Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[HoleInTheRoof]

I will pray for your souls, because you've been introduced to the Lord Our Savior and turned him away!

It’s “gods plan” that I turned him away. Right?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Same thing said with the 2012 Mayan prophecies...and when they cloned Dolly the sheep...and gays were allowed to bang each other...and Y2K...Hailey's comet...and the crusaders believing it would end 666 years after Muhammad lived...and the Assyrians claiming culture was wrought and man was ruined...4,800 years ago..."Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.”

We aren't in a special period of time...like every other time. We are just so egotistical as to actually believe WE, of all the generations, of all the eons of time...now live in a unique time. Not dissimilar to previously believing our planet was the sole center of the whole universe. We are so full of ourselves. That's the sad truth. We think it all revolves around US...our time and place. But history and astronomy say we are anything but the center of anything. We'll have to live with it.

Fwiw not laughing at you. Just critiquing this line of thought. It's a dime a dozen.

Not defending the Tenn-Man's view of end times, but I do find it funny that you apparently criticize some for the "we're special and hold the truth" while seeking to disprove it with "My generation's beliefs about history and astronomy are special and true".

Nothing in astronomy, nor in history, proves that humanity isn't a special creation by God, by the way. You'll probably want to slow your roll, else just be another version of what you're arguing against.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You’re only a christian because you were likely indoctrinated as a youth in a predominantly christian nation. If you were born in china or somewhere in the Middle East you’d be online declaring “facts” about what ever god they were brainwashed to worship generation over generation.

Zero evidence any god even exist but throughout history man has created stories to explain away the unknown. Plus it makes us feel warm and fuzzy to think one day we’ll be with grandpa and grandma in heaven.

“Facts”

There were very few facts in that.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That's a catch-22, isn't it? If God is omnipotent and loves every single person on earth, then he would make sure not a single one burns in hell for eternity. If he wanted us to be saved, we would be, if we aren't then that has to be part of his plan, doesn't it?

That's rubbish.

You're making assumptions about the product without ever asking the designer what his intentions for the product were.

 

[bignewt]

That's rubbish.

You're making assumptions about the product without ever asking the designer what his intentions for the product were.

Well I can't ask the designer can I? All I can do is imagine this perfect being who is talked about in a book that grants free will but has a plan. Whatever put us here, wiped their hands and walked away or they have a very sick sense of "caring."

 

[MarcoVol]

You’re only a christian because you were likely indoctrinated as a youth in a predominantly christian nation. If you were born in china or somewhere in the Middle East you’d be online declaring “facts” about what ever god they were brainwashed to worship generation over generation.

Zero evidence any god even exist but throughout history man has created stories to explain away the unknown. Plus it makes us feel warm and fuzzy to think one day we’ll be with grandpa and grandma in heaven.

“Facts”

ricky gervais one more god - Google Search

 

[Orange_Crush]

Well I can't ask the designer can I? All I can do is imagine this perfect being who is talked about in a book that grants free will but has a plan. Whatever put us here, wiped their hands and walked away or they have a very sick sense of "caring."

You are making more assumptions, stating them as fact, and strutting across the board like you're winning whatever game we're supposed to be playing here.

If you're interested in better understanding what you're trying to criticize, start asking questions. It's a bad look to be completely ignorant of the Bible and then publicly post as though that makes you a great theologian.

 

[bignewt]

You are making more assumptions, stating them as fact, and strutting across the board like you're winning whatever game we're supposed to be playing here.

If you're interested in better understanding what you're trying to criticize, start asking questions. It's a bad look to be completely ignorant of the Bible and then publicly post as though that makes you a great theologian.

Ive read the bible. Talked to pastors, asked plenty of questions. Funny thing is you are just as arrogant in your defense. Maybe you take too much for granted and think anyone that questions traditional faith is presumptuous. Who's ignorant?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Ive read the bible. Talked to pastors, asked plenty of questions. Funny thing is you are just as arrogant in your defense. Maybe you take too much for granted and think anyone that questions traditional faith is presumptuous. Who's ignorant?

