Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

[volinbama256]

So, what am I missing? An Alabama football player did something that isn't against the law, that many of us have done several times (i.e. taken someone their gun). Even the DA has said it wasn't against the law and there's nothing to charge.

But because someone besides the Bama player made the decision after the fact to kill someone with the gun, Bama should sit the player and possibly burn him at the stake?

Is there more to this, or is it just irrational Bama hate that wants to see a young man's future forever ruined?

You are missing a LOT

 

[Orange_Crush]

You’ve taken a gun to someone in the middle of the night at a club where they’ve been drinking then blocked a road several times?

Totally normal and not suspicious behavior.

No. I haven't.

I was asking legitimate questions. I hadn't heard about him blocking exit with his car. That sounds like he's an accessory to the murder.

 

[SSVol]

Are we talking in la la made up land or reality?

Reality is he has neither been found guilty, nor even charged with such a thing...

What is the point in even discussing these things if we are just making things up? Maybe we could at least discuss this with actual evidence and the actual realities present at this time.

You are a funny one. You talk about the evils of pulling a gun to defend yourself, and then you act like loaning a guy a gun to kill a young lady is no big deal.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

Trotz coming back to Nashville as the Preds General Manager makes for a great story. Hopefully he can interject some change and a new coach. I wasn’t happy with the Lavi firing (did way more in his 5 years than any stretch in Preds history) and after hiring a guy in Hynes with a losing record only solidified that bad feeling. Hopefully Trotz hires someone good

Yeah, Hynes is trash. Was never a good hire or even close to it. Poile had a really good career and a really good stretch here, all around that Stanley Cup Finals run, but the last few years haven’t been great. Hopefully Trotz can be good but he will have to learn on the job quick. Luckily he knows Nashville well so it’s an ideal spot for him to get his first GM gig.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Any regular person would be charged with accessory to murder.

Perhaps. I'm asking questions about which part and why. I haven't followed this as I've been out of country. All I've heard is that a friend texted him asking him to bring him his gun. He did so. The DA said there is no broken law. I didn't see anything about him knowing the request was tied to an intent to murder someone with the gun.

From that perspective, it's a dangerous place to write law that expects a person to predict the future.

If he indeed blocked the victims in with his car, then it sounds like he should be indicted as an accomplice. If that is indded fact, are we just seeing the DA covering for Alabama basketball?

 

[InVOLuntary]

You are a funny one. You talk about the evils of pulling a gun to defend yourself, and then you act like loaning a guy a gun to kill a young lady is no big deal.

I'm sure he's for "sensible" gun control laws.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Perhaps. I'm asking questions about which part and why. I haven't followed this as I've been out of country. All I've heard is that a friend texted him asking him to bring him his gun. He did so. The DA said there is no broken law. I didn't see anything about him knowing the request was tied to an intent to murder someone with the gun.

From that perspective, it's a dangerous place to write law that expects a person to predict the future.

If he indeed blocked the victims in with his car, then it sounds like he should be indicted as an accomplice. If that is indded fact, are we just seeing the DA covering for Alabama basketball?

I guess it depends on how Millers texts are interpreted. But why else when deliever the gun would he tell Miles and the other guy there is one in the chamber?
But yes we are, there is no doubt in my mind Tuscaloosa has probably covered up a lot for Bama athletics, just like what happened in Gainesville with a certain TE. Money talks.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I guess it depends on how Millers texts are interpreted. But why else when deliever the gun would he tell Miles and the other guy there is one in the chamber?
But yes we are, there is no doubt in my mind Tuscaloosa has probably covered up a lot for Bama athletics, just like what happened in Gainesville with a certain TE. Money talks.

Don't forget the bama players that were caught in Louisiana with guns in their cars. Charges dropped, never missed a down.

 

[Nuctech777]

Point taken. The pat down pregame was definitely tone deaf.

Did the friend text him, "Bring me my gun. I'm going to cap someone's ***!"? My brother left his gun in my car before. I got a call, "Hey! I left my pistol in your car. Can you bring it to me?"

The shooting after the fact seems beside the point unless the text said he was wanting it to commit a crime. I'm nervous if the law moves into the area that forces us to read people's minds and predict future actions/motives.

So again... Are we outraged and wanting a young man's future destroyed because we feel he did something wrong, or because he's a Bama basketball player and stupid sports rivalries cause enough irrational hate to want someone's future destroyed for things we'd be arguing in favor of our kids if our kids were in the same aituation?

I’ve read that he asked him to bring it because he was arguing with someone but not sure if that is accurate.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Don't forget the bama players that were caught in Louisiana with guns in their cars. Charges dropped, never missed a down.

Exactly, and Burton who hit a girl never punished. Look at the Ruggs kid who killed the girl driving drunk, you think it was his first time?

 

[Orangeredblooded]

So, what am I missing? An Alabama football player did something that isn't against the law, that many of us have done several times (i.e. taken someone their gun). Even the DA has said it wasn't against the law and there's nothing to charge.

But because someone besides the Bama player made the decision after the fact to kill someone with the gun, Bama should sit the player and possibly burn him at the stake?

