Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXIX

[AAVFL]

Depends on how the games are played.

I don't believe in that. If it's a loss no matter by 1 or 10 it's a loss. Moral victories are for losers. I myself would not see progress, maybe minimum given we beat FL and GA, and would think next year he would have to show more than just winning the east and getting to Atl. The east is so bad he needs to start beating teams from the west.

 

[Rishvol]

Nick Saban doesn't have anything on Ken Sparks

 

[AAVFL]

Winning the east for the first time in 10 seasons have to count for something.

It's some but man the east is terrible. What good is it going to serve if the winner of the east is just a tune up game for the west playoff team.

 

[jspvol76]

I don't believe in that. If it's a loss no matter by 1 or 10 it's a loss. Moral victories are for losers. I myself would not see progress, maybe minimum given we beat FL and GA, and would think next year he would have to show more than just winning the east and getting to Atl. The east is so bad he needs to start beating teams from the west.

Oh well.

 

[The Breakerboy]

The coaches aren't always right, but I question anyone who thinks they have more information than the coaches and staff.

Player decisions go through position coaches, coordinators, and the head coach. Let's not forget all the administrative personnel, grad assistants, and QC guys giving input. I imagine group captains also give input.

I don't think watching games, high school highlights, and maybe a few snippets of practice is enough to warrant feeling like our opinions should be gospel.

Again, coaches get things wrong all the time, but to be so self-assured in our opinions with our tiny fragments of information seems naive to me. Voicing one's opinion is not only fine, it's expected on a message board. I just think it should also involve a little bit of humility and self-awareness.

Obviously, my opinion is not the norm.

Self awareness to see obvious stuff huh?

Byrd dominated the All-American game at CB. We have a NEED at CB not slot WR. We don't use the slot so are they imagining something?

Jennings is Needed on offense. But he's still a better DB prospect. IMO And would probably have a bigger impact on defense than our offense.

Evan Berry not being shifty is hilarious. Watch him on his return versus Alabama last year. Also if Hurd can play RB with success in this system I think Berry would be more than fine. Give him a crease and it's on. He doesn't need 10 yards to get up to speed like some of you think.

 

[The Breakerboy]

Griffin also missed the tackle in the hole on the next long KY TD run. The FF was big though.

Kelly missed tackles and didn't help over the top all game.

 

[AAVFL]

Oh well.

Imagine if Florida would actually play a difficult schedule there wouldn't be a team ranked from the east and the last couple years have shown our division is really down. I think we are a good team right now not great but not bad like we used to be.

Hopefully with all the experience the young guns are getting we will progress next year cause injuries and lack of experience and depth have really showed.

 

[The Breakerboy]

I agree with a lot of this.

I will say that I think Byrd to WR made some sense at the time the decision was made. Coming into the year, we had Sutton/Martin/Moseley/Foreman at CB, with Buchanan impressing in camp. That looks pretty good, especially since Foreman has had a solid year aside from a couple of very visible blunders. But Sutton and Foreman both spent significant time injured and Martin's head came off. Now you're trotting Moseley and Buchanan out against the other team's best WRs, which is a nightmare and was never the plan. So while I wouldn't have wanted Byrd moved to WR personally, I think that decision was at least defensible and has been exposed in hindsight because of extreme circumstances.

I agree with your stance on Warrior - yes, we'd have to live with some mistakes, but it's not like Kelly and Abernathy are setting a high standard at the position. Kelly lacks speed, Abernathy plays soft, and both blow plenty of assignments on their own. Sidenote: Kelly looked very athletic as a freshman. What happened? Put on too much muscle?

I'd love to hear an unvarnished explanation from the coaches on why Berry doesn't play offense. He's IMO a very average safety whose speed is offset by his slow instincts and he's not nearly as physical on defense as he is with the ball in his hands. What does he lack on offense that they're looking for?

As for Phillips, my impression was that he moved inside due to emergency. I expect him to move back to the edge after the season, especially since our two starting ends are gone.

