Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[sjt18]

Yes, it is hystrionics. Moreover, it is not true. To imply, as you did, that we never win a recruiting battle is simply not true.

Where did I say or imply that? I "implied" that Jones simply isn't winning enough to secure the talent he needs to compete and ESPECIALLY since he tends to NOT coach talent up to potential.

To imply, as you did, that we only get players no D1 program wants is not true. I imagine you know that. I imagine acknowledging that twarts your rant before it starts. So I understand why you don't acknowledge it.

So basically, you "read between the lines" in a false way.... I must be wrong?

 

[butchna]

IIRC, two of the WR's have some issues. Payton has "work to do". I think I read the WR from E StL is an academic risk.

I don't know that you really say there's just that. Dooley left 5 guys better than anyone Jones has had. But on the whole, Jones has brought in more talent.

He simply has simply underachieved the potential of that talent in each year.

Honestly, you could be right. But we've heard that in some form for each of Jones 5 classes. Even if you give him a pass on the first year, he's only seemed to get the state's better players in the year he signed Hurd and Malone. I realize there's a catch-22 when it comes to investing time to recruit TN kids as opposed to ATL or FL. There aren't many football factory HS's in TN and developing pipelines with them hasn't happened even going back to Fulmer. So where do you invest your time?

That said, TN HSFB is improving and UT needs to somehow win more of those players and build pipelines to those schools and conferences.

That's another reason the subpar results this season matter so much. Had UT been in the championship game and even gotten a win in one of the Bama games.... they'd have gotten the attention of instate players. Regardless of anyone's willingness or ability to rationalize what happened, this season was a major setback for the program under Jones. If he DOESN'T overachieve this fall then it probably just becomes a matter of time. He won't be able to get enough talent.

Trey Smith and Ty Chandler suck...this just in. :unsure:

 

[sjt18]

After he declares a point, he'll bend heaven and earth to make it stick.

No. I simply don't spit opinions out without thinking them through first... and basing them on the facts I have. There's a big difference.

Declared that Butch has never upset a more talented team and when I brought up 2013 SC, he honestly posted that we were more talented. That 2013 Vols team that had a kicker outrun the fastest DB on a pro day. :blink:

I "honestly" looked at both rosters even before that game and recognized outside of a couple of star caliber players... UT had more talent and more depth of talent. This played out after those stars began to leave and Spurrier eventually gave up on winning with what was left.

Even if you give him that one.... that is the ONLY one.

 

[bignewt]

Screw marijuana lets just get them all hooked on painkillers!

-big pharm

 

[sjt18]

Trey Smith and Ty Chandler suck...this just in. :unsure:

That would be relevant.... if they were the only two talented players in the state that UT needed and wanted.

 

[walkenvol]

If your stock broker was losing money for you in a favorable market would you have to know for certain who the next guy was or would you fire him, put your money in the bank, and then find the next guy?

In short, if Jones is not meeting the standard then he should be fired. The replacement comes after.

If you were on an airplane and didn't like the job the pilot was doing, would you fire him without knowing who's going to land the plane?

 

[Vols4us]

My comments on coaching changes are this - replacing known mediocrity with unknowns that are probably mediocre will probably result in same. If there is an ability to replace the departing with proven, better replacements that should be done since 9-4 and losing to Vandy are not the goals.

A HC that hires a proven, strong replacement at an important position such as DC with Shoop, should have been prepared to replace the entire D staff and change the system to what the DC had been successful in doing with other programs. That didn't happen, which means he placed unreasonable expectations on his new hire that backfired this past season. Somewhat like the S&C. If you believe you are doing well in S&C, why change out Lawson and not replace him with better as well as why start letting the inmates run the asylum? That never works. As many, including me, have repeatedly posted - what he does from here in hiring staff will determine if he is successful and stays beyond a year or two.

 

[butchna]

Blah, Blah Blah... *pontificate* blah blah *my points mean something* blah blah

Read everything you say. Doesn't make it less prattle and pretentious. Your "standard" means jack! Nothing special about you...quit pretending. :hi:

 

[McGeesPub]

Sorry to interrupt, but Dan Brooks is retiring.

 

[unioncityvol]

what if we have an offense like 2016 and play defense like 2015 3rd down for what days? pretty good? cool

 

[sjt18]

I think John Oliver did a show on how you would be better off randomly picking a stock than going with a stock broker anyway. And football isn't stocks. And by calling Satterfield a PROVEN coach you would have to call Butch one as well before he came here, since they had very similar records in similar conferences. Point is Butch is the best guy for the job next year.

OK. Use your doctor, dentist, lawyer, plumber, electrician, baby sitter.... the point is you don't wait to fire someone who isn't doing their job until you have a replacement lined up.

There are differences between Satterfield and Jones... but Jones WAS proven to an extent and a risk as well. Satterfield would carry some risks since he has never coached a P5 program and while ASU is a very good program... the pressures are not close to the same.

That's kind of why I said there were risks associated with those coaches... and also why I typically avoid naming possible replacements since Jones defenders then use critiques of those guys as a means of diverting attention from Jones' failures and shortcomings.

Jones is going to be the coach in '17 unless he does something illegal or unethical to get fired. There are many reasons for that... and virtually no reasons to doubt it. But he needs to improve A LOT.

 

[sjt18]

If you were on an airplane and didn't like the job the pilot was doing, would you fire him without knowing who's going to land the plane?

Who will die if Jones is fired? Would you continue to fly on an airline whose pilots continually botched routine landings?

 

[butchna]

That would be relevant.... if they were the only two talented players in the state that UT needed and wanted.