I don't think I am just as arrogant in my defense, but will prayerfully consider it and apologize if so. I believe the Bible and admit that my beliefs are "faith", although I believe the object of that faith to be well founded.

Such diversions aside, you're claiming that God doesn't exist because of some "catch-22" in the Biblical message. If the Bible says that He's omnipotent and loving, and yet He sends people to Hell, then the Bible's message is a contradiction and disproves God. No?

Well, what study have you put into this to make you such a powerful theologian to have overturned thousands of years of theology with such a new and novel "dilemma"?



A few questions:

What was God's ultimate plan for the Universe?

What was His highest ideal for the Universe?

When the Bible says that God is "love", what is the Biblical definition of "love" that defines Him?

When God sends someone to Hell, what is His motivation for having done so?


The answers to these would begin to answer that dilemma. I'll give you first shot at answering them if you'd like to discuss the dilemma in more depth. Or, I can offer my thoughts on them if you truly are interested in continuing the conversation.

Thanks.

 

[bignewt]

I don't think I am just as arrogant in my defense, but will prayerfully consider it and apologize if so. I believe the Bible and admit that my beliefs are "faith", although I believe the object of that faith to be well founded.

Such diversions aside, you're claiming that God doesn't exist because of some "catch-22" in the Biblical message. If the Bible says that He's omnipotent and loving, and yet He sends people to Hell, then the Bible's message is a contradiction and disproves God. No?

Well, what study have you put into this to make you such a powerful theologian to have overturned thousands of years of theology with such a new and novel "dilemma"?



A few questions:

What was God's ultimate plan for the Universe?

What was His highest ideal for the Universe?

When the Bible says that God is "love", what is the Biblical definition of "love" that defines Him?

When God sends someone to Hell, what is His motivation for having done so?


The answers to these would begin to answer that dilemma. I'll give you first shot at answering them if you'd like to discuss the dilemma in more depth. Or, I can offer my thoughts on them if you truly are interested in continuing the conversation.

Thanks.

I'm trying to see where I claimed to be a theologian? But how many theologians over those thousands of years have believed in Zeus? Amun-Ra? Hunab-Ku? It just so happens that a colonizing aggressive race latched on to this particular idea of God and pushed it everywhere they went (like this very country which is why you believe they way you do) and here we are. There happens to still be other religions that are not yours, but I guess they are just wrong.

As for your pop quiz, it comes down to 'God's plan.' I get that. We are all God's creatures and he loves all of equally no matter what, that much can be garnered through Christ's teachings in the New Testament. My main question for pastors has been the evils of this world, like Uvalde, and why a benevolent God would allow such purely terrible things to happen to the innocent. The answer I have gotten is its God's plan and we cannot fathom it. I call BS on that.

I have no idea why or how whatever created us, created us. I am merely a mortal man. Its quite obvious that a mortal mind was not meant to know, rather to imagine what it is. There has been no evidence of any higher power other than what people think happened 2000 years ago, how convenient. If you find peace in your answers, rock n roll. I find peace in knowing there is no way to know and all I can do is live my best life and YOLO baby.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I'm trying to see where I claimed to be a theologian? But how many theologians over those thousands of years have believed in Zeus? Amun-Ra? Hunab-Ku? It just so happens that a colonizing aggressive race latched on to this particular idea of God and pushed it everywhere they went (like this very country which is why you believe they way you do) and here we are. There happens to still be other religions that are not yours, but I guess they are just wrong.

You claimed to be theologian when you made such declarative statements about God. Theo-logy is the "ology" of God. Theo == God.

Pointing to people who are wrong on a subject doesn't make any claim on a subject wrong. That's a bad form of argument, and a poor way to seek truth.

As for your pop quiz, it comes down to 'God's plan.' I get that. We are all God's creatures and he loves all of equally no matter what, that much can be garnered through Christ's teachings in the New Testament. My main question for pastors has been the evils of this world, like Uvalde, and why a benevolent God would allow such purely terrible things to happen to the innocent. The answer I have gotten is its God's plan and we cannot fathom it. I call BS on that.

