Look at his inability to hire the right Assistant Coaches and get along with them. It is sad that it seems people have put everything on this game come Saturday. What about looking at the KY game, the Arky game, and getting blown out by our rivals. What about his stubborn attitude in playing JG when everyone but him knew he was a bad decision. His attitude to media and fans and some he has pissed off. But no its about Saturday. Just keep it close and respectful and you can keep your job. Boy has the bar hit rock bottom at UT. I guess our only hope is that the money people step up. As Atlvol stated he said Fulmer doesn't have a choice. Hope that is true cause of all people it looks like Fulmer is willing to screw his school over keeping a coach that just doesn't have it as a HC.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Imma play Wow instead of watch tomorrow. F it

 

[Kid Deezy]

Vilify you? No. Call you a yella bellied two faced coward who should revoke their fandom by rooting for the other team for a slight probably of a coaching search? Yes.

Ok buddy. Short term pain, long term benefits.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

"I wouldn't be surprised if CPF makes the support statement prior to Saturday.. just a guess on my part"- LWS

 

[Kingston Vol]

I love the discussion in this thread, but there seems to be an assumption that if Pruitt was axed we could get Freeze, or Sark, or Campbell, or someone like that. All of those would be fine upgrades. I don't think anybody would say otherwise.

Basically what I'm saying is that there will be celebration if Pruitt is canned, then that will turn to extreme anxiety once a search is launched and they have no clue what they're doing, then that'll turn to anger when John Doe, the RB coach from the University of Vermont, is our new HC.

Both John Doe and Pruitt's odds of turning the program around are bad, but honestly Pruitt's are better.

I have this fear myself, but my stance has always been once you know someone isn't the right fit, you replace them.

Are we gonna **** this up and hire Jeff Monken? Maybe! But you have to make the first step before stumbling on the second.

 

[greazy1722]

@greazy1722 im no genius but if I was a betting man your nephew ends up at Arkansas State amirite?

@cHiZzLeVOL Lol not a bad guess, but I'm gonna lie he got some damn good options. All his options are from passing schools. One of the teams have a Top 5 offense in college. We will see what happens

 

[05_never_again]

It absolutely does. Do you love losing?

Pruitt gets a $400k raise and we would be paying him $4.2 million after winning 3 games in a season.

I can't wait to see your thoughts when we hire North Dakota State's special team coach to a 5-year, $25M deal with a large, guaranteed buyout after axing Pruitt with no plan.

Y'all like to think of yourselves as negative and cynical, but you actually have faith in the admin to conduct a search. I don't.

 

[UTgrad2015]

Are we still Choosing Joy this morning?

 

[Ron Swanson]

Well boys, vilify me if you want but I'm pulling for TAaM. I hope they beat us like a drum and we get rid of this bozo. Our players deserve better. Preseason I couldn't imagine for a second that Trey Smith and Cade Mays draft stock would've dropped like it has. This coaching staff is doing a disservice to the players. UT will always be my team but I'm supporting the players not the coaches.

Exactly where I am as well. The player development has been awful. The roster management has been worse. And when we lose it’s a blowout. In year 3.

I’m sorry but there’s absolutely no reason to keep him if we’re basing that decision on job performance. Not if a top tier winning football program is the goal, anyway. But if the goal is to be a bottom feeder in the SEC, sure, keep Pruitt for another couple years or more.

 

[VolNRaleighNC]

Prepare for it.

 

[05_never_again]

I have this fear myself, but my stance has always been once you know someone isn't the right fit, you replace them.

Are we gonna **** this up and hire Jeff Monken? Maybe! But you have to make the first step before stumbling on the second.

Oh, the f-ups that our admin is capable of would result in a coach that is far worse than Jeff Monken.

Yes, when you know someone isn't the right fit you replace them. But you identify someone, then fire them. I think we're going to fire them, then look for the replacement, and there will be 500 different ideas from boosters who want to "win" and replace him with their guy.