Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#9,202
#9,202
OGbabyaviVol said:
Big difference in stumbling and committing a sin, asking for forgiveness, then trying your best to not do it again versus practicing/living in a sin without repentance.
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So there are levels of sin? Hmmm...

edit: also in your example you use alcoholism as a sin. Most feel that is a disease. My point is your argument that it is ok to tell others to shape up because you live a righteous life is not ever going to go over well and will never be an effective means of helping others.
 
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#9,205
#9,205
Now invol, don't go calling people names you might offend.

Not me I am incapable but some might...especially in terms of religion.
 
#9,206
#9,206
bignewt said:
So there are levels of sin? Hmmm...

edit: also in your example you use alcoholism as a sin. Most feel that is a disease. My point is your argument that it is ok to tell others to shape up because you live a righteous life is not ever going to go over well and will never be an effective means of helping others.
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You completely misinterpreted my post. How does what I said come across as there are levels of sin? I said there's a big difference in stumbling and committing a sin versus practicing a sin.

And alcoholism is a sin. If it is a disease, then the person never had a choice as to whether he/she drank or not. Initially the person drank some, then drank more, and more, and more until it gets to the point they are drinking all the time. All of that is a choice, not a disease.
 
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#9,208
#9,208
Darth_Shiveman said:
Currently working in Japan for the government as a "Coordinator of International Relations." Basically I do a mix of translation/interpretation work, helping interface between Japanese governent workers and international guests/clients/etc, helping plan out exchange programs, and occasionally giving crash course English classes to government employees.


The pay ain't great, but its enjoyable enough, the hours aren't bad, and I get to live in the biggest metropolitan area in the world surrounded by beautiful women just dying to find a tall foreign guy who speaks their language...so it's a fair trade off I'd say :)


Still, I'm currently trying to find an agreeable job over here in the private sector for better pay. But businesses here expect you to give your life over to the company and I'm not sure how much I want the extra money if I'm never going to get time off work to enjoy it anyway. If I don't find something I like better than my current job in the next year or two I'll probably head home and try to find a somewhat similar job for a Japanese business or consulate.
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It really does sound like a fun little job (not sarcastic). I would love to travel to Japan and tour the while country. I've been fascinated with its ecology because it, Korea, and east China is so similar to ours. Four season areas are so rare in the world it makes me glad I live in one.
 
#9,209
#9,209
Alcoholism != Lacking willpower to consume alcohol in moderation

Two different things. Related, but different.
 
#9,210
#9,210
OGbabyaviVol said:
You completely misinterpreted my post. How does what I said come across as there are levels of sin? I said there's a big difference in stumbling and committing a sin versus practicing a sin.

And alcoholism is a sin. If it is a disease, then the person never had a choice as to whether he/she drank or not. Initially the person drank some, then drank more, and more, and more until it gets to the point they are drinking all the time. All of that is a choice, not a disease.
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So many grey areas in there I can't even begin. As for alcoholism being a sin, I do not know if I agree. Because one could "stumble" and have a drink. If they do not have the capacity to be able to stop they become an alcoholic, which is a disease in my mind, or at least addiction is.

My point is "those in glass houses should not throw stones." We all sin, you cannot say one is a stumble and one is not. Leave it up to the individual to find their answers. Pushing it or acting superior has a negative effect on your intentions.
 
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#9,211
#9,211
bignewt said:
So there are levels of sin? Hmmm...

edit: also in your example you use alcoholism as a sin. Most feel that is a disease. My point is your argument that it is ok to tell others to shape up because you live a righteous life is not ever going to go over well and will never be an effective means of helping others.
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I didn't see where BabyAvi said anything about levels of sin. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. His point was that there is a difference between (a person that knows that they have sinned and has repented of that sin an is trying to live their life without committing that sin again) and (a person that has sinned and continues to engage in that sin knowingly) Sin can often be difficult to overcome as there are many things that are attractive about sin.

Your specific example of alcoholism can be classified under the sin of gluttony or overindulgence.

