Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XI

#9,376
#9,376
VolGee4 said:
Just depends on what you believe is 2nd tier. I can name almost 20 programs that are better right now and probably another 12-15 that could be argued and on the same level. I went through it recently. There is just a "vibe" around our program that it is not as good as it seems even though attendance is great. Perception becomes reality. I love my alma mater, but I do not believe it is as good a job as others want it to be, especially when we will only pay 1.3 million for a coach. Have we not learned to bring the goods for a coach?
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Preach. From a guy and his wife that even sat through the Wade Houston debacle.

Now we have players speaking in the media that the fan base is responsible - when it was them and their coaches. Yet what does Hart do? He uses it as an opportunity to play the fan base for his future hire by thinly veiling his reference to the petition being a problem. This is all what you get when you try to do things on the cheap.
 
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#9,377
#9,377
Maxwell said:
Go talk to Marshall. Pay his price. Sit back and enjoy. This search is nuts. I have spent my last basketball dollar in TBA if White or Tyndall is the best we can do. I have attended many games in SAC and TBA. I've been to many of Mears games and up to the present. I love the Vols. It is starting to hurt too much to watch over and over as incompetent administrators run Tennessee sports into the ground. Even if Jones is successful ( and I will grant he could be ) his hire was dumb luck. Cheek and Hart should be held accountable. We graduate thousands of students from the business school and none are competent to run the university or our athletics ? I do not understand this. We are a laughingstock in the media. Coaches are afraid to come here. We have awesome facilities , yet coaches look at Tennessee as a stepping stone. The athletic department ( much like our government ) has wasted my money. They say that we are not able to hire a quality coach. Sit back and enjoy whatever product we decide to give you. Well no, I have a choice. Put a quality product out there and maybe I will show up again. I'm disabled. Why should I drive 2 and 1/2 hours to a basketball game that lasts 2 hours, and root like my life depends on it, at a top tier facility that I and other fans helped pay for, when we have a mere faint hope for a coach. Hobble back out to the car and drive 2 and 1/2 hours home. I will still root for the Vols. I will listen to the radio or perhaps watch it from the comfort of home. And hopefully our administrators will understand that one empty seat in the stadium is a preview of things to come if they do not pony up the money to put a competitive product on the floor.
I will have my detractors and that is fine with me. I care not. It is my health, my money, my time. I was there when Mears and Pearl won. Also I remember some quality wins with DeVoe and Green. Martin had a few as well. I remember when basketball in the SEC was Kentucky then Tennessee. Alabama started winning. Now it is Florida. Our administrators have watched us slide from second to being irrelevant. That is sad.
I mentioned Marshall at the beginning. He is one man and there are many that could take Tennessee to great heights. If we settle for less we condone what is happening. If we really love Tennessee we help our team by demanding more. The choice is yours. If you want mediocrity then that is your choice. I want to be second and putting up a challenge for first. We have the facilities already. Mears and Pearl have shown us the way. Let us please find a coach to take us to a final four at some point. If you are still reading thank you for listening.
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I read every word. I fully agree.

It is part of the fan conditioning program of UT. Reduce (manage) the expectations - yet - they still want you to pay the ever growing cost. Nah.

Also just sayin' - Butch has not proven one thing on the field for UT yet. Yet, he was far more accomplished as a football coach as this bunch of basketball coaches that Hart is talking to in the reports we are hearing. I can far more understand a Butch hire, than a White or Tyndall or a whatever. But even the Butch hire was a last second panic hire when Strong, Gundy, whoever, turned them down.

Tux doesn't like Miller. Yet Miller went to the Elite 8 with a bunch of nobodies. Cronin is making it happen with a bunch of nobodies. Those are a Butch Jones type hire. At least go there if you are not willing to hire the best available like Marshall or pay the freight for Smart.
 
