Recruiting Forum Football Talk V

[625 Gibbs Hall]

Is that suppose to be something you brag about?

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

i wouldn't get excited or anxious about the heisman. talk about prisoner of the moment........

if you really wanted to give it to the best player in football....the truth is it's probably not any of the guys getting the most run. it's a popularity contest and i think when it's all said and done, they'll do what's easiest and that's give it to the OSU or USC qb, cause, why not?

drake maye at UNC has had a better year than pretty much any of these QB's.

And even if I was talking about the Heisman...Drake Maye has not faced two of the most talented defenses (UGA-Bama), one just below those two (LSU) and another very solid defense (UK)...so..

 

[Vol464]

Didn't even try. SMDH.

Guess he never heard of telemedicine.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Oh, sh**.

Their resume looks pretty similar to ours...ready to be let down.

How is their resume better than ours? Who else is 2-1 against three CURRENT top 10 teams?

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Maybe for that year, but...

View attachment 512339



The committee wants the traditional powers with the monstrous fanbases in there.



If I were a TCU fan, I'd be Battered Frog Syndrome about everyone in CFB media saying "College Football is better when Tennessee is good" for the last 20 years.

All these schools should be screaming for the playoffs to go to at least 12 teams as soon as possible. It would be a blast to watch this year.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

no question about that. I just don't want to play OSU at all.

I don't either....I would rather deal with the devil we know again...at least we know what UGA is going to do, and how to attack them next time.

 

[jakez4ut]

And even if I was talking about the Heisman...Drake Maye has not faced two of the most talented defenses (UGA-Bama), one just below those two (LSU) and another very solid defense (UK)...so..

i didn't say he did, i just said he's have a better year, compared to other QB's. and he is.

objectively, he's having a fantastic season, better than any other.

subjectively, it's not comparable to the schedules UNC and TN have. nor is it comparing the schedules of OSU or TN. or USCw and TN.

and that's the problem. this is a subjective award, and because of that, i don't see any chance HH has at getting it. deserve it? hell yeah. should get it? yeah.

but that would require voters to take in the full context of the impact this season, and Hooker's impact on that, has had for this program in general, not just in the context of a single football season.

and that's just not gonna happen.

 

[drylo]

I understand not wanting to actively suck up to recruits’ (or players’) parents on here, etc., but can we all agree to just not actively engage in antagonistic confrontations with them? Like most internet arguments, even if you’re correct and they are very clearly in the wrong, there is simply nothing to be gained. There’s just no point.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Ugh. Watching these 2 plays and knowing that throughout the year these were pitch and catch TDs sucks. I wish I had access to an All22 type film so I could really take a look at the WRs days vs UGA DBs.

It can't be...according to every talking head in the world we had no chance...

Just those two and it's a tie ballgame..

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Kirby's comments about "no layups" (like that Hyatt almost-TD) meant that he was encouraging his DBs to hold the WRs. At worst they get a 15 yard penalty, as opposed to surrendering a big play/TD. Once Tennessee gets in the red zone, they don't have to worry about holding receivers because they can keep everything more contained in a limited space.

It's not a bad plan, Purdue kind of did the same thing against us in the MCB.

The issue is that Hendon didn't throw the ball at the recievers that were being held/tackled/mugged..whatever you want to call it...so he didn't force the refs to make the calls.

Instead of sacks we would have been getting first downs.

Kirby flat out admitted he told his guys to commit DPI and DH...."we were going to foul to keep from giving up layups"

 

[mrmax86]

How is their resume better than ours? Who else is 2-1 against three CURRENT top 10 teams?

TCU's resume the 2014 season is similar to ours this year.

 

[BigSteve09]

from the GoVols247 pod

Wes: I'm not shocked but I am disappointed. I don't agree with what they've done.

Ben: It doesn't make sense. Obviously nothing against TCU. I think TCU is deserving of the 4th spot and Oregon is deserving of the 6th spot. But Tennessee is better than either team and has a better resume than both. And for all the people that are supposed to know, and supposed to do this for a living, and spend all this time on this. They continue putting out reasons that they rank the teams this way that don't make sense. The criteria and reasoning change week to week. No greater example than this - they cited SIX wins for TCU against teams that are .500 or better. When Tennessee's overall opponent record is 50-31, the best in the country, or the best in the top 20 teams. TCU's? 41-40. Not really sure why they would cite that. Tennessee has 3 wins over teams in the playoff rankings. Tennessee is even better by this made up criteria. He said TCU has been better overall in the second half of the season A WEEK AFTER he dinged TCU for how they have performed in the FIRST HALF of the season. Last Tuesday he diminished TCU, with all these holes they've dug and had to come from behind to win. Just a week later he's all about what TCU has done in the 2nd half of the season. He was asked why they're ahead of Tennessee, and he cited what the TCU QB has done, which is really weird considering who Tennessee's QB is. When you look at it, everything I"m complaining about has nothing to do with TCU, but with the logic. Rece Davis is supposed to be this guy that knows everything better than everyone, and his logic. All these guys are supposed to know the sport better than everyone and their logic makes no sense.