As to my pop quiz, if you're criticizing the Bible's message, you must do so from within the Bible's message. You can't just measure the message against your assumptions, and then count it disproved because it failed against your preferences. That's why I made a big deal of it.

And the message doesn't become invalidated because you asked some people who probably should have been able to give better answers than you got.

I have no idea why or how whatever created us, created us. I am merely a mortal man. Its quite obvious that a mortal mind was not meant to know, rather to imagine what it is. There has been no evidence of any higher power other than what people think happened 2000 years ago, how convenient. If you find peace in your answers, rock n roll. I find peace in knowing there is no way to know and all I can do is live my best life and YOLO baby.

It is not obvious that mortal minds aren't meant to know. As a matter of fact, the Christian religion sees the Bible as scripture, inspired by God and profitable for knowing and growing in the knowledge of Him. So again, you've blanketed Christianity with your assumptions.

To quote Francis Schafer, "He is there, and He is not silent."

And so, understanding these things, as described in scripture, is imperative before just hand-waving scripture as either inconceivable or too contradictory to consider.

I'll give you my thoughts, as I've found them revealed in scripture and considered as philosophy. I believe they sufficiently answer the question of evil in the world from a Biblical perspective. I believe they are sufficient to describe God as non-contradictory. Note that, even though I believe He is logically consistent in the narrative, that doesn't mean that you have to consider Him as worthy to be worshiped if He does exist.

A few questions:

What was God's ultimate plan for the Universe?

God's ultimate plan for the universe was for it to be a stage displaying His glory to humanity. The design and plan was for humanity to live in intimate relationship with Him and one another, as His image on earth, stewarding the earth.

When He told them to "go forth and multiply", that wasn't just about going and having sex and having kids. It was an imperative to go out and create cultures across the globe that would be expressions of His highest ideal.

What was His highest ideal for the Universe?

1 Corinthians states clearly that "the greatest ... is love". Love is God's highest ideal for the universe.

When the Bible says that God is "love", what is the Biblical definition of "love" that defines Him?

1 Corinthians also describes love as a mindset--as an ongoing set of real-time decisions about others. Love is selfless, kind, serving, longsuffering...

The plan was that we live in perfect, intimate relationship with God and others, selflessly serving God and others without the hint of selfishness, sin or "wronging" one another. That "culture" that we were to spread across the earth was one that willingly served God and others. We were freed and safe doing so because God and others were "loving" us right back. And... In the image of God who is love, we were designed to be fulfilled and joy-filled in doing so.

Romans 12 describes Godly relationships (in part) outdoing one another in giving honor. In other words, the only competition in relationship should be competing with one another to bless the other. That was the designed and desired reality--no manipulation or evil against one another--a reality where everyone competed with one another to bless one another, all resting in the knowledge that God would win the competition in blessing us.

Note love as decision. Biblical love necessitates free will. So, God's plan for the universe dictated free will and the possibility of offense.

Obviously, that free will was used to rebel against God. Our image of God was marred, every person since has inherited a sin nature that is "me-centric". It created competition, manipulation, sin against God and others...

It started this cycle of hurt people hurting people. It created the evil you see that is so evil and vile that it makes you question whether God could exist along with this vileness.

But if God's ideal was love exposed as the highest ideal, then the possibility of this was always a danger.

When God sends someone to Hell, what is His motivation for having done so?

But the Biblical message is that God had plans from before creation to make remedy.

He revealed Himself to Israel and gave the first covenant--the Law. The Law was designed to expose just how evil evil is. And to convince everyone just how fallen and sinful we are. But the law couldn't fix our nature. So, it could only condemn.

But the plan was a second covenant, where God Himself would become human and take on flesh and live the perfect life--the original ideal. He did so because the wages of sin is death. His innocent life paid the debt of our sin so that whosoever would accept the payment could be once again restored to Him.

He opened the door to ask, "Who want my great ideal? You won't be able to live it in this life because you still have your sin nature, but I paid the debt of your sin. And one day I'll get rid of this old, soiled, sinful universe and make a new one that hasn't bee soiled with sin. And it'll be populated with everyone who (a) has submitted to my rule and affirmed their desire for my ideal, and (b) has been given a new nature to willingly not break that ideal ever again.