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#9,378
#9,378
Maxwell said:
Go talk to Marshall. Pay his price. Sit back and enjoy. This search is nuts. I have spent my last basketball dollar in TBA if White or Tyndall is the best we can do. I have attended many games in SAC and TBA. I've been to many of Mears games and up to the present. I love the Vols. It is starting to hurt too much to watch over and over as incompetent administrators run Tennessee sports into the ground. Even if Jones is successful ( and I will grant he could be ) his hire was dumb luck. Cheek and Hart should be held accountable. We graduate thousands of students from the business school and none are competent to run the university or our athletics ? I do not understand this. We are a laughingstock in the media. Coaches are afraid to come here. We have awesome facilities , yet coaches look at Tennessee as a stepping stone. The athletic department ( much like our government ) has wasted my money. They say that we are not able to hire a quality coach. Sit back and enjoy whatever product we decide to give you. Well no, I have a choice. Put a quality product out there and maybe I will show up again. I'm disabled. Why should I drive 2 and 1/2 hours to a basketball game that lasts 2 hours, and root like my life depends on it, at a top tier facility that I and other fans helped pay for, when we have a mere faint hope for a coach. Hobble back out to the car and drive 2 and 1/2 hours home. I will still root for the Vols. I will listen to the radio or perhaps watch it from the comfort of home. And hopefully our administrators will understand that one empty seat in the stadium is a preview of things to come if they do not pony up the money to put a competitive product on the floor.
I will have my detractors and that is fine with me. I care not. It is my health, my money, my time. I was there when Mears and Pearl won. Also I remember some quality wins with DeVoe and Green. Martin had a few as well. I remember when basketball in the SEC was Kentucky then Tennessee. Alabama started winning. Now it is Florida. Our administrators have watched us slide from second to being irrelevant. That is sad.
I mentioned Marshall at the beginning. He is one man and there are many that could take Tennessee to great heights. If we settle for less we condone what is happening. If we really love Tennessee we help our team by demanding more. The choice is yours. If you want mediocrity then that is your choice. I want to be second and putting up a challenge for first. We have the facilities already. Mears and Pearl have shown us the way. Let us please find a coach to take us to a final four at some point. If you are still reading thank you for listening.
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Hart isn't exactly working with Bama fund reserves here. Similar to how you shouldn't go and just drain your entire savings account for the best car/boat you can buy.
 
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#9,379
#9,379
Vols4us said:
I read every word. I fully agree.

It is part of the fan conditioning program of UT. Reduce (manage) the expectations - yet - they still want you to pay the ever growing cost. Nah.

Also just sayin' - Butch has not proven one thing on the field for UT yet. Yet, he was far more accomplished as a football coach as this bunch of basketball coaches that Hart is talking to in the reports we are hearing. I can far more understand a Butch hire, than a White or Tyndall or a whatever. But even the Butch hire was a last second panic hire when Strong, Gundy, whoever, turned them down.

Tux doesn't like Miller. Yet Miller went to the Elite 8 with a bunch of nobodies. Cronin is making it happen with a bunch of nobodies. Those are a Butch Jones type hire. At least go there if you are not willing to hire the best available like Marshall or pay the freight for Smart.
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Honestly, whoever we hire, could we at least give them a chance to succeed before saying that they won't do well here?
 
#9,380
#9,380
Nashvegas31 said:
Hart isn't exactly working with Bama fund reserves here. Similar to how you shouldn't go and just drain your entire savings account for the best car/boat you can buy.
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This. People might be shocked about this, but UT's reserve is about $1.9M, while other schools in the SEC are around 50-100M.
 
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#9,383
#9,383
Hart should view this as an investment. This is not the same as buying a car/boat which decrease in value (I guess it could be if he hires a bad coach on the cheap).
 
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#9,384
#9,384
Ron Swanson said:
That seems to be too much to ask for many fans.
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No joke. I don't get why people can't take a wait and see approach. It always has to be he is greatest or he is worst when really we have no clue what they will do or how good or bad they could be.

I don't pretend to know mike white or Tyndall or any of these other college coaches in bball so I'm not going to overly excited or depressed at hires. I will just be like ok let's see what he can do. This seems to be hard for people to do for some reason. It's basketball. There isn't a huge pool of elite home run coaches. You can prob count them on two hands. Look at the nba who has to recycle awful coaches throughout the league only to fire them in 1-2 yrs.

This means most schools have to always hire an hopeful rising star in basketball. It's just the state of the game. It's not hard to duplicate what Cuonzo did at TN either besides possibly the sweet 16 run but I have a hard time believing that should have been as hard as he made it look with this teams talent last year.
 
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#9,385
#9,385
volatil said:
Hart should view this as an investment. This is not the same as buying a car/boat which decrease in value (I guess it could be if he hires a bad coach on the cheap).
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Even in an investment you don't drain your liquid assets to rock bottom. You make an investment with money you can afford to spend on an investment. If you drain your entire liquid asset what happens if an emergency pops up in a few months?