Ryan: I'm not as worried about this. What I would say to the Tennessee fans is "welcome to the conversation you've been missing out on for the last 10 years." The logic DOES tend to change one week to the next. Tennessee fans have just been joyfully ignorant of that because they haven't had to worry about it for 8 years. You don't know what these guys will say from one week to the next. They are always trying to REVERSE ENGINEER the OUTCOME they want. Last week they were setting it up for Bama to make the playoff and possibly be ranked high, so they're ahead of TCU. This week, the Tennessee team that had the #1 overall resume last week, is not ranked ahead of TCU the way that Alabama was last week. The inconsistency is problematic. They probably did this to avoid an SEC-bias controversy. The committee is planning on getting bailed out by TCU losing at some point. I think they're reverse engineering the outcome, so it make sense in early December. Which has been the problem with this committee from day one. It's a subjective process. Looking back, I can't figure out why Alabama was ahead of TCU last week. But in a vacuum, these rankings this week are fine. Let's see if TCU can earn their way in there. I don't know that they will, but if they go undefeated they might deserve a shot. I think Tennessee is in a good spot, with a manageable path. I don't think the committee wanted to deal with the blowback. Style points are starting to matter.

Wes: [against Georgia] Tennessee had the ball with 5 minutes left and the opportunity to make it a one score game. That is not an absolute blowout. It is not. It is not a blowout.

Ryan: it is not what happened to Oregon.

Wes: They are not the same thing AT ALL.

Ryan: Rece Davis, I love him, but I thought that was a BAFFLING take.

Wes: And people agreed with him! It was [grrr]

Ryan: you've got to think that's going to start the discussion and framing. Is there a situation where Tennessee gets backdoored out of the playoff? I think we're starting to hear the foundation of that argument and that case.

Wes: YEs, yes, yes, yes. I have 2 major complaints. They've been alluded to. If you were to say last week that TCU's resume was not as good as Alabama, then TCU rallies to get a win over Texas Tech at home. And THAT GAME makes their resume better than Tennessee's this week? That's ludicrous. There's not rationale there. It's ridiculous. It is so fundamentally dishonest that it is a problem. ANd now we have this conversation, that anything having to do with the Oregon-Georgia game, which by the way was NOT in Athens. That's not the same thing in Atlanta. It is not the same as on campus. We've covered neutral site games, even with Tennessee representing the majority of the fans, it's still not the same. And to sit there with a straight face and say that Tennessee-Georgia and Oregon-Georgia were both one-sided, and a one-sided game is a one-sided game... Did they not watch the Tennessee-Florida game? Because we did. The end of the Tennessee-Georgia game could have been very similar to the Tennessee-Florida game. If Tennessee scores and gets an onside. You can't tell me that a 40 whatever to 3 game is even REMOTELY similar to Tennessee losing to Georgia. It is a STUPID thought.

Ryan: I can understand saying it was a dominant performance, ok maybe. but to call it the same thing as getting blown out like oregon did...

Wes: I can't support that. Here's the reason that matters. Now Oregon has the chance to impress the committee, and Tennessee does not. Unless Georgia loses twice and Tennessee gets to play in the SEC Championship. Oregon and TCU still have opportunities to impress people. I don't know how this is a hard concept for people to understand. Who are the four best teams with the best resumes? And now you're flirting with putting Oregon in front of Tennessee.

Ryan: we still have games to play. this will sort itself out. but i do worry about oregon. and what about LSU?

Wes: another stupid stupid argument

Ryan: if they win the SEC, they are starting to build that argument for them

Ben: I disagree with the logic that there's a month left and it will all get sorted out. That's the difference between being ranked 4 and 5. I don't think the logic applies that simply for Tennessee - they play terrible teams. If Tennessee was 4 in the rankings then ok, they win out and they're in. They wouldn't move Tennessee for winning out. Now that they're number 5, they have to win out AND get help. I realize there's a month left, but I see a path where Tennessee can get left out because they don't have an opportunity to make a statement and Oregon and TCU do. If Oregon runs the table, they're getting in over Tennessee because Tennessee doesn't have another chance for a statement win. It is critical, quite frankly, that Tennessee was 5 instead of 4. It doesn't make sense. It seems like the committee is saying TCU is undefeated, Tennessee is not. This month really shows how much the CFP needs expansion. TCU's resume is not better than Tennessee's. Just because Tennessee lost to the number one team in the nation on the road, you don't fall from 1 to 5.

