Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[VolsDoc81TX]

Zeal for truth sir, not superiority. This has nothing to do with me

Oh, it really does. You just don't realize it.

All that you are arguing about is opinions.
The only truth is Jesus. Truly believe and the verbage is irrelevant.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Many of the younger generation believe that science can explain away religion. They think that if they can find a scientific reason for a phenomenon they can disprove the existence of God and free our world of the scourge of religion. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive to one another. The idea that even one complex species could exist on this perfectly placed planet with all the necessary components to sustain it without an intelligent designer behind it is almost laughable. Some scientists have calculated that the odds of life forming naturally, even the most simple organisms, is 1 in 10 to the 40,000th power. Basically, even if you put all the matter in the universe together in one big soup, it still would not be able to naturally create even the most simple life. If we stop to think about how complicated life is on this planet and the enormous number of species and the complexity of the eco-systems, it is impossible to consider that there was not an intelligent designer behind the whole thing.

Now this is something that I can totally agree with.

A Nobel Laureate in medicine said that he was an atheist until he found two cancer cures in plants from the Amazon rain forest.
Sorry that I can't quote the scripture, but he said that God told us that everything we need is here on Earth.
The physician scientist then said it is our job to find it and put it to good use.

A prime example: Elavil is a man made anti-depressant. The exact molecular chemical of Elavil is found naturally occurring in St. John's wort. A plant...
Amazing to contemplate.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

An old minister who was a mentor of my fathers used to tell us all the time when we were young "You have to get it for yourself, there is going to come a time when you can't lean on Mama and Daddy's belief anymore..You're faith is going to be tested. The world is going to move farther and farther from God, till you will suffer ridicule, and persecution and be called evil for your beliefs in this country. They will blame faith for all the worlds sins"...I really never thought I would see it, but it is happening. Question away then, You aren't doing anything new, man has questioned Gods wisdom and his rules since the garden.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Oh, it really does. You just don't realize it.

All that you are arguing about is opinions.
The only truth is Jesus. Truly believe and the verbage is irrelevant.

Which Jesus? The Islamic Jesus? The Mormon Jesus? The Docetic Jesus? The Cerinthian Jesus? The Gnostic Jesus? The Joel Osteen Jesus? The Jesus of Protestantism who sacrifice was perfect, that propitiated the sins of all who would believe in Him once and for all? Or the Jesus of Catholicism whose death wasn't enough to cover sins, for His followers must offer Him as a propitiaton again and again every week through Mass, participate in the 7 sacraments of the church, and then still spend time in Purgatory until they finally are holy enough to enter heaven? Which Jesus are we to believe in? Which Jesus is the truth?

That's why truth matters. Truth about who Jesus is, what He taught, what those who knew Him, who walked with Him, talked with Him, witnesses Him (1 John 1:1-3), even post resurrection taught. It's why everything else bring said above is impossible. We know the Deists are wrong because of Christ. We can know the truth. I can think of nothing more loving than for God to say hey, there is a truth, but you just can't know it. You have to guess, and you'll figure it out when you die. But by then it'll be too late! Sorry! But God hasn't done that. He has given us 66 books proclaiming His truth. He has given us the teachings of Jesus Himself, the teachings of His apostles, to make sure that we have the truth. We can know the truth. If we want to know Jesus, we can only do that through the Scriptures (John 20:31).

 

[bignewt]

And of course there's always the possibility that there is an intelligent designer who washed his hands from it all once he set the whole shindig in motion. Or just considered our universe like a small side project or something.

Or that the universe is just an atom in a marble as Men In Black taught us.

 

[Rishvol]

Now this is something that I can totally agree with.

A Nobel Laureate in medicine said that he was an atheist until he found two cancer cures in plants from the Amazon rain forest.
Sorry that I can't quote the scripture, but he said that God told us that everything we need is here on Earth.
The physician scientist then said it is our job to find it and put it to good use.

A prime example: Elavil is a man made anti-depressant. The exact molecular chemical of Elavil is found naturally occurring in St. John's wort. A plant...
Amazing to contemplate.