Long way to the "nothing" narrative you spin. Your prostate too dry to urinate on Theo Jackson and Bumphus and Calbert? We didn't want Richardson or Richards, so your whole "lost the state" bull is built on Tee Higgins and Stevens...oh and Jacob Phillips. :hi:

 

[drvenner]

It is a slippery slope to be sure. I have long thought that the receipt of public assistance, such as welfare, should come with testing for drugs, tobacco, and alcohol. That is a much more complex issue though. If a student gets public funds to attend school they should have to obey the laws. I wouldn't be opposed to test them as well. This does get expensive which is why I prefer the government to stay out of stuff as much as possible. They tend to muck it all up.

I see your point about public funds, but most Tennessee athletes get their money from the VASF, and not from public funds. I could be wrong, but that does not make your point any less valid. They are being given a free ride to the University and they should obey the rules.

 

[butchna]

No. I simply don't spit opinions out without thinking them through first... and basing them on the facts I have. There's a big difference.



I "honestly" looked at both rosters even before that game and recognized outside of a couple of star caliber players... UT had more talent and more depth of talent. This played out after those stars began to leave and Spurrier eventually gave up on winning with what was left.

Even if you give him that one.... that is the ONLY one.

Closest you get to honest dialogue. "I didn't pull that out of my butt, but if I did it only got pulled out ONCE". :no:

 

[Catbone]

With no AD and pressure mounting quickly on Butch, I can see why we aren't getting any hires that are impressive.

 

[drvenner]

My comments on coaching changes are this - replacing known mediocrity with unknowns that are probably mediocre will probably result in same. If there is an ability to replace the departing with proven, better replacements that should be done since 9-4 and losing to Vandy are not the goals.

A HC that hires a proven, strong replacement at an important position such as DC with Shoop, should have been prepared to replace the entire D staff and change the system to what the DC had been successful in doing with other programs. That didn't happen, which means he placed unreasonable expectations on his new hire that backfired this past season. Somewhat like the S&C. If you believe you are doing well in S&C, why change out Lawson and not replace him with better as well as why start letting the inmates run the asylum? That never works. As many, including me, have repeatedly posted - what he does from here in hiring staff will determine if he is successful and stays beyond a year or two.

Are you saying that the all of the departing coaches have been mediocre? I disagree if you are speaking of Debord. Mahoney's lines have been mediocre, and Wells is unproven, but that does not mean he is probably mediocre. It is arguable that Stripling was definitely not mediocre and Hoke is an experienced DL coach (if we get him). We had no QB coach other than Sheridan, so almost anyone with QB coach experience should be an upgrade, in my opinion. (I am not excited about Canales, as he would have been fourth on the list of the ones known to have been interviewed, but he still should be an upgrade). I also agree that Shoop was handcuffed to some degree because he had no say in the defensive staff, and there have been rumblings of philosophical differences. I think almost anyone would be an upgrade to Martinez, so hopefully that change will happen. Thig's star is not shining as brightly as it once was, in my opinion, so I would be totally onboard with letting him go and allowing Shoop to pick his replacement.

 

[sjt18]

We should also see a difference in in-state recruiting with a relevant program. We are relevant again whether you think we underperformed or not. Much easier to pull in state guys when the program is relevant while they are in high school and the coaches have built relationships.

Can you show evidence of this? Do "relevant" programs blow their chance to play in the SEC CG by losing to a terrible USCe team then compound it by losing to an equally bad Vandy team to lose out on the Sugar Bowl? Wouldn't a P5 team have to at least play in a NYD 6 bowl within 10 years to be considered "relevant"?

Too many on the board are still not admitting the extent of injuries this year and just point to Vandy as how terrible we are. Losing JRM was huge...having an unhealthy Cam was huge. Losing Tuttle and McKenzie was huge. Biggest mistake Butch made was pandering to Hurd instead of telling him to shape up or ship out earlier.

Who hasn't admitted that the extraordinary injuries contributed to losses.... even though UT STILL should have beaten Vandy and USCe badly? What too many on the board won't acknowledge is that when having higher than average injuries for 3 straight years holds a team back.... the HC is responsible for not recognizing and solving the causes.

Look at Boulware and Foster the other night. Basically what we lost by losing JRM. And I know someone will say but you should just plug in the next guy but it doesn't always doesn't work....will admit that have either missed on some in LB recruiting or development.

Another thing that often isn't acknowledged Jones' defenders... His recruiting and/or development at LB, OL, and CB simply hasn't been good. You could probably make a case that poor play at LB and CB contributed to playcalling that put DL's at greater risks or asked them to do too much.

 

[sjt18]

Closest you get to honest dialogue. "I didn't pull that out of my butt, but if I did it only got pulled out ONCE". :no:

:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

You criticizing someone over "honest dialogue". That's good.lol:

 

[butchna]

:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

You criticizing someone over "honest dialogue". That's good.lol:

I've had plenty. Mysteriously none with you. Guess when you're right all the time, the rest of us should just learn to rubber stamp your declarations. :good!:

 

[JohnD13]

:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

You criticizing someone over "honest dialogue". That's good.lol:

Quit derailing all these player threads with your crap

 

[VOL-uh-tile]

What happened to all those hand drawn pictures we used to send recruits, it seemed like they liked them. Actually we used to do a lot of things in the 2015 cycle that I don't see anymore. Were there recruiting rules changes?

 

[BigZiti09]

Wasn't it two years ago that auburn reconfigured their staff and had this all star coaching staff that got Malzahn onto the hot seat heading into this past season?

 

[barrylee]

Quit derailing all these player threads with your crap

This!

 

[Fingers]

SIAP, Dan Wolken trolling.