Wes: they got embarrassed last week when they put TCU where they did and now they're making up for it. I think it's dumb and spineless.

Ryan: What happens if LSU runs the table and is the 2 loss SEC champion?

Wes: the argument is already being set up for them to be in over tennessee if that happens. I COMPLETELY disagree with that argument. Tennessee beat LSU by 27 points at LSU. If they take LSU over Tennessee it would be horrible.

Ryan: they're setting it up where that discussion is a real possibility with the most recent rankings. I don't see a case for 2 loss LSU making the playoff. This is what I'm worried about if I'm a Tennessee fan. The only team that made it into the playoff without winning their division is the 2017 Alabama Crimson Tide, which made it in and won it all. You could certainly make the case that they deserved that spot, but you could also make the case that that was a unique case. So now the committee will have to ask is this Tennessee team as unique and special as that 2017 Alabama team?

Wes: Tennessee's ONLY LOSS is on the road to the NUMBER ONE DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPION. I'm pretty sure that that's still a top 4 resume.

Ryan: I'm just saying it may end up behing what the debate is. So now you really do need some things to happen. I feel there will be more infuriating weeks ahead for Tennessee. Oregon has a chance to improve. TCU is already in over Tennessee if they win out according to the rankings now. LSU has a chance to improve. Now Tennessee needs a lot of things to happen outside of their control.

Ben: Their only loss is to the number one team in their house, the team that's probably going to win the national championship. So what is going on if teams are going to get in if they don't have the better resume?

Ryan: it's all subjective... I do disagree that Tennessee CAN STILL impress. Georgia struggled with Missouri for instance. If Tennessee comes out and DOMINATES their opponents. Not give up 17 points, put up a lot of points. Suddenly the resume starts looking better. Tennessee CAN strengthen their case. Maybe not as much as the others, but they can put some style points up. This will be an interesting debate though

Wes: there's something about this that does not sit fundamentally well with me. It's worth mentioning though. Most years, by the time the final 4 teams are set, there's been very few times that we've said "woah this is TOTALLY wrong." [mentions 2020 TAMU, 2017 PSU] Most of the time the 4 teams that get in. If not clear cut, it's at least supportable. Sometimes all of this chaos does end up right where it's stupposed to be .

 

[mrmax86]

They are always trying to REVERSE ENGINEER the OUTCOME they want. Last week they were setting it up for Bama to make the playoff and possibly be ranked high, so they're ahead of TCU. This week, the Tennessee team that had the #1 overall resume last week, is not ranked ahead of TCU the way that Alabama was last week. The inconsistency is problematic.

TL;DR, but I did listen to that podcast this morning. They covered a LOT of ground and I think it's worth a listen. The quoted portion of @BigSteve09's post is my biggest takeaway. The committee is forming a narrative...

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

TL;DR, but I did listen to that podcast this morning. They covered a LOT of ground and I think it's worth a listen.

Yeah they broke down pretty much everything on this subject.

Got me fired up I tell ya!

 

[peaygolf]

from the GoVols247 pod

Wes: I'm not shocked but I am disappointed. I don't agree with what they've done.

Ben: It doesn't make sense. Obviously nothing against TCU. I think TCU is deserving of the 4th spot and Oregon is deserving of the 6th spot. But Tennessee is better than either team and has a better resume than both. And for all the people that are supposed to know, and supposed to do this for a living, and spend all this time on this. They continue putting out reasons that they rank the teams this way that don't make sense. The criteria and reasoning change week to week. No greater example than this - they cited SIX wins for TCU against teams that are .500 or better. When Tennessee's overall opponent record is 50-31, the best in the country, or the best in the top 20 teams. TCU's? 41-40. Not really sure why they would cite that. Tennessee has 3 wins over teams in the playoff rankings. Tennessee is even better by this made up criteria. He said TCU has been better overall in the second half of the season A WEEK AFTER he dinged TCU for how they have performed in the FIRST HALF of the season. Last Tuesday he diminished TCU, with all these holes they've dug and had to come from behind to win. Just a week later he's all about what TCU has done in the 2nd half of the season. He was asked why they're ahead of Tennessee, and he cited what the TCU QB has done, which is really weird considering who Tennessee's QB is. When you look at it, everything I"m complaining about has nothing to do with TCU, but with the logic. Rece Davis is supposed to be this guy that knows everything better than everyone, and his logic. All these guys are supposed to know the sport better than everyone and their logic makes no sense.

