Recruiting Forum: Football Talk XI

[ob79]

Is 3 top 10 money?

If so, that's too much for him.

I think the sticking point is, and will always be, the salary being commensurate to the HC of the football program--no matter who it is. The fact is, UT will never pay more for the BB HC than it will the FB HC, ever.

Right or wrong, that's a fact.

Personally, I think it's wrong. If you have the right coach--one that you think can bring Final Fours, Elite 8's, etc. to the program with consistency--you pay that price, regardless if [fill in the blank] makes more money.


The most frustrating part about the 50 coaching searches we've had to endure of the last decade (over all our programs) is that our mentally challenged administration and AD puts a greater emphasis on finding a coach within a salary range, rather than who will yield the greatest return on our investment--regardless of the salary.

Does that mean we should pay top dollar everytime? No. Hell no. I'm a big fan of getting a good deal but sometimes a good deal is the one for which you pay a little extra to get a little more in return.

I'm not going to pretend to be a soothsayer or fortune teller but a Gregg Marshall at UT has, IMO, an immediate effect--with recruits, with the media, with publicity, et al. That's free publicity, by the way--and an immediate return on our investment.

Another thing...Hart lucked into Butch Jones, after being publicly shamed by the head coach at a vastly inferior school.

Louisiana Tech makes Louisville look like the New York Yankees. We cannot be publicly turned down by their HC. Privately, yes. Publicly, no.

I am not a fan of Dave Hart's coaching searches thus far. Backing into a potential home run hire is akin to UT's backing into the SECCG in '07.

 

[vol2002]

Do other universities always get the first guy they go after? Are coaching searches at other schools always smooth with no public turn downs?

I've never followed them closely, so I don't know. But that seems to be the working assumption of many in our fanbase who consistently trash Hart's coaching searches.

Personally, I think he's going to land us a good coach.

 

[WriterVol]

UT's backing into the SECCG in '07.

May I just take a moment to say that I hate when people say this kind of stuff.

 

[UTMVol76]

Do other universities always get the first guy they go after? Are coaching searches at other schools always smooth with no public turn downs?

I've never followed them closely, so I don't know. But that seems to be the working assumption of many in our fanbase who consistently trash Hart's coaching searches.

Personally, I think he's going to land us a good coach.

I'll quote this because its akin to my thoughts. Does no one remember that Saban was not the 1st choice for Bama and that Rich Rod actually had the job for a day. Did Tejas get their 1st choice? There are many other examples, but the fact stands that the hiring process for ANY top tier job is never the seamless, black and white process that everyone on here assumes it is. There are many circumstances that go into any decision on both sides that can derail any decision. Also, remember when Florida got Muschamp, he was the hot name, can't miss guy. Jury is still out, but that doesn't appear to be the case. Stay thirsty my friends.

 

[volatil]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

-Dave Hart

I have a feeling tons of misinformation be leaked.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Do other universities always get the first guy they go after? Are coaching searches at other schools always smooth with no public turn downs?

I've never followed them closely, so I don't know. But that seems to be the working assumption of many in our fanbase who consistently trash Hart's coaching searches.

Personally, I think he's going to land us a good coach.

Exactly, good post. Texas was publicly turned down for their FB HC job by over a handful of guys before they settled.

 

[screenthis]

I wouldn't trust ESPN for much.

"Sources confirmed to ESPN.com that the 37-year-old White, who has led the Bulldogs to a 74-31 mark over the last three seasons, is the choice of Vols athletic director Dave Hart."

It really is a good idea to just let the process play out. Constant 'sources' articles will come and go, a coach may be reported to 'spurn' a UT offer, and we may even be told that John Gruden is moments away from accepting an offer. All the while, Hart remains quiet and follows (I assume) a very methodical and 'emotion free' process. Thus far, I like Hart's approach in both the Football and Basketball search.

 

[Chuckie]

Do other universities always get the first guy they go after? Are coaching searches at other schools always smooth with no public turn downs?

I've never followed them closely, so I don't know. But that seems to be the working assumption of many in our fanbase who consistently trash Hart's coaching searches.

Personally, I think he's going to land us a good coach.

Allow me to present Matt Doherty as Exhibit A for the argument that other schools (basketball schools, no less) don't always get their guy. SMH...that was an awful time for UNC basketball.