Is there more to this, or is it just irrational Bama hate that wants to see a young man's future forever ruined?

I read that all in blue font, my eyes are blue at times so it was easy to read. .

 

[volbeast33]

You’ve taken a gun to someone in the middle of the night at a club where they’ve been drinking then blocked a road several times?

Totally normal and not suspicious behavior.

I don’t think blocking the road comment was accurate…..From what I read he was at another close location and asked to come and pick them up to take them somewhere else… he was told to make sure he had the gun with him that the other guy left in the car…. I’m not sure that is enough to make him an accessory unless there is proof that he knew something was going down.

 

[volbeast33]

Exactly, and Burton who hit a girl never punished. Look at the Ruggs kid who killed the girl driving drunk, you think it was his first time?

With our history…. I don’t know if we should judge players on driving drunk…. Leonard Little…. Goodrich…. And Stallworth are some pretty messed up situations.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I guess it depends on how Millers texts are interpreted. But why else when deliever the gun would he tell Miles and the other guy there is one in the chamber?
But yes we are, there is no doubt in my mind Tuscaloosa has probably covered up a lot for Bama athletics, just like what happened in Gainesville with a certain TE. Money talks.

The blocking exit is the troubling part to me.

If I'm handing a gun off with one in the chamber, even if it's at the firing range, I'm telling them there's one in the chamber.

I'll admit there is a little bit of devil's advocate here. But one mental exercise I try to use in situations like this, to try to cut through all the emotional narrative that's created for clicks, is to ask: "Would I be giving more benefit of the doubt to my son?"

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone."

My answer. "It's not illegal to being someone their gun back, and I don;t want you holding my son responsible for their decisions after they got their gun back."

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone while your son was blocking their exit."

A bit different, but even then I want more details. Did he park his car to block them in, or did he happen to park his car in a place that ended up blocking them in.

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone who your son had accidentally blocked in when he had parked. Then your son was seen on television acting out a mock pat-down."

I'm kicking my son's ass as a dumbass, no questions asked.

 

[butchna]

So, what am I missing? An Alabama football player did something that isn't against the law, that many of us have done several times (i.e. taken someone their gun). Even the DA has said it wasn't against the law and there's nothing to charge.

But because someone besides the Bama player made the decision after the fact to kill someone with the gun, Bama should sit the player and possibly burn him at the stake?

Is there more to this, or is it just irrational Bama hate that wants to see a young man's future forever ruined?

What’s MISSING is he transported a murder weapon to the scene of a crime. And a young mother’s memory is being downplayed by the coach and the team. Maybe it isn’t “illegal” but it’s ******* WRONG that her family has to hear from the coach that his star player got lost on the way to Albuquerque. It’s WRONG that his own teammate made a joke of patting him down during introductions. It’s WRONG that he didn’t text back his homie “HELL NAW!” over bringing him a loaded gun because some girl disrespected him when he hit on her. He does things differently and that girl’s alive. That’s what’s MISSING.

 

[volinexile17]

Point taken. The pat down pregame was definitely tone deaf.

Did the friend text him, "Bring me my gun. I'm going to cap someone's ***!"? My brother left his gun in my car before. I got a call, "Hey! I left my pistol in your car. Can you bring it to me?"

The shooting after the fact seems beside the point unless the text said he was wanting it to commit a crime. I'm nervous if the law moves into the area that forces us to read people's minds and predict future actions/motives.

So again... Are we outraged and wanting a young man's future destroyed because we feel he did something wrong, or because he's a Bama basketball player and stupid sports rivalries cause enough irrational hate to want someone's future destroyed for things we'd be arguing in favor of our kids if our kids were in the same aituation?

The law already and has for decades if not centuries contemplated future action with the phrase “should have known.” You often can’t put your head in the sand and ignore an obvious outcome. It’s not like Miller brought him a gun at a range or the woods right before hunting.

 

[butchna]

With our history…. I don’t know if we should judge players on driving drunk…. Leonard Little…. Goodrich…. And Stallworth are some pretty messed up situations.

What are you talking about?

 

[butchna]

Point taken. The pat down pregame was definitely tone deaf.

Did the friend text him, "Bring me my gun. I'm going to cap someone's ***!"? My brother left his gun in my car before. I got a call, "Hey! I left my pistol in your car. Can you bring it to me?"

The shooting after the fact seems beside the point unless the text said he was wanting it to commit a crime. I'm nervous if the law moves into the area that forces us to read people's minds and predict future actions/motives.

So again... Are we outraged and wanting a young man's future destroyed because we feel he did something wrong, or because he's a Bama basketball player and stupid sports rivalries cause enough irrational hate to want someone's future destroyed for things we'd be arguing in favor of our kids if our kids were in the same aituation?

I want some accountability before he cashes in on millions. Right now there’s been none.

 

[volbeast33]

It was in Dekalb county ALABAMA..so..

Whatever you say...dirty Refs and outright stupid/blind Refs and their little god complexes absolutely suck.