Ryan: I'm not as worried about this. What I would say to the Tennessee fans is "welcome to the conversation you've been missing out on for the last 10 years." The logic DOES tend to change one week to the next. Tennessee fans have just been joyfully ignorant of that because they haven't had to worry about it for 8 years. You don't know what these guys will say from one week to the next. They are always trying to REVERSE ENGINEER the OUTCOME they want. Last week they were setting it up for Bama to make the playoff and possibly be ranked high, so they're ahead of TCU. This week, the Tennessee team that had the #1 overall resume last week, is not ranked ahead of TCU the way that Alabama was last week. The inconsistency is problematic. They probably did this to avoid an SEC-bias controversy. The committee is planning on getting bailed out by TCU losing at some point. I think they're reverse engineering the outcome, so it make sense in early December. Which has been the problem with this committee from day one. It's a subjective process. Looking back, I can't figure out why Alabama was ahead of TCU last week. But in a vacuum, these rankings this week are fine. Let's see if TCU can earn their way in there. I don't know that they will, but if they go undefeated they might deserve a shot. I think Tennessee is in a good spot, with a manageable path. I don't think the committee wanted to deal with the blowback. Style points are starting to matter.

Wes: [against Georgia] Tennessee had the ball with 5 minutes left and the opportunity to make it a one score game. That is not an absolute blowout. It is not. It is not a blowout.

Ryan: it is not what happened to Oregon.

Wes: They are not the same thing AT ALL.

Ryan: Rece Davis, I love him, but I thought that was a BAFFLING take.

Wes: And people agreed with him! It was [grrr]

Ryan: you've got to think that's going to start the discussion and framing. Is there a situation where Tennessee gets backdoored out of the playoff? I think we're starting to hear the foundation of that argument and that case.

Wes: YEs, yes, yes, yes. I have 2 major complaints. They've been alluded to. If you were to say last week that TCU's resume was not as good as Alabama, then TCU rallies to get a win over Texas Tech at home. And THAT GAME makes their resume better than Tennessee's this week? That's ludicrous. There's not rationale there. It's ridiculous. It is so fundamentally dishonest that it is a problem. ANd now we have this conversation, that anything having to do with the Oregon-Georgia game, which by the way was NOT in Athens. That's not the same thing in Atlanta. It is not the same as on campus. We've covered neutral site games, even with Tennessee representing the majority of the fans, it's still not the same. And to sit there with a straight face and say that Tennessee-Georgia and Oregon-Georgia were both one-sided, and a one-sided game is a one-sided game... Did they not watch the Tennessee-Florida game? Because we did. The end of the Tennessee-Georgia game could have been very similar to the Tennessee-Florida game. If Tennessee scores and gets an onside. You can't tell me that a 40 whatever to 3 game is even REMOTELY similar to Tennessee losing to Georgia. It is a STUPID thought.

Ryan: I can understand saying it was a dominant performance, ok maybe. but to call it the same thing as getting blown out like oregon did...

Wes: I can't support that. Here's the reason that matters. Now Oregon has the chance to impress the committee, and Tennessee does not. Unless Georgia loses twice and Tennessee gets to play in the SEC Championship. Oregon and TCU still have opportunities to impress people. I don't know how this is a hard concept for people to understand. Who are the four best teams with the best resumes? And now you're flirting with putting Oregon in front of Tennessee.

Ryan: we still have games to play. this will sort itself out. but i do worry about oregon. and what about LSU?

Wes: another stupid stupid argument

Ryan: if they win the SEC, they are starting to build that argument for them

Ben: I disagree with the logic that there's a month left and it will all get sorted out. That's the difference between being ranked 4 and 5. I don't think the logic applies that simply for Tennessee - they play terrible teams. If Tennessee was 4 in the rankings then ok, they win out and they're in. They wouldn't move Tennessee for winning out. Now that they're number 5, they have to win out AND get help. I realize there's a month left, but I see a path where Tennessee can get left out because they don't have an opportunity to make a statement and Oregon and TCU do. If Oregon runs the table, they're getting in over Tennessee because Tennessee doesn't have another chance for a statement win. It is critical, quite frankly, that Tennessee was 5 instead of 4. It doesn't make sense. It seems like the committee is saying TCU is undefeated, Tennessee is not. This month really shows how much the CFP needs expansion. TCU's resume is not better than Tennessee's. Just because Tennessee lost to the number one team in the nation on the road, you don't fall from 1 to 5.