Kelly and McDowell had their athleticism compromised by a bad S&C coach. No way you let them get that bulky. He wasn't paying attention to all his athletes. Those two guys in particular should've been put on a strict diet during the Summer and tested every two weeks to make sure they weren't too slow for their positions. You rarely see an Alabama or LSU player get too Bulky for their position. This is unacceptable from a S&C coach at this level. IMO

 

[bignewt]

I think we were going to start using him more, but then Kamara.

Also lost for season with knee injury.

 

[VolsnCards5]

Kelly and McDowell had their athleticism compromised by a bad S&C coach. No way you let them get that bulky. He wasn't paying attention to all his athletes. Those two guys in particular should've been put on a strict diet during the Summer and tested every two weeks to make sure they weren't too slow for their positions. You rarely see an Alabama or LSU player get too Bulky for their position. This is unacceptable from a S&C coach at this level. IMO

So, is it the fault of the current S&C guy? Or the last guy? Or both

Either way, this is another issue I have with CEO butch.

 

[jspvol76]

Also lost for season with knee injury.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I agree with a lot of this.

I will say that I think Byrd to WR made some sense at the time the decision was made. Coming into the year, we had Sutton/Martin/Moseley/Foreman at CB, with Buchanan impressing in camp. That looks pretty good, especially since Foreman has had a solid year aside from a couple of very visible blunders. But Sutton and Foreman both spent significant time injured and Martin's head came off. Now you're trotting Moseley and Buchanan out against the other team's best WRs, which is a nightmare and was never the plan. So while I wouldn't have wanted Byrd moved to WR personally, I think that decision was at least defensible and has been exposed in hindsight because of extreme circumstances.

I agree with your stance on Warrior - yes, we'd have to live with some mistakes, but it's not like Kelly and Abernathy are setting a high standard at the position. Kelly lacks speed, Abernathy plays soft, and both blow plenty of assignments on their own. Sidenote: Kelly looked very athletic as a freshman. What happened? Put on too much muscle?

I'd love to hear an unvarnished explanation from the coaches on why Berry doesn't play offense. He's IMO a very average safety whose speed is offset by his slow instincts and he's not nearly as physical on defense as he is with the ball in his hands. What does he lack on offense that they're looking for?

As for Phillips, my impression was that he moved inside due to emergency. I expect him to move back to the edge after the season, especially since our two starting ends are gone.

I also agreed with the decision to put Byrd at receiver. Would not surprise me if they move him to CB in the offseason or if he plays both ways. We just have to find a way to put our best players on the field and he clearly is one. I hope you're right about Phillips

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Kelly and McDowell had their athleticism compromised by a bad S&C coach. No way you let them get that bulky. He wasn't paying attention to all his athletes. Those two guys in particular should've been put on a strict diet during the Summer and tested every two weeks to make sure they weren't too slow for their positions. You rarely see an Alabama or LSU player get too Bulky for their position. This is unacceptable from a S&C coach at this level. IMO

I hope Butch goes out and spends the money and gets the best dang S&C coach available. I don't care if we have to buy a guy away from the NFL and spend a fortune. Something is clearly wrong with that area

 

[WriterVol]

Yeah, I'm not trying to say that I know more. I don't, obviously. However, I don't think anyone, even the coaches now, would disagree that Worley over Dobbs, Jumper over DK, Hurd over Kamara/Kelly and whatever that slow guys name was who started over Berry at KR was a mistake. This has been proven. I do think that assuming JJ would be the best safety on the team is too much because he hasn't played the position. He might be, but the coaches may have tried it in practice and it didn't work out for all we know. I do however think that finding a role for Berry on offense would have been better than him sitting on the bench the last two seasons and most of this one as well. That is still hard for me to understand

Even those hindsight starter decisions are mired by the fact that we don't know when the proverbial light came on. It's pretty easy to see who is the more athletic player, but that's not the whole picture. The know-how part is even harder for fans to see.