Anyone who rejects my rule and ideal would just restart the whole evil problem again in the new creation, and that would ruin it for everyone. But I made mankind as eternal beings, and even those who reject me will live forever, just not with me.

It would seem that being fully cast away from God--the source of all good, fulfillment, etc... will be some kind of Hell.
As evil as this world is, Hell will be relegated as worse. And that's where the people who rejected God will be.

So, God is love. He created the universe as a platform for love to be the ideal. But love entails decision, and we see the evil of the world as the result and ongoing activity of free will.

But God is love. And His decision was to humble Himself to serve sinners and offer us escape.

Now, you don't have to believe any of this. And if you do believe some of it and consider such a God unworthy of your worship or attention. That's fine too.

Because God is love, and love entails free will.

God bless you.

 

[bignewt]

Now, you don't have to believe any of this. And if you do believe some of it and consider such a God unworthy of your worship or attention. That's fine too.

Because God is love, and love entails free will.

God bless you.

I don't.

But whatever makes you happy.

Newt out.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I don't.

But whatever makes you happy.

Newt out.

I just saw this and thought of us:

I genuinely hope you have a super day, my friend.

 

[TennMan101]

Not defending the Tenn-Man's view of end times, but I do find it funny that you apparently criticize some for the "we're special and hold the truth" while seeking to disprove it with "My generation's beliefs about history and astronomy are special and true".

Nothing in astronomy, nor in history, proves that humanity isn't a special creation by God, by the way. You'll probably want to slow your roll, else just be another version of what you're arguing against.

I just prayed for them and then put them on ignore. I would suggest doing the same

 

[Glitch]

I just prayed for them and then put them on ignore. I would suggest doing the same

I am a Christian, but I have found that engaging in theological discussions on a football message board is not really productive for the Kingdom. Most of the folks that engage back are thoroughly entrenched in their beliefs, just as you are in yours. Message board posts aren't going to change their minds and often end with you showing behavior that only turns others off if they were open to listening about Jesus in the first place. You of course are free to do as you wish, but that has been my experience in the past and I choose to keep my time here focused on football and as light hearted as possible. There are some posters that request prayers and many that offer them up, but the back in forth doesn't help others see what you want them to see. Just my two cents on the subject.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I am a Christian, but I have found that engaging in theological discussions on a football message board is not really productive for the Kingdom. Most of the folks that engage back are thoroughly entrenched in their beliefs, just as you are in yours. Message board posts aren't going to change their minds and often end with you showing behavior that only turns others off if they were open to listening about Jesus in the first place. You of course are free to do as you wish, but that has been my experience in the past and I choose to keep my time here focused on football and as light hearted as possible. There are some posters that request prayers and many that offer them up, but the back in forth doesn't help others see what you want them to see. Just my two cents on the subject.

I'm not sure that changing anyone's mind is the defining goal of theological discussion. In Jesus' parable, a large portion of the ground would prove unproductive, and yet the farmer was still told to cast seed indiscriminately, without soil samples. It would be a sad thing to withhold seed from receptive soil because you'd assumed what would or wouldn't happen to the seed.

There's an old story about a monk that went out and shared the gospel. He came back and updated his superior, downcast. "I shared the gospel with everyone I met, and it just ran off them without penetrating, like water from a duck's back."

His senior replied, "And neither is it the water's fault."

With that said, I believe I understand your point and concern.

(ETA: Also note how often Jesus publicly debated theology for the benefit of the crowd, as opposed to any expectations for the one He was debating.)

 

[Jackcrevol]

I am a Christian, but I have found that engaging in theological discussions on a football message board is not really productive for the Kingdom. Most of the folks that engage back are thoroughly entrenched in their beliefs, just as you are in yours. Message board posts aren't going to change their minds and often end with you showing behavior that only turns others off if they were open to listening about Jesus in the first place. You of course are free to do as you wish, but that has been my experience in the past and I choose to keep my time here focused on football and as light hearted as possible. There are some posters that request prayers and many that offer them up, but the back in forth doesn't help others see what you want them to see. Just my two cents on the subject.

