Recruiting Forum Football Talk VI

[BigSteve09]

Ten days before college football’s spring transfer deadline, a Group of 5 head coach was fighting off covert efforts to swipe some of his best players.

This coach had buddies on SEC coaching staffs warning him. They were walking into their recruiting departments and noticing his players on highlight videos. “They let me know, ‘Coach, watch out. They’re about to take your kids,’” he said. He has won a few tug-of-wars with Power 5 schools trying to pay top dollar to poach his players. When one program recently tried to make an offer for one of his top offensive players, the senior brought it to the head coach. He called that school’s offensive coordinator, called him out and put a stop to it.

“In the old days, you recruited your class, right? Now, you re-recruit your class every year,” the first head coach said. “That’s the most amazing story: If I get through this cycle and I don’t lose any of these kids, it’s gonna be a miracle.”

The coach did not get a miracle. One week after he spoke with The Athletic, he lost one of his best players to the portal. Everything seemed to be fine and then, one day, it wasn’t. The coach chose not to make things “bloody.” He didn’t have enough proof. He didn’t see the point of fighting.

“Don’t want to comment on it,” he said in a text message.

“It certainly crosses your mind that we’re becoming a Triple-A farm system type of thing,” one Group of 5 general manager said. “That’s where we’re possibly heading.”

More than 1,100 scholarship players from Group of 5 schools have entered the NCAA transfer portal since August, and almost 600 of them have made commitments. So far, 200 are transferring to Power 5 schools. Sixty-four of those 200 earned all-conference honors last season.

For one Group of 5 personnel staffer whose program just lost its best player to a Power 5 school, this dynamic brings to mind the plight of the low-budget Oakland A’s in “Moneyball.” He texted a buddy, a Power 5 head coach, days after the portal reopened this spring and sent him the clip of Brad Pitt’s Billy Beane lecturing his scouting department about the economics of the MLB talent ecosystem.

How does it work? Power 5 programs have staffers working ahead on identifying and grading other teams’ players long before the portal windows open in December and April. PFF Ultimate and XOS have made this evaluation process faster than ever. A staffer can search for any player and immediately get advanced data along with a library of cut-ups of their film.

“Now it’s only five minutes away in the digital age,” the Group of Five personnel staffer said. “It’s not just, ‘Oh, that guy was a four-star recruit in high school.’ PFF is now this central mechanism along with XOS, and that has added kerosene to the fire.”

At one lower-tier Power 5 school, a head coach got one of his star players to turn down a mid-six-figure deal to stay. Then another player approached him with a DM he’d received from a coach. Though the player wasn’t looking to leave, the brazen nature of the messaging irritated the coach.

“It’s bulls—,” he said. “That’s just being dumb. The whole thing is a complete joke. And it’s also happening with the agent calling the collective. Or it’s going through the high school assistant. It’s all of the above.

“Most of the really good players aren’t going into the portal without knowing where they’re going. They already have a home.”

In April, a veteran Group of 5 head coach had one of his top offensive players walk into his office. The spring transfer window was opening in five days, and he wanted to talk about entering. The coach was curious how prepared the player was for the process.

“How much do you know about it? Where are you gonna get your information?” he asked.

The player admitted he’d already talked to two Power 5 schools. He named both of them, too, and ended up committing to the first one he mentioned.

“The (financial) promises are worth as much as the conversation,” one GM at a Group of 5 school said. “You get in the portal, you get there and then they’ve got to come through on all of that stuff. If they don’t, what are you gonna do?”

One Group of 5 coordinator knows that one of his starters was contacted by a Power 5 coach telling the player he could be a starter and make six figures. The player wasn’t in the portal but did ultimately leave.

“They were coming out here and recruiting high schools, and then they’re meeting up with my player in the same town,” the coordinator alleged. “They were encouraging my guy to get in the portal, offering him $150,000 to $200,000.”

This coach has lost multiple starters to Power 5 schools this offseason. When asked how often he suspects one of his players was encouraged by others to enter the portal, he chuckled.