You never know what's keeping a guy out of the starter slot. Grades, playbook knowledge, run fits, coverage issues, instincts, catching up to the speed of the college game, reading defenses? I could list dozens more, and most of the time it isn't one of thing.

If there is one thing most coaches seem to like, it's consistency. Freshmen usually aren't the most consistent players. Coaches have to decide when a player is worth the risk. How many bone-headed plays will they make vs. big plays? Different coaches have different thresholds.

There are so many variables we don't even discuss because we have no way to know they even exist.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

Coaching staff basically wasted Kamara for 1.5 years.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Winning the east for the first time in 10 seasons have to count for something.

This. That's easy to sell as progress. When you can sell it along with an injury list that takes more than one piece of paper, then it's an easy sell as progress.

 

[butchna]

Coaching staff basically wasted Kamara for 1.5 years.

Actually agree. Kelly also.

 

[jspvol76]

If Kamara finishes the rest of the season strong, he will be drafted higher than Hurd. Think about that for a second.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

If Kamara finishes the rest of the season strong, he will be drafted higher than Hurd. Think about that for a second.

Would be awesome

 

[Aesius]

Coaching staff basically wasted Kamara for 1.5 years.

They didn't waste him last year, IMO. Hurd ran fine last year and picked up tough yards. First half of this year for sure, though.

Kelly is the true waste so far IMO. Barely played last year and barely played this year and may be the best of the three.

Bet Butch wishes he had helped Jalen pack his bags after the Outback Bowl.

 

[AV_12]

If Kamara finishes the rest of the season strong, he will be drafted higher than Hurd. Think about that for a second.

Already will.

 

[WriterVol]

Self awareness to see obvious stuff huh?

Byrd dominated the All-American game at CB. We have a NEED at CB not slot WR. We don't use the slot so are they imagining something?

Jennings is Needed on offense. But he's still a better DB prospect. IMO And would probably have a bigger impact on defense than our offense.

Evan Berry not being shifty is hilarious. Watch him on his return versus Alabama last year. Also if Hurd can play RB with success in this system I think Berry would be more than fine. Give him a crease and it's on. He doesn't need 10 yards to get up to speed like some of you think.

I wasn't commenting on any specific opinion. It was just a general statement that we aren't working with a full deck of information.

It was more a statement against concrete opinions and thinking coaches must be stupid or dumb if they don't see it our way, even in cases where it seems obvious to some or even most of us.

 

[butchna]

They didn't waste him last year, IMO. Hurd ran fine last year and picked up tough yards. First half of this year for sure, though.

Kelly is the true waste so far IMO. Barely played last year and barely played this year and may be the best of the three.

Bet Butch wishes he had helped Jalen pack his bags after the Outback Bowl.

In retrospect? Yes. Immediately after that bowl game? Hell no!

 

[therickbol]

Florida is decimated by injuries. Perhaps worse than us right now.

Not possible. Our injuries are obviously a result of our pitiful S&C staff and poor practice planning by CBJ. So now you are telling me that UF is borrowing our S&C staff and asking CBJ for his practice plans.....mind blown

 

[VolGee4]

They didn't waste him last year, IMO. Hurd ran fine last year and picked up tough yards. First half of this year for sure, though.

Kelly is the true waste so far IMO. Barely played last year and barely played this year and may be the best of the three.

Bet Butch wishes he had helped Jalen pack his bags after the Outback Bowl.

This is a very difficult situation. There is only one football. Fans want Dobbs to run and want to open up the passing game. There simply is not enough carries to go around, especially when you have the threat of the QB run like we do with Dobbs. If we just had a pro style passer, then maybe we have a discussion. But you can't get your two 5 star RB's in a rhythm with a third back. Kelly is the better back for our offense, but as long as Hurd was there, I think you have to play him. I agree that Butch wouldn't have fought hard to keep Hurd if he thought Kelly was this good. This should be like a Bama situation where a guy waits his turn, and we just had a situation where one of ours left the program.