 

[WarMachine]

Anything new in Vol football world? I thought I saw that Gibson was going to announce something?

 

[Vol knight]

Gary Parrish
‏@GaryParrishCBS
A source told @CBSSports that talks between Tennessee and Michael White have cooled. He’s likely to stay at Louisiana Tech. Story coming …

Tyndall, come on down! You're the next contestant on the Tennessee Coaching Search.

 

[Vols4us]

Gary Parrish
‏@GaryParrishCBS
A source told @CBSSports that talks between Tennessee and Michael White have cooled. He’s likely to stay at Louisiana Tech. Story coming …

Tyndall, come on down! You're the next contestant on the Tennessee Coaching Search.

And this isn't embarrassing?! A down the B list guy passes to stay at La Tech? lol.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to do business with Hart, Cheek and the folks that run UT. Maybe.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

My Minnesota Timberwolves are interested in Billy Donovan. Rumors are he, Izzo, and Hoiberg are the top 3

 

[vol2002]

And this isn't embarrassing?! A down the B list guy passes to stay at La Tech? lol.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to do business with Hart, Cheek and the folks that run UT. Maybe.

Who cares. As long as we get a good coach, very few people outside of our rabid, insecure fanbase will remember this long term.

 

[Mike4Vols]

Who cares. As long as we get a good coach, very few people outside of our rabid, insecure fanbase will remember this long term.

Exactly.

 

[SCvol333]

I may be in the minority on here but I don't mind public rejections at all - I could care less how many coaches turn UT down - I just want to make sure we land the right guy for the job - imo you may be leaving some good candidates on the table if you only go after ones really likely to say yes - let them say no - it happened in football and we still got a really good coach - all that matters is the quality of the person you eventually hire - not how many times you had to ask to get there

EDIT.....didnt see your post when I put this vol2002 - completely agree with you

 

[SouthKnoxVOL]

And this isn't embarrassing?! A down the B list guy passes to stay at La Tech? lol.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to do business with Hart, Cheek and the folks that run UT. Maybe.

Maybe you should stop acting like UT is an "Elite" bball school.

 

[vol2002]

I may be the only one but I don't mind public rejections at all - I could care less how many coaches turn UT down - I just want to make sure we land the right guy for the job - imo you may be leaving some good candidates on the table if you only go after ones really likely to say yes - let them say no - it happened in football and we still got a really good coach - all that matters is the quality of the person you eventually hire - not how many times you had to ask to get there

EDIT.....didnt see your post when I put this vol2002 - completely agree with you

Agree 100%. If it were up to some elements of our fanbase though, we'd fire the AD at the first public rejection and then we'd be in the market for a new HC AND AD. I'm sure that level of stability would be attractive to potential candidates.

This is all just talk show fodder for the masses.

Just end up with a good coach whatever path you take to get there.

 

[volatil]

And this isn't embarrassing?! A down the B list guy passes to stay at La Tech? lol.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to do business with Hart, Cheek and the folks that run UT. Maybe.

Maybe he was told he wasn't the guy. Kind of like Cuonzo at Marquette.

Hart is king of misdirection

 

[volatil]

I have hope Howland takes the podium this week

 

[SCvol333]

Agree 100%. If it were up to some elements of our fanbase though, we'd fire the AD at the first public rejection and then we'd be in the market for a new HC AND AD. I'm sure that level of stability would be attractive to potential candidates.

This is all just talk show fodder for the masses.

Just end up with a good coach whatever path you take to get there.

yep and the funny thing is Hart tells you who he is going to try and get - like in the football search he said he was going to go after someone with proven HC experience - when you do that you are more likely to get turned down since they are currently a HC

if he were to go after a hot OC or DC then he likely wouldnt have had anyone turn him down - but he wanted someone who had won a conference at a major level and shown HC success and with CBJ that is exactly what he got

so I have 100% faith that he will get us a really good HC

he has done everything right imo since taking over for Hamilton - our finances are much better - we just got paid a buyout instead of the other way around, the AD is starting to get reserves - contracts are written with much more protection for the AD - if football can get back to being good (which with our recruiting it seems like it will) then Hart will really have us on the right track

I just see no reason to question him at this point

 

[ob79]

Do other universities always get the first guy they go after? Are coaching searches at other schools always smooth with no public turn downs?

