Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

[BigZiti09]

So BB isn't happy with the DB development. Same with LB and now with the DL and I agree with all of it but there is one person in charge of all of those areas that is supposed to be putting a plan together for all to succeed. That isn't happening like it should.

Or maybe BB overvalues our talent juuuuusttt a bit.

After his first start, John Kelly is Heisman material.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Cam looked more impressive early. Tabor was definitely better last year. He was the best in the SEC last year.

He's always been a bit of a nonfactor in the run game though. It's not the he can't hit, you can just tell he doesn't want to very much. Reminds me of Deangelo Hall in that (though Tabor's a bit bigger).

 

[jjay2518]

Come on, guys. If Jalen would have left after last year, we all would have been upset. We had not seen enough of Kelly to know how special he is. I think that the staff definitely made the right move by convincing him to stay. If they knew how it would have worked out, then they would definitely have gone a different direction. He was on pace to break the school rushing record and was developing as a receiver out of the backfield.

Didn't realize coaches were supposed to make decisions based on whether it would upset fans, and they should have seen enough of John Kelly to know what they had.

 

[BruinVol]

Or maybe BB overvalues our talent juuuuusttt a bit.

After his first start, John Kelly is Heisman material.

Maybe a little bit of that but This defense hasn't been prepared for games at all. They have been atrocious in the 1st quarter. Even Saturday An OVC terrible offense went right down the field to start the game.

I have zero confidence that Shoop with have the defense ready to stop the wild cat. We should win the game but it will be by out scoring them.

 

[RikidyBones]

He's always been a bit of a nonfactor in the run game though. It's not the he can't hit, you can just tell he doesn't want to very much. Reminds me of Deangelo Hall in that (though Tabor's a bit bigger).

I said this somewhere else but Tabor is too finesse. He constantly backs away from contact. I'll take Cam on my pro team way before Tabor.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

So BB isn't happy with the DB development. Same with LB and now with the DL and I agree with all of it but there is one person in charge of all of those areas that is supposed to be putting a plan together for all to succeed. That isn't happening like it should.

Eh I don't think DL coach is much of a problem. Comparing our guys to Bama's is just silly. It's a jimmies and joes sitution, not a coaching one.

We've signed 3 5 star or borderline 5 star DL since Butch came in. All are Sophomores and none have been all that healthy over the past 2 years. Meanwhile Bama's DL is stacked with guys who are mostly in their 3rd or 4th years and were former 4 and 5 star recruits (though I think they do have a freshman and/or sophomore 5* sprinkled in the two deep as well). They lost two DTs into the 2nd round of the draft last year and got better this year. That's fairly impressive for any unit.

Meanwhile the healthy guys Strip has been working with since he got here (outside of Barnett) have been more of the Vickers/Owen Williams/Danny O'Brien/Corey Vereen/Latroy Lewis mold or have transferred (Dewayne Hendrix) or struggled to stay healthy and/or in shape (Tuttle/Phillips/KMac).


If Strip was 3 deep with former 4* and 5* guys who all had NFL measureables, I'm sure most of us would be calling him a top 5 DL coach. I don't think he's an elite DL coach by any means, but I do think he's done fairly well with the guys he's had to work with.

 

[BruinVol]

Eh I don't think DL coach is much of a problem. Comparing our guys to Bama's is just silly. It's a jimmies and joes sitution, not a coaching one.

We've signed 3 5 star or borderline 5 star DL since Butch came in. All are Sophomores and none have been all that healthy over the past 2 years. Meanwhile Bama's DL is stacked with guys who are mostly in their 3rd or 4th years and were former 4 and 5 star recruits (though I think they do have a freshman and/or sophomore 5* sprinkled in the two deep as well). They lost two DTs into the 2nd round of the draft last year and got better this year. That's fairly impressive for any unit.

Meanwhile the healthy guys Strip has been working with since he got here (outside of Barnett) have been more of the Vickers/Owen Williams/Danny O'Brien/Corey Vereen/Latroy Lewis mold or have transferred (Dewayne Hendrix) or struggled to stay healthy and/or in shape (Tuttle/Phillips/KMac).