Main reason I love biology. So many things left to find but for some reason everyone thinks everything is already found.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Which Jesus? The Islamic Jesus? The Mormon Jesus? The Docetic Jesus? The Cerinthian Jesus? The Gnostic Jesus? The Joel Osteen Jesus? The Jesus of Protestantism who sacrifice was perfect, that propitiated the sins of all who would believe in Him once and for all? Or the Jesus of Catholicism whose death wasn't enough to cover sins, for His followers must offer Him as a propitiaton again and again every week through Mass, participate in the 7 sacraments of the church, and then still spend time in Purgatory until they finally are holy enough to enter heaven? Which Jesus are we to believe in? Which Jesus is the truth?

That's why truth matters. Truth about who Jesus is, what He taught, what those who knew Him, who walked with Him, talked with Him, witnesses Him (1 John 1:1-3), even post resurrection taught. It's why everything else bring said above is impossible. We know the Deists are wrong because of Christ. We can know the truth. I can think of nothing more loving than for God to say hey, there is a truth, but you just can't know it. You have to guess, and you'll figure it out when you die. But by then it'll be too late! Sorry! But God hasn't done that. He has given us 66 books proclaiming His truth. He has given us the teachings of Jesus Himself, the teachings of His apostles, to make sure that we have the truth. We can know the truth. If we want to know Jesus, we can only do that through the Scriptures (John 20:31).

This is exactly what I am talking about.
I said that I believe in Jesus. I try to be the best that I can and follow a Christian path.

Here you immediately condemn me because you have a superior path.

Even though we are on different paths, they can both lead us to the same destination.

You have great knowledge of the history and politics of religion. Use your power for good.

I will leave you with this:

Judge Not Lest Thou Be Judged.

I am sure that you can tell me it's chapter and verse, but do you understand it's portent as it applies to you?

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Or that the universe is just an atom in a marble as Men In Black taught us.

As components of an atom, it's easy to tell on here who are Neutrons, Electrons (negative charged), and Protons (positive charged)

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Main reason I love biology. So many things left to find but for some reason everyone thinks everything is already found.

The more I know, the less I understand....
Jimmy Buffett.

 

[delfonic]

I'm a free neutron. All the Volnation physicists out there know what I mean.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

It always amazes me that people throw out that quote without reading all the way through. Just a few verses later Jesus says "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you"...There is a big difference then in judging and having good judgement. He tells us to be careful with each.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

This is exactly what I am talking about.
I said that I believe in Jesus. I try to be the best that I can and follow a Christian path.

Here you immediately condemn me because you have a superior path.

Even though we are on different paths, they can both lead us to the same destination.

You have great knowledge of the history and politics of religion. Use your power for good.

I will leave you with this:

Judge Not Lest Thou Be Judged.

I am sure that you can tell me it's chapter and verse, but do you understand it's portent as it applies to you?

Nowhere in my comments did I condemn you. I have asked you many questions tho. You say that you believe in Jesus, I am saying that many people believe in a Jesus. The truth is however, that there is one Jesus. Who is He and how do we know? Why do you believe that we are on different paths but will end up in the same place? What gives you this confidence? Where did you learn that from?

And yes, I am aware of Matthew 7:1, the most misinterpreted and missaplied verse I the entire New Testament and it has absolutely nothing to do with what I have done in this forum. If so, the Apostles all broke that commandment every day of their lives. As did Jesus.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

it always amazes me that people throw out that quote without reading all the way through. Just a few verses later jesus says "give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you"...there is a big difference then in judging and having good judgement. He tells us to be careful with each.

👀

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Now this is something that I can totally agree with.

A Nobel Laureate in medicine said that he was an atheist until he found two cancer cures in plants from the Amazon rain forest.
Sorry that I can't quote the scripture, but he said that God told us that everything we need is here on Earth.
The physician scientist then said it is our job to find it and put it to good use.

A prime example: Elavil is a man made anti-depressant. The exact molecular chemical of Elavil is found naturally occurring in St. John's wort. A plant...
Amazing to contemplate.

The thing that kills me about the whole science vs religion is that they serve two different purposes to begin with. Anybody who sees things fundamentally as "science bs religion" is, IMO, looking at it all from the wrong perspective.