Galatians 5:19-21
"19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Drinking alcohol is not strictly prohibited from anything I have seen or read, but drunkenness or overindulgence is certainly looked upon as a sin. However, it is made clear that sin is sin is sin and that lying will separate us from God just as much as murder. That is why Jesus did what he did. Nobody has lived a pure enough life to be worthy of the glory of Heaven on our own. We need an intermediary and that is where Jesus comes in. He was blameless and without sin during his time on earth. He was killed to satisfy our sin debt to God regardless of what our sins are. Humans may say, "Well, I have only lied a few times and I looked at a little porn from time to time. I have been pretty good. Surely, God will overlook those indiscretions." And he will, if you confess that Jesus came to earth and paid for those sins will His death as a blameless sacrifice for them.
 
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#9,212
#9,212
Yeah Glitch I get all of that, our discussion is where babyavi was taking the subsequent verses after the "Judge not." He is arguing that if you repent your sins or "stumble" every once in a while you can then preach or point out others sins to them and that is what you are supposed to do.

I am just saying wow, lots of ins and outs and what have yous in that. I would say stay out of others peoples ish and do your best with what you gotta handle.
 
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#9,213
#9,213
I agree that we all sin. However, some enjoy their sin of choice, and then choose to continue in it.
Here is my take on things, we will not be sent to Hell because we are sinners, again, because we all are sinners to one degree or another.
But, instead, we will not go to Heaven, if we do not admit that we are sinners, and ask Jesus to forgive our sins, and become our Savior!
No amount of good works that we can do, can accomplish this!
Instead, I try and point people to Jesus! If they will develop a relationship with Jesus, and read and study His Word, as they grow in their faith, HE will show them their sinful ways!
 
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#9,214
#9,214
bignewt said:
Yeah Glitch I get all of that, our discussion is where babyavi was taking the subsequent verses after the "Judge not." He is arguing that if you repent your sins or "stumble" every once in a while you can then preach or point out others sins to them and that is what you are supposed to do.

I am just saying wow, lots of ins and outs and what have yous in that. I would say stay out of others peoples ish and do your best with what you gotta handle.
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That quote is often misused. Many people believe that it means we shouldn't point out another person's sin at all. However, if you read further Jesus says that you must first get your life in order so that you can better help your brother/sister that has stumbled. If you are constantly consuming to much alcohol and becoming drunk then how can you tell someone else that they shouldn't drink. Or if you are engaging in extra-marital affairs, how can you tell another that they should stop having an affair of their own? We are warned not to do that because the measure that we choose to use in our judgment of others will be used to judge our own actions. We must cease our own sins and follow Jesus' example before we can start pointing out the sins of others. Now, that is hard for many because breaking sins hold can be hard to do. However, who would have the better testimony for leading another to Christ:

1. A person that grew up and has never drank alcohol

2. A person that had struggled with alcoholism and addiction their whole life

Just because a person has sinned doesn't mean that they can't point out another's sins. If the only people that pointed out another's sins of alcoholism were people that had never had a drink then where would the power of the testimony come from. A person that has defeated a sin with the help of Jesus is a much stronger testament of God's power than someone that never committed that sin. God will use our sins to demonstrate His power over it when we allow him into our heart.

Matthew 7:1-5
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
 
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#9,216
#9,216
Glitch said:
That quote is often misused. Many people believe that it means we shouldn't point out another person's sin at all. However, if you read further Jesus says that you must first get your life in order so that you can better help your brother/sister that has stumbled. If you are constantly consuming to much alcohol and becoming drunk then how can you tell someone else that they shouldn't drink. Or if you are engaging in extra-marital affairs, how can you tell another that they should stop having an affair of their own? We are warned not to do that because the measure that we choose to use in our judgment of others will be used to judge our own actions. We must cease our own sins and follow Jesus' example before we can start pointing out the sins of others. Now, that is hard for many because breaking sins hold can be hard to do. However, who would have the better testimony for leading another to Christ:

1. A person that grew up and has never drank alcohol

2. A person that had struggled with alcoholism and addiction their whole life

Just because a person has sinned doesn't mean that they can't point out another's sins. If the only people that pointed out another's sins of alcoholism were people that had never had a drink then where would the power of the testimony come from. A person that has defeated a sin with the help of Jesus is a much stronger testament of God's power than someone that never committed that sin. God will use our sins to demonstrate His power over it when we allow him into our heart.

Matthew 7:1-5
7 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
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That is a great explanation, I just have an issue with witnessing and testifying they both irk me. If you found Jesus through some great struggle, great man, more power to you but I don't need to hear about it. Personal thing I guess, but pointing out another's sins is basically a mortal telling another mortal that I am right and you are wrong about why we are here, how to live and where we go when we die. Carry on my wayward son!
 