I have had it happen three times that I knew for sure the refs were bias…. An elementary school game(they were high giving the other team after it was over)…. We got them banned from doing any more of our games… a travel ball tourney against a team from Alabama…. The refs were from Alabama and called 9 charges against us…. A baseball league where we were the outcasts joining another counties league…. The problem is that every single game… fans think the refs are biased and against them…. Even the really good officials have fans berating them and usually don’t even understand the rules of the game…. It makes good officials to want to give it up… that leads to worse and worse officials reffing games…. Sometimes it leads to cancellations due to not being able to get a ref to come and officiate certain games.

 

[Orange_Crush]

What’s MISSING is he transported a murder weapon to the scene of a crime. And a young mother’s memory is being downplayed by the coach and the team. Maybe it isn’t “illegal” but it’s *******” WRONG that her family has to hear from the coach that his star player got lost on the way to Albuquerque. It’s WRONG that his own teammate made a joke of patting him down during introductions. It’s WRONG that he didn’t text back his homie “HELL NAW!” over bringing him a loaded gun because some girl disrespected him when he hit on her. He does things differently and that girl’s alive. That’s what’s MISSING.

I guess that's what I'm asking. And I am ASKING.

First, he didn't transport a murder weapon any more than I'd transported a murder weapon when I took my brother his pistol. In this case, it became a murder weapon AFTER (I'll join in the all caps) the gun left his control. And he didn't deliver it to the scene of a crime. It became the scene of a crime after the gun left his control.

I agree this is terribly sad and should have never happened.

I agree that the way Bama has handled this has been a bad look.

I agree the player in question has handled it looking like a punk, and if the walk-on was kicked off the team for the pat-down, the player who posed for the mock pat-down should have been kicked off the team as well.

I was just curious which parts made this man a criminal, and which parts should have had his future destroyed.

The way I read it now, it's a really, really bad look if nothing else, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see every NBA team go hands-off with him in the draft. However, I doubt that happens.

 

[volbeast33]

What are you talking about?

Little Goodrich, and Stallworth all killed someone while driving drunk.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

The blocking exit is the troubling part to me.

If I'm handing a gun off with one in the chamber, even if it's at the firing range, I'm telling them there's one in the chamber.

I'll admit there is a little bit of devil's advocate here. But one mental exercise I try to use in situations like this, to try to cut through all the emotional narrative that's created for clicks, is to ask: "Would I be giving more benefit of the doubt to my son?"

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone."

My answer. "It's not illegal to being someone their gun back, and I don;t want you holding my son responsible for their decisions after they got their gun back."

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone while your son was blocking their exit."

A bit different, but even then I want more details. Did he park his car to block them in, or did he happen to park his car in a place that ended up blocking them in.

"Hey, your son needs his future destroyed because someone left their gun with him, texted him to bring it to them, he did so, and then they killed someone who your son had accidentally blocked in when he had parked. Then your son was seen on television acting out a mock pat-down."

I'm kicking my son's ass as a dumbass, no questions asked.

How would Miller know if one was in the chamber though, unless he handeled the gun?
One of the arguments ive seen is Miller never touched the gun, he got there the guys opened the back seat, and retrieved the gun themselves. That doesnt hold water with Miller knowing there is one in the chamber.

 

[butchna]

I guess that's what I'm asking. And I am ASKING.

First, he didn't transport a murder weapon any more than I'd transported a murder weapon when I took my brother his pistol. In this case, it became a murder weapon AFTER (I'll join in the all caps) the gun left his control. And he didn't deliver it to the scene of a crime. It became the scene of a crime after the gun left his control.

I agree this is terribly sad and should have never happened.

I agree that the way Bama has handled this has been a bad look.

I agree the player in question has handled it looking like a punk, and if the walk-on was kicked off the team for the pat-down, the player who posed for the mock pat-down should have been kicked off the team as well.

I was just curious which parts made this man a criminal, and which parts should have had his future destroyed.

The way I read it now, it's a really, really bad look if nothing else, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see every NBA team go hands-off with him in the draft. However, I doubt that happens.

Where did anybody say he was a criminal? He made a bad decision that resulted in a death. If the gun you transported was almost instantly used in a murder, would you have felt absolutely no responsibility? If the answer is “no” then further conversation between us is pointless…carry on.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

With our history…. I don’t know if we should judge players on driving drunk…. Leonard Little…. Goodrich…. And Stallworth are some pretty messed up situations.

Its not a judgement, just a fact.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The law already and has for decades if not centuries contemplated future action with the phrase “should have known.” You often can’t put your head in the sand and ignore an obvious outcome. It’s not like Miller brought him a gun at a range or the woods right before hunting.

So, you're saying that the law is written in such a way that he should be held responsible for someone else's decision with the gun? That's a very dangerous slop. It sounds like it's not an interpretation of the law that the DA agrees with.

I want some accountability before he cashes in on millions. Right now there’s been none.

I guess that's why I'm asking for the clarification. I want accountability too. I just want the right people held accountable.

If the accountability rests on him, then I want him held accountable. If he took someone their gun when they asked for it, and that's it, then it's pretty dangerous to hold them accountable for the other person's decision just because we're afraid we're about to see them get rich.