Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#105,804
#105,804
Vols410 said:
Just a couple quick thoughts on Elliott...

His offenses actually have outperformed the talent level at Clemson. We've seen them land a couple top 5 classes here recently, but they haven't had Bama/Georgia level talent as a whole up until now. Sure the offenses have benefited from having fantastic QBs along the way, but they were elite with Kelly Bryant at the spot too.

Here's a summary of year-by-year efficiency rankings from ESPN, together with 247 talent composite numbers. Remember, these are adjusted for pace/SOS, so you can remove those factors from the calculation.

View attachment 342870

A couple quick notes here:
1. Check out the overall efficiency numbers here. It's rare to see overall and offense consistently so high together, because often highly-efficient offenses score quickly, putting more strain on the defense. This is the hallmark of a gimmicky, pace-dependent, offense. It's difficult to pair a solid defense with it, which is how you get the Big XII...

For the record, Kiffin's offenses at Alabama accomplished this as well, but to a much lower degree. While the team's overall metrics were top 5 from 2014-2016, only 2014 featured a top 15 offense, and they declined each year, winding up at 24 in 2016. Kiffin's offenses at FAU / Mississippi seem more Big 12-ish, culminating in a 5th offense / 112th defense split that is pretty horrifying.

I think this says a lot about a OC's ability to actually scheme in ways other than quickening the pace. That was the task for Kiffin at 'Bama, and he did well, but the offensive efficiency at Clemson since Elliott has been pretty exceptional.

2. Efficiency has become remarkably better and more consistent since moving from Morris to Elliott as the primary play-caller, and he is the primary play-caller, and has been since 2015.

3. Elliott has been pursued for HC and NFL jobs at a different level than Pruitt. While both had/have impressive resumes as coordinators, that speaks to something that reputable organizations see in Elliott that makes them think he's qualified for being more than a coordinator, something other programs certainly see in Pruitt. If Danny White thinks this as well, given his track record I'd feel pretty confident there's something to that.

All-in-all, thanks for sticking it out with another nerd post, it's been a while since I've done one of these. I'd also rather have an accomplished head coach that's overperformed with less (i.e. Campbell for sure...) but I don't see anything here that makes me think Elliott is re-treading the Pruitt road at all.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. Post more.
 
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#105,808
#105,808
I have a hard time believing we had the attitude that we were going to target our top AD target, pursue him aggressively and refuse to take no for an answer and make him the highest paid AD in SEC only to turn around and higher a nobody. I would expect we take the same attitude into the HC search and make it incredibly hard for the top target to say no.
 
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#105,809
#105,809
Vols410 said:
Just a couple quick thoughts on Elliott...

His offenses actually have outperformed the talent level at Clemson. We've seen them land a couple top 5 classes here recently, but they haven't had Bama/Georgia level talent as a whole up until now. Sure the offenses have benefited from having fantastic QBs along the way, but they were elite with Kelly Bryant at the spot too.

Here's a summary of year-by-year efficiency rankings from ESPN, together with 247 talent composite numbers. Remember, these are adjusted for pace/SOS, so you can remove those factors from the calculation.

View attachment 342870

A couple quick notes here:
1. Check out the overall efficiency numbers here. It's rare to see overall and offense consistently so high together, because often highly-efficient offenses score quickly, putting more strain on the defense. This is the hallmark of a gimmicky, pace-dependent, offense. It's difficult to pair a solid defense with it, which is how you get the Big XII...

For the record, Kiffin's offenses at Alabama accomplished this as well, but to a much lower degree. While the team's overall metrics were top 5 from 2014-2016, only 2014 featured a top 15 offense, and they declined each year, winding up at 24 in 2016. Kiffin's offenses at FAU / Mississippi seem more Big 12-ish, culminating in a 5th offense / 112th defense split that is pretty horrifying.

I think this says a lot about a OC's ability to actually scheme in ways other than quickening the pace. That was the task for Kiffin at 'Bama, and he did well, but the offensive efficiency at Clemson since Elliott has been pretty exceptional.

2. Efficiency has become remarkably better and more consistent since moving from Morris to Elliott as the primary play-caller, and he is the primary play-caller, and has been since 2015.

3. Elliott has been pursued for HC and NFL jobs at a different level than Pruitt. While both had/have impressive resumes as coordinators, that speaks to something that reputable organizations see in Elliott that makes them think he's qualified for being more than a coordinator, something other programs certainly see in Pruitt. If Danny White thinks this as well, given his track record I'd feel pretty confident there's something to that.