If Strip was 3 deep with former 4* and 5* guys who all had NFL measureables, I'm sure most of us would be calling him a top 5 DL coach. I don't think he's an elite DL coach by any means, but I do think he's done fairly well with the guys he's had to work with.

I agree comparing to Bama makes no sense but comparing them to themselves is fine. That group a man for a man was better last year because they were put in better places to succeed IMO.

 

[InVOLuntary]

On this Hurd thing, one thing came to mind last night, I am sort of glad he left before he broke the all time rushing record. Would have been a shame to have had him surpass a few more VFLS and then leave as a disgruntled, miserable former player.

 

[Orange Studs]

SIAP Did you guys see Hurd's response he made on twitter? If so what did you take from it? Does it change anything on how feel about him? For me no.

 

[InVOLuntary]

SIAP Did you guys see Hurd's response he made on twitter? If so what did you take from it? Does it change anything on how feel about him? For me no.

No, to much "I" and "ME" in there. Reinforced my opinion on him. He needs to move on and take 74 with him.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I said this somewhere else but Tabor is too finesse. He constantly backs away from contact. I'll take Cam on my pro team way before Tabor.

Tabor definitely has the higher ceiling.


I think Cam is a bit more well rounded and has the better mindset and attitude to have a long NFL career though.

 

[JCP201]

SIAP Did you guys see Hurd's response he made on twitter? If so what did you take from it? Does it change anything on how feel about him? For me no.

The coaches know, the fans are guessing, but his team mates know the "rest of the story".

I also notice he didn't say a thing about them at all..

I appreciate what he did in previous years, but I think he was hurting more than helping this year.

 

[Orange Studs]

No, to much "I" and "ME" in there. Reinforced my opinion on him. He needs to move on and take 74 with him.

HAHA! I feel the same way. He could have waited until after the season and been more classy about it. So IF he gets drafted, is he going to not show up for that team if he doesn't like the offense they run?

 

[InVOLuntary]

The coaches know, the fans are guessing, but his team mates know the "rest of the story".

I also notice he didn't say a thing about them at all..

I appreciate what he did in previous years, but I think he was hurting more than helping this year.

Yes, it's a shame. Sometimes people have to screw up a time or two before they realize what the real problem is. Hopefully for his sake he can learn from this and turn it around.

One thing that I think could be a possible outcome is, he doesn't get it turned around and he doesn't Akers it in the pros and he forever blames Tennessee. Hopefully this doesn't happen.

 

[Chuckie]

IF Kamara comes back healthy we've got the best tandem in the country. That's this year and next year(if somehow he decides to come back). IMO

It would be amazing to have them both next year. But when I think about Kamara staying for another year, I think about Marcus Lattimore. Kamara needs to go get paid while he can. And I hope he's not rushing it trying to get back this week.

Is there any type of rule about when a player can have one of those insurance policies that cover career-ending injuries? I wonder if Kamara has one?

 

[Orange Studs]

The coaches know, the fans are guessing, but his team mates know the "rest of the story".

I also notice he didn't say a thing about them at all..

I appreciate what he did in previous years, but I think he was hurting more than helping this year.

Yes I agree. Looking at the reaction of the team Saturday and the fun they were having and coming out blowing away a team that they should have tells me a lot. And that is a good point about him not saying anything about his teammates. Just the coaches.

 

[BigZiti09]

Bruin, if you're complaining about the defense in its current state you need to look at the roster and the injury list.

We didn't have great DT depth to begin with and have lost our 3 best at that position.

We lost JRM and Sutton among others as well.

The defense at the beginning of the year was starting out slow but adjusted very very well.

We don't have the horses to be great at this point. We pitched a shut out Saturday just FYI.

 

[BruinVol]

It would be amazing to have them both next year. But when I think about Kamara staying for another year, I think about Marcus Lattimore. Kamara needs to go get paid while he can. And I hope he's not rushing it trying to get back this week.

Is there any type of rule about when a player can have one of those insurance policies that cover career-ending injuries? I wonder if Kamara has one?