All science is concerned with is finding the best (or often, the least bad) explanation for natural phenomena using experimentation and data taking. In theory, it's a never ending process which strides to always be self improving and looking for better explanations (though I think there are some strong arguments to be made that the current academic systems don't do a great job at that because scientists and professors are often over-incentivized to make a "new" discovery or breakthrough instead of double or triple checking some other guy's work...but anyway I'm rambling now).

Religion serves a completely different purpose than science. By definition, it's concerned with the supernatural and things that largely cannot or don't need to be proven. Furthermore, religion has moral and social components which science is unconcerned with.


You can't use science to teach lessons about morality or bring about a cohesive community. You can't use religion to design a vehicle to send humans to space. Sure sometimes the two clash on some things like explanations of where exactly we came from, but the two aren't isometrically opposed by any means.

 

[bignewt]

I'm a free neutron. All the Volnation physicists out there know what I mean.

I think I am a neutrino. :shades:

 

[Rishvol]

The thing that kills me about the whole science vs religion is that they serve two different purposes to begin with. Anybody who sees things fundamentally as "science bs religion" is, IMO, looking at it all from the wrong perspective.


All science is concerned with is finding the best (or often, the least bad) explanation for natural phenomena using experimentation and data taking. In theory, it's a never ending process which strides to always be self improving and looking for better explanations (though I think there are some strong arguments to be made that the current academic systems don't do a great job at that because scientists and professors are often over-incentivized to make a "new" discovery or breakthrough instead of double or triple checking some other guy's work...but anyway I'm rambling now).

Religion serves a completely different purpose than science. By definition, it's concerned with the supernatural and things that largely cannot or don't need to be proven. Furthermore, religion has moral and social components which science is unconcerned with.


You can't use science to teach lessons about morality or bring about a cohesive community. You can't use religion to design a vehicle to send humans to space. Sure sometimes the two clash on some things like explanations of where exactly we came from, but the two aren't isometrically opposed by any means.

I've been out of the loop the past couple of days so it might have already been answered but Darth, if you don't mind me asking, what is your profession?

 

[WhiteOakVol]

Hey guys, I have been around VolNation for about a year now, and do not post that much. I love recruiting, and spend the majority of my time in the recruiting forum.
I am also a long time Christian, but I find that the closer I get to God, the farther away from Him I find that I am, meaning I am not as smart and as close as I want/need to be!
I believe the whole Bible is the inspired Word of God, and every answer to every problem in the world can be found there.
2 Timothy 2:15, tells us that we need to be a student of the Bible, rightly divided, not just picking out verses to support our position.
Jesus told us that the greatest commandment, is to love God with our whole being, and also, to love our brother as much as we love ourselves!
We are and were created for God's pleasure. Our whole existence should be to glorify Him with all our being.
Jesus should be our ultimate example of right living! And I believe Christ, when He says that he is the only way to God!

I have enjoyed all the discussions, and feel that healthy debate, free from insults and name-calling, is a very good thing! :good!:

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

This is exactly what I am talking about.
I said that I believe in Jesus. I try to be the best that I can and follow a Christian path.

Here you immediately condemn me because you have a superior path.

Even though we are on different paths, they can both lead us to the same destination.

You have great knowledge of the history and politics of religion. Use your power for good.

I will leave you with this:

Judge Not Lest Thou Be Judged.

I am sure that you can tell me it's chapter and verse, but do you understand it's portent as it applies to you?

Hey doc. Not here to argue. Just want to say that Matthew 7:1 (do not judge so that you will not be judged) is always thrown out there, but no one wants to read the very next verse and following verses. Verse 2 says "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Jesus goes on to talk about removing the log from your eye, so you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. So, is Jesus saying to not judge? Doesn't appear that way. He is saying to make sure to self-examine yourself, and remove any sins from your own life, then you will be able to effectively help your brother/sister to remove sins from his/her life. Therefore, this is talking about judging, but it's righteous judgment that is based on God's word and nothing else, and certainly not based on what I think or feel.