All-in-all, thanks for sticking it out with another nerd post, it's been a while since I've done one of these. I'd also rather have an accomplished head coach that's overperformed with less (i.e. Campbell for sure...) but I don't see anything here that makes me think Elliott is re-treading the Pruitt road at all.
Click to expand...

Hes only been the OC one year. He was a Co-OC the other years. Can't really attribute those previous years to just him. Also, he was reported to have 1 OC interview in the NFL for the dolphins. Can't find any for sure interview other than that. His name had been thrown around, but no substance.
 
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#105,815
#105,815
I'm surprised the people pro-Elliot have not brought up the 2017 Clemson team as a counter-argument that it's easy to look good with generational QBs -

Their 2017 offense averaged 430 yards and 33.3 points per game, including nine games of scoring 30+. The offense didn't really have talent that was out of this world either.

Their offensive line-up:

QB: Kelly Bryant - serviceable/mediocre - was further proven by average play at Mizzou.
RB: True Fr Travis Etienne and Tavien Feaster (was ho-hum at SoCar)
WR: Hunter Renfroe, Deon Cain, Ray-Ray McCloud
TE: Milan Richard
OL: Mitch Hyatt, Taylor Hearn, Justin Falcinelli, Tyrone Crowder (all undrafted), and Treymane Anchrum (7th round)

I mean, we currently have more talent on our offense than this.

That being said, I like Elliot and would fully support him, but agreed that it's a massive risk and don't know if someone without HC experience is what we need right now. ultimately, I do not think we hire him unless we swing and miss alot.

Anyway, just another viewpoint when looking at Elliot that isn't being taken into consideration.
 
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#105,816
#105,816
BigSteve09 said:
I think if you hadn't seen Sark as a HC previously, you would assume he was the greatest OC of all time with the clinic he put on in the championship game with the most elite talent. Just keeping things in perspective.
Click to expand...

I wanted Sark because he had been a college OC and I thought he did a good job at Washington under the circumstances.
 
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#105,819
#105,819
Nashvegas31 said:
I have a hard time believing we had the attitude that we were going to target our top AD target, pursue him aggressively and refuse to take no for an answer and make him the highest paid AD in SEC only to turn around and higher a nobody. I would expect we take the same attitude into the HC search and make it incredibly hard for the top target to say no.
Click to expand...
1611422899961.gif
 
#105,821
#105,821
johnfnkelly said:
Somebody give me a modern example of a coordinator who walked into a similar situation as us and brought them back into a national contender.
Click to expand...

Only one that comes to mind is bob stoops to oklahoma. It was a dumpster fire and he righted that ship in two years.

My dad is an OU alum, and he is where we are now. Total apathy and barely watched them. In comes Bob and he rarely missed a game from them on.
 
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#105,823
#105,823
Bigworm87 said:
Hes only been the OC one year. He was a Co-OC the other years. Can't really attribute those previous years to just him. Also, he was reported to have 1 OC interview in the NFL for the dolphins. Can't find any for sure interview other than that. His name had been thrown around, but no substance.
Click to expand...
From a 2015 Clemson article regarding calling plays... Also to be clear I know he still had a Co-OC role, so my aim here isn't to argue with you. Just pre-emptively striking the idea I've seen posed here that he's only called plays for a year.
Without further ado, let me put some of these questions and fears to rest: Tony Elliott calls all plays for the Clemson offense. How do I know that? When the two were announced as co-coordinators, Dabo, Scott, and Elliott all said as much in very plain language. On Sunday, Dec. 7th, just days after making the announcement that Scott and Elliott would be co-coordinators, Dabo announced that Tony Elliott would be calling plays. A few days later, in a joint press conference, Elliott discussed how he plans on calling the plays and managing the game. Scott went on to joke that he proposed they divide the play calling duties so that he could call first and second downs and Elliott could call third and fourth downs, but ends by saying that, "We figured this [Tony calling plays] was probably the best way." Tony Elliott was announced as the play caller almost immediately by Dabo. Tony and Jeff have both, consistently, confirmed that Elliott is the one calling the plays. There has been nothing said by anyone directly associated with Clemson to the contrary, so we have every reason to believe that Tony Elliott is the one calling plays for the Clemson Tiger offense.
Click to expand...
 
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