Yes they can get one but for Kamara projection in the draft it won't be as high. His money to be made is getting to league and sticking for awhile.

 

[BruinVol]

Bruin, if you're complaining about the defense in its current state you need to look at the roster and the injury list.

We didn't have great DT depth to begin with and have lost our 3 best at that position.

We lost JRM and Sutton among others as well.

The defense at the beginning of the year was starting out slow but adjusted very very well.

We don't have the horses to be great at this point. We pitched a shut out Saturday just FYI.

My complaint is simple.

If the players on the field are good enough to play well AFTER adjustments have been made then they are good enough to play well at the START of games.

Shoop has done a great job of making adjustments but his team isn't ready to play in the 1st qt. His gameplanning has sucked.

It would be the other way around if injuries are an issue. The team would wear down due to depth issues.

 

[drvenner]

Didn't realize coaches were supposed to make decisions based on whether it would upset fans, and they should have seen enough of John Kelly to know what they had.

My point simply was to criticize the coaching staff for not trying to retain our 5-star RB who was on pace to break the career rushing record, is a case of hindsight being 20/20. They had not seen Kelly enough in real-game situations to "know what they had." Your original post was critical of them keeping him. My response was related to that. Would you have criticized them for letting them go? My guess is yes. See how it is to make rife speculation seem like fact?

 

[orangefreak21]

So who all is giving Stripling a pass as a coach?

Do you feel the D-line has performed up to their talent level? Outside of Barnett in particular because he's been a beast since he first hit campus.

I'm Watching Alabama D-lineman(trying to develop some new drills for the offseason) and they are so much stronger at the point technique wise than us it's crazy. Daron Payne and Allen are two I'm tracking in particular. I haven't seen that out of our line at all this year. Well outside of Barnett. And he trains with Chuck Smith in the offseason I think.

Looks like they're still passing 'round that deer antler spray

 

[BigZiti09]

My complaint is simple.

If the players on the field are good enough to play well AFTER adjustments have been made then they are good enough to play well at the START of games.

Shoop has done a great job of making adjustments but his team isn't ready to play in the 1st qt. His gameplanning has sucked.

It would be the other way around if injuries are an issue. The team would wear down due to depth issues.

Overall....We aren't as good at defense as we could be because we aren't any good at DT after losing our 3 best at that position and we are missing two of our best players and were missing 3 of our 4 best players for most of the year. Other guys have missed/missing time as well.

Shoop has had slow starts all year and that has been disappointing but at the same time he isn't playing with a full deck. Nowhere close to it.

I'm sure it's been a rude awakening for the fans who thought he was fielding the 85 bears at Vandy and PSU with a bunch of slow 3* kids because of some stats.

 

[RikidyBones]

My point simply was to criticize the coaching staff for not trying to retain our 5-star RB who was on pace to break the career rushing record, is a case of hindsight being 20/20. They had not seen Kelly enough in real-game situations to "know what they had." Your original post was critical of them keeping him. My response was related to that. Would you have criticized them for letting them go? My guess is yes. See how it is to make rife speculation seem like fact?

Hindsight is 20/20. Life, unfortunately, is not. I don't blame the coaching staff at all. Butch is on the warm seat for me at the moment but not for the Hurd situation.

 

[Kristy*]

No, to much "I" and "ME" in there. Reinforced my opinion on him. He needs to move on and take 74 with him.

Agree. He blames the non-disclosure of injuries that shouldn't have been disclosed. :wacko: And he says he knew the scheme wasn't a fit but is leaving in part due to it. :wacko: He wants to be 'showcased' instead of a team member. And he makes no excuse for quitting mid-season (not that there would be a good one). I personally think he would have served himself better to stay quiet. As it is, I have little respect for him.

 

[Orange Studs]

So BB isn't happy with the DB development. Same with LB and now with the DL and I agree with all of it but there is one person in charge of all of those areas that is supposed to be putting a plan together for all to succeed. That isn't happening like it should.

Well if BB says it, it has to be true, right? What are we going to do, BB isn't happy?