An example: you are committing adultery against your wife. I know about it and feel it is my place to show you it's sinful. However, I'm an alcoholic. How can I effectively come to you and point out your sin you are practicing, when I haven't cleaned up the sin I am practicing? You will it listen to me. However, if I correct my sin, then come to you about yours, will you be more willing to listen to me? Most likely. This is a righteous judgment, because God clearly condemns those sins. Hope this makes sense.

 

[WallyBalls]

Anybody got any thoughts on the Knox Co. mayoral race? I find JJ Jones absolutely annoying so I thought I'd ask.


(Not to derail the primary discussion, but I think we can handle sidebars)

 

[bignewt]

Hey doc. Not here to argue. Just want to say that Matthew 7:1 (do not judge so that you will not be judged) is always thrown out there, but no one wants to read the very next verse and following verses. Verse 2 says "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Jesus goes on to talk about removing the log from your eye, so you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. So, is Jesus saying to not judge? Doesn't appear that way. He is saying to make sure to self-examine yourself, and remove any sins from your own life, then you will be able to effectively help your brother/sister to remove sins from his/her life. Therefore, this is talking about judging, but it's righteous judgment that is based on God's word and nothing else, and certainly not based on what I think or feel.

An example: you are committing adultery against your wife. I know about it and feel it is my place to show you it's sinful. However, I'm an alcoholic. How can I effectively come to you and point out your sin you are practicing, when I haven't cleaned up the sin I am practicing? You will it listen to me. However, if I correct my sin, then come to you about yours, will you be more willing to listen to me? Most likely. This is a righteous judgment, because clearly condemns those sins. Hope this makes sense.

...but we all sin so it is impossible to be completely free of sin and point out someone else's by that rationale.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I've been out of the loop the past couple of days so it might have already been answered but Darth, if you don't mind me asking, what is your profession?

Currently working in Japan for the government as a "Coordinator of International Relations." Basically I do a mix of translation/interpretation work, helping interface between Japanese governent workers and international guests/clients/etc, helping plan out exchange programs, and occasionally giving crash course English classes to government employees.


The pay ain't great, but its enjoyable enough, the hours aren't bad, and I get to live in the biggest metropolitan area in the world surrounded by beautiful women just dying to find a tall foreign guy who speaks their language...so it's a fair trade off I'd say


Still, I'm currently trying to find an agreeable job over here in the private sector for better pay. But businesses here expect you to give your life over to the company and I'm not sure how much I want the extra money if I'm never going to get time off work to enjoy it anyway. If I don't find something I like better than my current job in the next year or two I'll probably head home and try to find a somewhat similar job for a Japanese business or consulate.

 

[Glitch]

[citation needed]

Here is where I read it. The citation from the scientists that made that statement is contained within.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/67884-what-are-the-odds-of-life-evolving-by-chance-alone/

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

...but we all sin so it is impossible to be completely free of sin and point out someone else's by that rationale.

Big difference in stumbling and committing a sin, asking for forgiveness, then trying your best to not do it again versus practicing/living in a sin without repentance.

 

[edyeary]

Without God there is no science.

 

[InVOLuntary]

It wasn't my intention to call people less intelligent or stupid old folks at all.

But it's a fact that non believers are underrepresented in this country. And, especially in the more religious parts of the country, people are hesitant to out themselves as non believers because of the connotations that go along with it. I know a lot of people who consider themselves atheist/agnostic/humanist/etc, but mostly keep it to themselves because of the backlash they know they'll get from family memebers if they out themselves.


It's not so much "I'm waiting for all the stupid religious folk to die" as it is "Man, my mom/grandma/etc might cry herself to sleep every night if she knew I'm agnostic/atheist/humanist/etc. I don't wanna cause her the grief of having to worry about my eternal soul all the time (or take the tongue lashing from other family members that might go along with that), so I'll just keep it to myself for now."


The non-religious are currently estimated to be around 16% of the US. But there's no way to calculate the number of closeted non-religious ATM, which is probably not insignificant. A few decades from now when millennial are the ones filling out census forms, it wouldn't surprise me if that number is somewhere around 30-40% is all I'm saying.

I didn't think atheist, agnostic, whatever needed representation. The problem here is you don't really have to prove anything, you just have to disprove what many others believe to be true. You seem to be cheering for more people to not believe. Also, you may not mean to come across that way but you do. Jmo