Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

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#20,526
#20,526
Geaux_Vols said:
It’s okay to acknowledge something doesn’t work the way it should on paper; doesn’t mean I prefer communism or naziism or anything else (I wish healthcare was socialized more than it is now, the advantages are pretty clear in a pandemic with 6m people losing their jobs and healthcare or whatever). The point is nothing is perfect and everything is open to critique, capitalism included. We can do that without name-calling, I would think.
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Notice I didn't call anyone or any group a name.
 
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#20,528
#20,528
Geaux_Vols said:
It’s okay to acknowledge something doesn’t work the way it should on paper; doesn’t mean I prefer communism or naziism or anything else (I wish healthcare was socialized more than it is now, the advantages are pretty clear in a pandemic with 6m people losing their jobs and healthcare or whatever). The point is nothing is perfect and everything is open to critique, capitalism included. We can do that without name-calling, I would think.
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The problem with the healthcare system now is that it is neither universal nor free market. Too heavily regulated by the feds, there is no real free market competition for services, and unlike any product that can be purchased in a free market, you don't know in advance the costs of what you are purchasing. Interestingly, in newer areas of surgery where we don't see such stringent regulations, such as laser eye surgery, there is actually competition among the practitioners, so we have seen the costs for such surgeries reduced dramatically over the last few years. I would prefer much less regulations than we have now.

I am not clear though on how a more socialized health system would have prevented a shutdown of the economy and job loss, as you seem to suggest that the current health system allowed.
 
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#20,529
#20,529
Crazy Ivan said:
The problem with the healthcare system now is that it is neither universal nor free market. Too heavily regulated by the feds, there is no real free market competition for services, and unlike any product that can be purchased in a free market, you don't know in advance the costs of what you are purchasing. Interestingly, in newer areas of surgery where we don't see such stringent regulations, such as laser eye surgery, there is actually competition among the practitioners, so we have seen the costs for such surgeries reduced dramatically over the last few years. I would prefer much less regulations than we have now.

I am not clear though on how a more socialized health system would have prevented a shutdown of the economy and job loss, as you seem to suggest that the current health system allowed.
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You’ve got it backwards; it wouldn’t have prevented anything, but uncoupling healthcare from employment status would have kept those 6m people who lost their jobs insured. One less crisis to deal with. I do think refusing to reopen the ACA exchanges for all those people is inhumane.
 
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#20,530
#20,530
Geaux_Vols said:
You’ve got it backwards; it wouldn’t have prevented anything, but uncoupling healthcare from employment status would have kept those 6m people who lost their jobs insured. One less crisis to deal with. I do think refusing to reopen the ACA exchanges for all those people is inhumane.
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agreed
 
#20,531
#20,531
Geaux_Vols said:
You’ve got it backwards; it wouldn’t have prevented anything, but uncoupling healthcare from employment status would have kept those 6m people who lost their jobs insured. One less crisis to deal with. I do think refusing to reopen the ACA exchanges for all those people is inhumane.
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Or maybe your original point wasn't quite as clear as intended as it read to me as if you were suggesting that the current healthcare system could not prevent job loss, so if I misread your intent then my bad.
 
#20,535
#20,535
Geaux_Vols said:
You’ve got it backwards; it wouldn’t have prevented anything, but uncoupling healthcare from employment status would have kept those 6m people who lost their jobs insured. One less crisis to deal with. I do think refusing to reopen the ACA exchanges for all those people is inhumane.
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People shouldn't rely on the government for their healthcare or a company. People should be responsible for their own healthcare. It's not anyone's responsibility to pay for another's healthcare.

Also, that Italian model for socialized medicine really worked well.
 
#20,536
#20,536
InVOLuntary said:
People shouldn't rely on the government for their healthcare or a company. People should be responsible for their own healthcare. It's not anyone's responsibility to pay for another's healthcare.

Also, that Italian model for socialized medicine really worked well.
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I mean, it’s the fundamental concept of insurance. Are you saying you would prefer to pay in full for every expenditure for your house, car, etc?

Italy has a world class healthcare system. That it was pushed to the brink by this pandemic says more about the virus than their healthcare system. It also really doesn’t have anything to do with who is covered and who isn’t, which is what I was talking about.
 
#20,537
#20,537
And they withheld care of the elderly. That's exactly what happens when you let government control of healthcare. It happens every time. Services are rationed. Our system has out performed all healthcare systems in the world.

I'm advocating everyone should pay their own health insurance. It's not my responsibility to pay for yours and it not your responsibility to pay for mine. If everyone took responsibility for their own healthcare prices would drop, and it would become more affordable.

I used to offer healthcare insurance for my employees. Obamacare ruined that. Couldn't secure a carrier. Was told to send employees to the exchange. Another way the .gov screwed the pooch.

I had an employee come into the office the other day asking whether we/me would offer health insurance again. I told him we'd look into it again but I asked him a question... I asked him if he'd rather have a $2/hr raise or healthcare policy. He thought for a min and said I think the healthcare policy. I said $2/hr raise was more money than me providing a health insurance plan. I said also, you would control your health insurance. You wouldn't be held hostage by whatever company you work for. If you were fired, you wouldn't lose your health insurance. If you left for another job you could choose the job based on what you liked and not by whether the company offered health insurance or not.

Bottom line is, it's not the tax payers responsibility to pay for another's healthcare.
 