We have several building projects going on as well an lets face it football gets first dibs on money. There are also several other sports that need money. Once football is king again nationally then maybe Hart can make a bball hire with no worries of money
 
#9,386
#9,386
Nashvegas31 said:
Even in an investment you don't drain your liquid assets to rock bottom. You make an investment with money you can afford to spend on an investment. If you drain your entire liquid asset what happens if an emergency pops up in a few months?

We have several building projects going on as well an lets face it football gets first dibs on money. There are also several other sports that need money. Once football is king again nationally then maybe Hart can make a bball hire with no worries of money
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An extra million/yr puts UT at Rock Bottom? We have bigger problems than a basketball coach then.

The difference in candidate pool from 1.3 to 2.3 is big IMO. Instead of hoping a guy can coach, you are now talking about guys like Marshall who are proven.

Just my opinion. Yours is very valid as well.
 
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#9,388
#9,388
LWS said this morning that is what he was told yesterday, but tried to confirm again but could not as of this morning.
 
#9,393
#9,393
volatil said:
An extra million/yr puts UT at Rock Bottom? We have bigger problems than a basketball coach then.

The difference in candidate pool from 1.3 to 2.3 is big IMO. Instead of hoping a guy can coach, you are now talking about guys like Marshall who are proven.

Just my opinion. Yours is very valid as well.
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2.3 won't get Marshall. It would take 3.
 
#9,394
#9,394
OK - we are all on many sides of this issue like a geometry problem. There will be no resolution that makes everybody happy when hiring from the B list. When hiring from the A list more people are happy and the odds for success jump exponentially. What did Bama do in football? What did Kentucky do in basketball? Yet, "we are Tennessee" rings hollow when you trot out an unproven B lister few had even known existed until the speculation started.
 
#9,395
#9,395
If you didn't like Cuonzo, you won't like Howland or Marshall... Marshall is pretty much a white cuonzo personality wise and Howland plays a slower more methodical approach than cuonzo...

I think too many people are getting caught up on the names. Everyone complained about cuonzo teams but they want to hire people with similar styles?
 
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#9,396
#9,396
volatil said:
Unless Ben Howland is being investigated in a murder case, he should have a contract in hand at this moment.

Good grief.
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If no Marshall or Smart - yes - Ben Howland.

Many of the same people arguing against Howland were for bringing Pearl back. Yet, Howland's resume is much better than Pearl's with no "show cause" on it. Auburn was able to swallow that really quickly, but we don't want a highly successful coach that has what amounts to a career hiccup because "everybody else has passed so he must be really bad". Instead they might want to consider Howland is choosy about where he finishes his career and requires more money than most are willing to pay.
 
#9,398
#9,398
Nashvegas31 said:
No joke. I don't get why people can't take a wait and see approach. It always has to be he is greatest or he is worst when really we have no clue what they will do or how good or bad they could be.

I don't pretend to know mike white or Tyndall or any of these other college coaches in bball so I'm not going to overly excited or depressed at hires. I will just be like ok let's see what he can do. This seems to be hard for people to do for some reason. It's basketball. There isn't a huge pool of elite home run coaches. You can prob count them on two hands. Look at the nba who has to recycle awful coaches throughout the league only to fire them in 1-2 yrs.

This means most schools have to always hire an hopeful rising star in basketball. It's just the state of the game. It's not hard to duplicate what Cuonzo did at TN either besides possibly the sweet 16 run but I have a hard time believing that should have been as hard as he made it look with this teams talent last year.
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Thank you.

Not saying any of the candidates will for sure turn out this way, but a huge chunk of this fanbase would have burned things if UT hired Billy Donovan with is 35-20 record at Marshall.

Yes, it appears UT is shopping cheap but I think that's simply what finances dictate.

I'm at least happy that the "cheaper" options we're looking at look like good coaches.
 
#9,399
#9,399
Vols4us said:
What did Bama do in football? What did Kentucky do in basketball? Yet, "we are Tennessee" rings hollow when you trot out an unproven B lister few had even known existed until the speculation started.
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I'm sure I'll be flamed for this, but I don't think prospective coaches see Tennessee as in the same league as Kentucky and Bama, in basketball and football respectively. So, I'm not sure we can do what they did without spending considerably more money and making lots of guarantees about investments in the program, etc. An A lister takes on more risks to their reputation coming here for either sport, especially considering the fan base has little patience for "rebuilding" in either sport, when it is obvious both are in need of a rebuild.
 
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