“We actually only have ourselves to blame,” he said, “because now we have this system that has agents and the collectives be part of this process. I don’t blame the student-athlete. I hate when people say kids have changed. They really haven’t. It’s us as adults. We’ve changed. We’ve changed the rules on them. It’s such a cop-out to say the kids have changed. Maybe I’m naïve. Maybe the third parties have always been very involved in this. But now they’re much more out there and it’s easier for them to be involved.”

Last August, NCAA officials sent a letter to members seeking help as they investigate cases of NIL inducement and tampering. Their enforcement staff needs these reluctant coaches and players to start providing “documentary evidence and details on the record” in order to expedite investigations. Coaches and athletic directors who’ve confronted other schools about tampering incidents have told The Athletic they’re reluctant to move forward with an NCAA inquiry or even go public with allegations because they don’t want to harm the player and they know pursuing it would be perceived as “sour grapes” or, worse, vindictive.

“Nobody’s really turning anybody in because nobody believes anything is gonna be done,” one coordinator at a Group of 5 school argued. “Who is the NCAA gonna bang on this? They ain’t gonna bang a blue-blood program on this, I promise you that. And, until something really substantial is done, it’s just gonna keep happening.

“The other part of this is, if you are gonna be the guy or the program that’s gonna go on record, you’d better make sure your house is clean before you start kicking up dust.”

Really crazy times

 

[LA Vol]

NCAA and ESPN just flexed on softball seeding. They put who they wanted where they wanted in the brackets, based on money and the ability to build their preferred narratives. They can't explain the seeding, they aren't concerned about trying and no one's asking. It won't stop until schools collectively speak out-- which, so far, they have not. Congrats to the LVs for overcoming-- hope they can continue to do so.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

The smart Group of 5 programs will embrace that a true farming system is 2 way.

There are quite a few high rated 3/4 star prospects that can't quite break the lineup at established P5 schools and want playing time past special teams work in their first 2 or 3 seasons so with a free transfer they'll take a chance going to a Group of 5 to ball out for a year or 2 and then return to a Power 5 for their final season to try and get the NFL attention.

 

[mrmax86]

NCAA and ESPN just flexed on softball seeding. They put who they wanted where they wanted in the brackets, based on money and the ability to build their preferred narratives. They can't explain the seeding, they aren't concerned about trying and no one's asking. It won't stop until schools collectively speak out-- which, so far, they have not. Congrats to the LVs for overcoming-- hope they can continue to do so.

 

[butchna]

Really crazy times

Next time we complain that Heupel’s not bringing in enough portals? MAYBE he’s playing it right. The extreme examples mentioned will get a comeuppance…errything cycles.

Bama’s dominating in this arena fwiw.

 

[drvenner]

Sure thing bud. Grow up.

Irony.

 

[drvenner]

Yeah God forbid someone voice an opinion right? Apparently you and some others can’t reread properly. I am not talking about the great performances of game 1 and 2. I am talking about the final game. That’s it. Some of you need to grow up. I am sure you guessed UK would shut us out in game 3 right? You had us losing right? Lol. Get over yourself. I thought we would win a close game. Get over yourself.

Ah, and now, we are going into persecution mode. You at least follow the instructions very well.

 

[drvenner]

Does it sound like he pays attention

Good point.

 

[rjd970]

Next time we complain that Heupel’s not bringing in enough portals? MAYBE he’s playing it right. The extreme examples mentioned will get a comeuppance…errything cycles.

Bama’s dominating in this arena fwiw.

If history is any indication I seriously doubt this. The extreme examples will just keep collecting titles while the NCAA looks the other way and punishes the rule followers and organizations that cooperate with investigations.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Good catch. I had forgotten DD was on staff with the Gumps.

excellent, well done. Also, points for posting on a Monday.

 

[peaygolf]

@peaygolf

That’s a big ‘ole boy……..

 

[Big Orange#1]

Am I mistaken, or were there regular vehicles passing them as they were anchoring?