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#9,217
#9,217
InVOLuntary said:
I'm surprised you didn't go all baloney and report me. :)
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dcfef51302ef7c695cb3487272116db40c4ce15f429e8e383552a3b483b90d1b.jpg
 
#9,218
#9,218
bignewt said:
That is a great explanation, I just have an issue with witnessing and testifying they both irk me. If you found Jesus through some great struggle, great man, more power to you but I don't need to hear about it. Personal thing I guess, but pointing out another's sins is basically a mortal telling another mortal that I am right and you are wrong about why we are here, how to live and where we go when we die. Carry on my wayward son!
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Christians are called to give their testimony and witness to how God has saved them and blessed their lives. It brings glory to God and evidences the power that He has. If we did not give our testimony then many might not ever hear the good news of Jesus and not come to know Him. Besides, who doesn't like to hear how somebody was able to overcome a problem in their life and is now living well. Good news is rare these days according to most places we have to get our news from.
 
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#9,219
#9,219
Glitch said:
Christians are called to give their testimony and witness to how God has saved them and blessed their lives. It brings glory to God and evidences the power that He has. If we did not give our testimony then many might not ever hear the good news of Jesus and not come to know Him. Besides, who doesn't like to hear how somebody was able to overcome a problem in their life and is now living well. Good news is rare these days according to most places we have to get our news from.
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Just me I guess.
 
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#9,220
#9,220
bignewt said:
So many grey areas in there I can't even begin. As for alcoholism being a sin, I do not know if I agree. Because one could "stumble" and have a drink. If they do not have the capacity to be able to stop they become an alcoholic, which is a disease in my mind, or at least addiction is.

My point is "those in glass houses should not throw stones." We all sin, you cannot say one is a stumble and one is not. Leave it up to the individual to find their answers. Pushing it or acting superior has a negative effect on your intentions.
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I have not pushed or acted superior to anything. I do fully believe alcoholism is a choice and is sinful. You make the choice to take the first drink and subsequent ones. Glitch has already pointed out the scripture in Galatians 5 stating drunkenness is sinful.

Unfortunately, I still don't think you grasp the concept of stumbling and committing a sin one time versus continually practicing and living in a sin, so I'll stop. Thanks for the discussion though.
 
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#9,222
#9,222
bignewt said:
Just me I guess.
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It is not just you, for sure. There are plenty of people who totally get turned off to all forms of religion when someone tries to witness to them. That is why I think that there are many ways to tell the story and to lead people to God. When I was much younger, if anyone tried to talk to me about Jesus, I turned away because I thought that they were trying to foist their beliefs on me. There are also some Christians who are terrible at this. I don't think that I am very good at it. I struggle still a good deal with my belief system and it has evolved a good deal in the last 20 years. There is no right or wrong way to try to get the message to people, though it is often extremely hard to figure out how to do it with some people.
 
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#9,223
#9,223
InVOLuntary said:
I didn't think atheist, agnostic, whatever needed representation. The problem here is you don't really have to prove anything, you just have to disprove what many others believe to be true. You seem to be cheering for more people to not believe. Also, you may not mean to come across that way but you do. Jmo
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Why wouldn't non believers need representation? To my knowledge they're the largest minority in the country without representation in congress.


I know I come across that way to some. It's a touchy subject and people don't like to hear that something they have faith in might be wrong. Just know that my intention isn't to mock or belittle. Just to have the dialogue/debate.
 
#9,224
#9,224
Rishvol said:
It really does sound like a fun little job (not sarcastic). I would love to travel to Japan and tour the while country. I've been fascinated with its ecology because it, Korea, and east China is so similar to ours. Four season areas are so rare in the world it makes me glad I live in one.
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Japanese people would love that quote lol they've built up a kind of mythology like they're the only country in the world with 4 seasons or something (even though it can be argued they've got 5 since there's a rainy season in early summer). I think they die a little inside anytime a foreigner tells them their country has four seasons too and just kinda shrugs it off like it's nothing special.


But yeah, I'm having fun with it. I get a lot of off time and have had chances to travel to other Asian countries for work/leisure as well, so I'm mostly content with it right now.
 
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