I've never followed them closely, so I don't know. But that seems to be the working assumption of many in our fanbase who consistently trash Hart's coaching searches.

Personally, I think he's going to land us a good coach.

I can't speak for everyone on here but, personally; sure, I expect to be turned down by HC's. It's the nature of the beast, but if you're offering the HC job to another HC, and that his acceptance would universally be considered a significant step-up--his refusal would almost universally be considered a black eye for the program which extended the offer.

What I'm talking about, more than anything, is public perception. I don't lose sleep over it but, it irritates me when my University is portrayed in a negative light...every single time. I care about our reputation as a school, athletics department, program, etc.

So when (or if) a HC from an inferior school laments whether to leave Louisiana Tech (that's almost an oxymoron, by the way) for the University of Tennessee it reflects poorly on UT. I don't like that.

Simply put, UT cannot extend an offer to an up-and-comer HC under any risk of being publicly turned down.

May I just take a moment to say that I hate when people say this kind of stuff.

I don't like saying it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. If not for Florida and UGA cancelling each other out, we don't make it in.

We lost to our two biggest rivals, badly. To me, those two losses are what finally opened my eyes to Fulmer's eventual demise. That was a tough pill to swallow for someone who still has his autographed picture on his wall.

However, we played one hell of an SECCG and took the eventual national champ to 00:00. I don't mean to take away from those player's accomplishments, they fought like hell and had the best season we've had in a decade.

 

[Mike4Vols]

yep and the funny thing is Hart tells you who he is going to try and get - like in the football search he said he was going to go after someone with proven HC experience - when you do that you are more likely to get turned down since they are currently a HC

if he were to go after a hot OC or DC then he likely wouldnt have had anyone turn him down - but he wanted someone who had won a conference at a major level and shown HC success and with CBJ that is exactly what he got

so I have 100% faith that he will get us a really good HC

he has done everything right imo since taking over for Hamilton - our finances are much better - we just got paid a buyout instead of the other way around, the AD is starting to get reserves - contracts are written with much more protection for the AD - if football can get back to being good (which with our recruiting it seems like it will) then Hart will really have us on the right track

I just see no reason to question him at this point

Yea, my thoughts as well. I think either White or Tyndall would be a fine hire.

I can't see paying $3M for Marshall. That just doesn't make good fiscal sense.

 

[volinexile17]

And this isn't embarrassing?! A down the B list guy passes to stay at La Tech? lol.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't want to do business with Hart, Cheek and the folks that run UT. Maybe.

I can see circumstances in which public rejections would be embarrassing, but all this says is "talks cooled," not we made a Godfather offer and White said "meh, pass."

Looks to me like UT and White had a difference of opinion on the value of his services. No big deal - next candidate.

 

[OddFuture]

I can see circumstances in which public rejections would be embarrassing, but all this says is "talks cooled," not we made a Godfather offer and White said "meh, pass."

Looks to me like we UT and White had a difference of opinion on the value of his services. No big deal - next candidate.

Word is we couldn't get buyout numbers for both sides right. Not sure whether UT wanted an out for the school but not White or vice versa but I think they hit the salary on the head. I think I remember seeing White wanted 5 years where it'd be hard to fire him and Hart wanted a clear out after 3 and 4.

This could be slightly off

 

[volinexile17]

I can't speak for everyone on here but, personally; sure, I expect to be turned down by HC's. It's the nature of the beast, but if you're offering the HC job to another HC, and that his acceptance would universally be considered a significant step-up--his refusal would almost universally be considered a black eye for the program which extended the offer.

What I'm talking about, more than anything, is public perception. I don't lose sleep over it but, it irritates me when my University is portrayed in a negative light...every single time. I care about our reputation as a school, athletics department, program, etc.

So when (or if) a HC from an inferior school laments whether to leave Louisiana Tech (that's almost an oxymoron, by the way) for the University of Tennessee it reflects poorly on UT. I don't like that.

Simply put, UT cannot extend an offer to an up-and-comer HC under any risk of being publicly turned down.

Disagree. Unless you know the terms of the offer, or if there was even an offer, it doesn't reflect poorly on UT. I haven't seen anything that said Hart extended an offer and White said no. All I've seen is that the two sides are talking, and now they're backing away. That could be for dozens of reasons on either side.