Wes: they got embarrassed last week when they put TCU where they did and now they're making up for it. I think it's dumb and spineless.

Take care of business the next 3 weeks, and it don’t matter.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

*whispers* The layup opportunities were still there.. we just missed them.

It really was a perfect storm for UGA. They played probably the best, maybe 2nd best, they have all year and we played our worst. Not trying to discredit their defense because they obviously are talented and played very well, just pointing out that even with that, we still had our chances. We just uncharacteristically didn’t take advantage.

The crowd noise put the OL on it's heels...which was a huge advantage for a very aggressive-extremely talented defense.

Part of the growing process...these boys were not supposed to be in huge games on the road late in the season against one of the 3 most talented teams (by far) in CFB.

Looking back on that, how were these guys supposed to be prepared for something like that? We have not been in a game like that for 15 years...I know Death Valley should have been tough, but it wasn't, and it wasn't from the jump...heck it sounded like 30% of the crowd were Vols.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

And both of those Hooker was getting hit right after release. The pressure definitely did it's job.

And he has thrown beautiful passes under heavy pressure before.

 

[BigSteve09]

TL;DR, but I did listen to that podcast this morning. They covered a LOT of ground and I think it's worth a listen. The quoted portion of @BigSteve09's post is my biggest takeaway. The committee is forming a narrative...

Yeah they broke down pretty much everything on this subject.

Got me fired up I tell ya!

I wanted to share the pod here so we could all talk about it but they don't put their pods on YouTube or anything like that.

I mostly went through the trouble of typing it all out because I caught myself getting McGill-level fired up. So I said, "McGill needs to hear/read this"

 

[engineerVOL]

I kind of like having to fight and claw to get back into the playoffs rather than be a sitting duck. And really we have an extremely high likelihood of getting in. It’s a perfect spot for us.

 

[Chuckie]

I'm sure someone has said this already, but what sticks in my craw about last night is that I have no problem with being ranked #5. 4 undefeated teams...rank them 1-4 based on whatever criteria is being used.

But to then get on national TV and say that TCU is ranked ahead us because of their number of wins over teams with a record of .500 or better is utter bullsh!t.

Rank us #5...no problem. Use dumba$$ reasons to justify it...go to hell.

 

[KptVFL]

I understand not wanting to actively suck up to recruits’ (or players’) parents on here, etc., but can we all agree to just not actively engage in antagonistic confrontations with them? Like most internet arguments, even if you’re correct and they are very clearly in the wrong, there is simply nothing to be gained. There’s just no point.

View attachment 512390

No, you're wrong and I'm here to let you know why!

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Some are saying we can't improve our resume from here on out. That's not true.

We definitely need TCU and Oregon to lose and we just win out.

However, if we are putting 50+ on everyone it's gonna help us.

Wins over a 10-3 SEC west champ LSU and 10-2 Alabama are going to look even better by then than they do now.

Florida, Kentucky, and Pitt can still all finish 8-4 and would likely all be ranked.

On top of all that, USCjr, Mizzou and Ball State could all be bowl eligible.

Almost no one is going to have a resume that good.

 

[BigSteve09]

Some are saying we can't improve our resume from here on out. That's not true.

We definitely need TCU and Oregon to lose and we just win out.

However, if we are putting 50+ on everyone it's gonna help us.

Wins over a 10-3 SEC west champ LSU and 10-2 Alabama are going to look even better by then than they do now.

Florida, Kentucky, and Pitt can still all finish 8-4 and would likely all be ranked.

On top of all that, USCjr, Mizzou and Ball State could all be bowl eligible.

Almost no one is going to have a resume that good.

at least we'll have a rooting interest in many games on a weekly basis lol

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Playoffs suck. Diminishes all the bowls and the tradition of college football.
SECC should always play in the Sugar Bowl


jmo

It should be set up differently. 8 team playoff, with the loser of 1st round games going on to play in a New Year 6 bowl against an at-large team.

I'm saying that the playoff games, outside of the National Title game, shouldn't be considered bowl games. Instead, just an extension of the season by 1 game and used to qualify a team for particular bowls. Even if the 1st rd losers dont play an at-large team, they should play each other in a bowl game after the playoffs.

 

[mrmax86]

Ugh. Watching these 2 plays and knowing that throughout the year these were pitch and catch TDs sucks. I wish I had access to an All22 type film so I could really take a look at the WRs days vs UGA DBs.

I wish it was possible to get statistics for Hookers overthrows vs targets.

Does he throw as if Hyatt's running every route? Obviously, the other receivers aren't as fast as Hyatt. Just curious.