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#20,538
#20,538
InVOLuntary said:
And they withheld care of the elderly. That's exactly what happens when you let government control of healthcare. It happens every time. Services are rationed. Our system has out performed all healthcare systems in the world.

I'm advocating everyone should pay their own health insurance. It's not my responsibility to pay for yours and it not your responsibility to pay for mine. If everyone took responsibility for their own healthcare prices would drop, and it would become more affordable.

I used to offer healthcare insurance for my employees. Obamacare ruined that. Couldn't secure a carrier. Was told to send employees to the exchange. Another way the .gov screwed the pooch.

I had an employee come into the office the other day asking whether we/me would offer health insurance again. I told him we'd look into it again but I asked him a question... I asked him if he'd rather have a $2/hr raise or healthcare policy. He thought for a min and said I think the healthcare policy. I said $2/hr raise was more money than me providing a health insurance plan. I said also, you would control your health insurance. You wouldn't be held hostage by whatever company you work for. If you were fired, you wouldn't lose your health insurance. If you left for another job you could choose the job based on what you liked and not by whether the company offered health insurance or not.

Bottom line is, it's not the tax payers responsibility to pay for another's healthcare.
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Everyone sings that, until shoe is on other foot.
 
#20,539
#20,539
InVOLuntary said:
And they withheld care of the elderly. That's exactly what happens when you let government control of healthcare. It happens every time. Services are rationed. Our system has out performed all healthcare systems in the world.

I'm advocating everyone should pay their own health insurance. It's not my responsibility to pay for yours and it not your responsibility to pay for mine. If everyone took responsibility for their own healthcare prices would drop, and it would become more affordable.

I used to offer healthcare insurance for my employees. Obamacare ruined that. Couldn't secure a carrier. Was told to send employees to the exchange. Another way the .gov screwed the pooch.

I had an employee come into the office the other day asking whether we/me would offer health insurance again. I told him we'd look into it again but I asked him a question... I asked him if he'd rather have a $2/hr raise or healthcare policy. He thought for a min and said I think the healthcare policy. I said $2/hr raise was more money than me providing a health insurance plan. I said also, you would control your health insurance. You wouldn't be held hostage by whatever company you work for. If you were fired, you wouldn't lose your health insurance. If you left for another job you could choose the job based on what you liked and not by whether the company offered health insurance or not.

Bottom line is, it's not the tax payers responsibility to pay for another's healthcare.
Click to expand...
Common. Sense.
 
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#20,542
#20,542
InVOLuntary said:
So you think it's my responsibility to purchase your health insurance?
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You're putting words in my mouth. There is no cure all for healthcare.

I'm saying certain people dont like AHCA, I get it. It's here, it is what it is. Initially, I wasnt wild about it. Still am not. Until I needed access to it, and it was there.

Situations change. Not every one is as blessed as you, or others. Sometimes people cant help their situation, and that is why it's available. To help.

People taking advantage of things, being greedy is as old as humanity.
 
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#20,543
#20,543
jackcrevol said:
You're putting words in my mouth. There is no cure all for healthcare.

I'm saying certain people dont like AHCA, I get it. It's here, it is what it is. Initially, I wasnt wild about it. Still am not. Until I needed access to it, and it was there.

Situations change. Not every one is as blessed as you, or others. Sometimes people cant help their situation, and that is why it's available. To help.

People taking advantage of things, being greedy is as old as humanity.
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How is asking you a question putting words in your mouth? It was a simple question. If you are for government healthcare, you are for others paying for others healthcare.

People look at government and don't make the connection that government money is money that is taken from hard working people. When you're an advocate for any government entitlement, you are an advocate for taking money from one and giving it to another.
 
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#20,544
#20,544
InVOLuntary said:
How is asking you a question putting words in your mouth? It was a simple question. If you are for government healthcare, you are for others paying for others healthcare.

People look at government and don't make the connection that government money is money that is taken from hard working people. When you're an advocate for any government entitlement, you are an advocate for taking money from one and giving it to another.
Click to expand...

You are paying into a system that you also have access to and can receive benefits from.
 
#20,548
#20,548
My problem with the ACA is the reimbursement of Medicare to facilities based on patient satisfaction. Why would that be a problem you ask? Because 95% of patients enter an ER with a preconceived notion as to what their diagnosis is thanks to Dr Google. Said patient gets pissed when Actual Dr informs them their “brain aneurism” is actually sinusitis. Another faction relies on Dr Feelgood and is pissed with Dr Ibuprofen. Why say this? Because no matter how great the care provided, there are tons of people who insist they know better. This impacts reimbursement. When facilities get dinged on funds they will eventually raise costs. So insurance starts cracking down on what they will cover (I am in the minority of providers and not overly pissed about this. We need some cost control but this is another topic.). So back to the increase in procedures... inevitably the consumer (patient) will pay. Insurance rates go up. People can’t afford it (yes even with the ACA). They eventually turn to the ER as primary care because it’s against the law to turn people away for any reason. So the ER is overwhelmed and now not getting reimbursed at all. Thus raising costs in other areas again. This is a vicious cycle.
 
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#20,550
#20,550
InVOLuntary said:
So you think it's my responsibility to purchase your health insurance?
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It’s wild to me people willingly give 10-20% or more of their earnings to their church every week yet some of those same people scoff at the very idea of having 10-20% of their earnings go towards helping others in need, for instance to help pay for others’ basic healthcare.

I’m not saying anyone is right or wrong or one system is better than the other, i just find it fascinating.
 
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