Dont fudge, you have no cents.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I am a Christian, but I have found that engaging in theological discussions on a football message board is not really productive for the Kingdom. Most of the folks that engage back are thoroughly entrenched in their beliefs, just as you are in yours. Message board posts aren't going to change their minds and often end with you showing behavior that only turns others off if they were open to listening about Jesus in the first place. You of course are free to do as you wish, but that has been my experience in the past and I choose to keep my time here focused on football and as light hearted as possible. There are some posters that request prayers and many that offer them up, but the back in forth doesn't help others see what you want them to see. Just my two cents on the subject.

Yep

 

[Glitch]

I'm not sure that changing anyone's mind is the defining goal of theological discussion. In Jesus' parable, a large portion of the ground would prove unproductive, and yet the farmer was still told to cast seed indiscriminately, without soil samples. It would be a sad thing to withhold seed from receptive soil because you'd assumed what would or wouldn't happen to the seed.

There's an old story about a monk that went out and shared the gospel. He came back and updated his superior, downcast. "I shared the gospel with everyone I met, and it just ran off them without penetrating, like water from a duck's back."

His senior replied, "And neither is it the water's fault."

With that said, I believe I understand your point and concern.

Yes. I am all for sharing the gospel. I just believe that there are certain posters on here that have made very clear where they stand and arguing with them is not fruitful. This is a place where you can make your beliefs known and then try to demonstrate those beliefs as best you can so that others can see your behavior. I have made plenty of mistakes in posting comments that do not reflect well on me or my faith, so I am trying to be better.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Yes. I am all for sharing the gospel. I just believe that there are certain posters on here that have made very clear where they stand and arguing with them is not fruitful. This is a place where you can make your beliefs known and then try to demonstrate those beliefs as best you can so that others can see your behavior. I have made plenty of mistakes in posting comments that do not reflect well on me or my faith, so I am trying to be better.

I think I understand.

I wince at all the times I've lost testimony.

To be honest, I don't see debates here on that subject as a test of wills with the expectation that I'll change the original poster's mind. But at the same time, what if someone was struggling in their faith, read a post about how the God of the Bible is a logical contradiction, and no one had cared to expose how vacuous that logic was?

How sad, that it was described that someone asked pastors these questions and the pastors waved off decent answers with gibberish about the incomprehensibility of God?

And I see Christian Apologetics as pre-gospel that should always be working toward the gospel. Drive toward it. Share it. Leave it to God and others, for it's between Him and them at that point.

I appreciate your perspective, and appreciate your posts around here.

 

[Cosmo Kramer]

I think I understand.

I wince at all the times I've lost testimony.

To be honest, I don't see debates here on that subject as a test of wills with the expectation that I'll change the original poster's mind. But at the same time, what if someone was struggling in their faith, read a post about how the God of the Bible is a logical contradiction, and no one had cared to expose how vacuous that logic was?

How sad, that it was described that someone asked pastors these questions and the pastors waved off decent answers with gibberish about the incomprehensibility of God?

And I see Christian Apologetics as pre-gospel that should always be working toward the gospel. Drive toward it. Share it. Leave it to God and others, for it's between Him and them at that point.

I appreciate your perspective, and appreciate your posts around here.

You are not going to convert anyone on a Message Board so best to leave it alone IMO

 

[bignewt]

You are not going to convert anyone on a Message Board so best to leave it alone IMO

Guess that's why it irks me and I apologize to everyone that receives my wrath. To me, religion does not belong on a football forum. There are plenty of places for that.

Peace and love, y'all.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

I just prayed for them and then put them on ignore. I would suggest doing the same

You didn’t put me on ignore. Stop lying. It’s a sin.

 

[Glitch]

You didn’t put me on ignore. Stop lying. It’s a sin.

I would put you on ignore, but you start all the player threads. Danged if I do, and danged if I don't.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Why to homeschool.

Love Melissa. Having come out of New Age religion, she can see when it starts creeping in.