I can see getting used to tornadoes if you live in Nebraska, but I still don’t think I would be driving around with a huge tornado in shouting distance.

Those were some fellow storm chasers who just about got themselves killed. There has been a huge influx of Ill-prepared amateur moron adreline chasers getting hit by tornadoes this year specifically.
here’s an example:

 

[Enki_Amenra]

NCAA and ESPN just flexed on softball seeding. They put who they wanted where they wanted in the brackets, based on money and the ability to build their preferred narratives. They can't explain the seeding, they aren't concerned about trying and no one's asking. It won't stop until schools collectively speak out-- which, so far, they have not. Congrats to the LVs for overcoming-- hope they can continue to do so.

I'm confused on this.

The Lady Vols are the 4th overall seed. Were we expected to be higher? 4th overall seems pretty good. That's equivalent to being ranked #4 in the nation, right?

 

[Enki_Amenra]

That’s a big ‘ole boy……..

TWSS

 

[drvenner]

Never gets old.

 

[drvenner]

built like tarzan, plays like jane

sigh.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Those were some fellow storm chasers who just about got themselves killed. There has been a huge influx of Ill-prepared amateur moron adreline chasers getting hit by tornadoes this year specifically.
here’s an example:

See my org post.

Reed is a self serving douche canoe. Thinks he is God's gift to meterology. Other than the thrill and adrenaline rush, wtf is the point of squatting in a tornado.

1/2 if his original crew of Storm Chasers have
died, waay too early. Another crew (father and son) on show died while filming.

Horrible.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Never gets old.

twss

 

[Jimmy Football]

I'm confused on this.

The Lady Vols are the 4th overall seed. Were we expected to be higher? 4th overall seems pretty good. That's equivalent to being ranked #4 in the nation, right?

I think anywhere from 2-4 was reasonable, for us. But there were some mind-boggling decisions for several others.

The biggest offender was Alabama (shocking, I know). They had a fairly mediocre season, finished tied for fourth in the SEC, likely just lost their best player, and lost to us 3 out of 4, times, yet are only one seed behind us, and arguably got one the easiest regional groupings in the field.

Like I said, their fans were worried they wouldn’t even host a regional, yet they are only one seed behind the SEC and SECT champs.

 

[drvenner]

I did after the weather delay!

So, now you're trying to blame it on your wife? Nice.

 

[butchna]

If history is any indication I seriously doubt this. The extreme examples will just keep collecting titles while the NCAA looks the other way and punishes the rule followers and organizations that cooperate with investigations.

HISTORICALLY they operated under a system that got winked at and couldn’t be confirmed. Even then Bama got caught and dinged, like in the Means case when they outran their coverage. Much more that can be documented and PROVEN when they inevitably get wanton in meddling to create portal players. Run into the wrong group of Congressional Oversighters at the right time and the programs that are doing NIL but doing it right will shine through.

 

[jave36]

It is also important to note that France would fold up like a cheap tent and first MENTION of a gun. Rest of that area were non combatants. Also, Europe isnt the world.

I don't know that he had world domination aspirations haha.

One of my favorite French battles is Poitier. They outnumbered the English by a million, but one of the French Dukes just left the battle with a third of the army for no reason at all, then the rest of the army was worried that meant they were losing so they just surrendered and let their KING be captured!

 

[drvenner]

What do you call a Magician who has lost his magic?






Ian.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I'm confused on this.

The Lady Vols are the 4th overall seed. Were we expected to be higher? 4th overall seems pretty good. That's equivalent to being ranked #4 in the nation, right?

Yeah, but some others are very questionable... for example Alabama is the 5 seed, but was sitting 16th in the May 8th D1Softball Top 25 rankings.

OK State as a 6 seed, but was 12th in the same D1 rankings. Clemson was a 16 seed, but was ranked higher than both OK State & Bama.

 

[Jackcrevol]

What do you call a Magician who has lost his magic?






Ian.

Would make more sense if it said Wizard.

A magician just does card tricks.