Recruiting means nothing

#51
#51
appyvol said:
I dont believe we would have ran the read option very much. The offense would look like it did with Worley at the helm, but Bray could make the throws that Worley just cant.
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We ran the Read option with Worley, he just never kept it.
 
#53
#53
I think it has a lot to do with the atmosphere around the football program also. The atmosphere from the time Kiffin left and through all three seasons of Dooley was down right depressing and it was easy to see. I think as much as it is from the physical part it is also very important from the mental part also. The last three now four years has been down right traumatizing on the player that endured all 4 years and it has been very easy to see.
 
#54
#54
Fullfillmer said:
Recruiting is Everything

Not the X's and O's it's the Jimmy and Joes. Player development, no off-field issues, good sound play calling decisions by the coaches are all important - but if you can't recruit or if you can't recruit both sides of the ball -- you are screwed in this conference. See Mushchamp - Fulmer - Belamer - Ogeron - etc. etc. if you want examples. Fulmer could still develop players - he just wasn't recruiting them. Also my apologies to the crappy Arkansas coach for misspelling his name. :)

Feel free to discuss amongst yourself.
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2005 roster was stacked with good players including a 2002 recruiting class that had 5 5stars and a #2 National rank, 5-6 team.
 
#55
#55
SandoVOL said:
if we can't develop the talent. It has plagued UT since early 2ks. We haven't had a solid QB since cut was here, Bray had a huge arm but couldn't even read his check downs. Players like Berry and Patterson are the only guys that have been able to shine for us because they were truly special.

Getting the players here is just half the battle of recruiting, developing is the other half. I'm not putting all my eggs in the recruiting basket even if it is the only basket left for the season. Discuss :)
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Didn't Butch and company develop a 2 star dude into the top draft pick?
 
#56
#56
SandoVOL said:
2005 roster was stacked with good players including a 2002 recruiting class that had 5 5stars and a #2 National rank, 5-6 team.
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Please do a little research before you - throw out something hoping it will stick. You are proving my point not yours. Of the 5 stars you mentioned in 2002 - 2 were Junior College guys who were gone by 2005 - one was James Banks who was at Carson Newman in 2005 which leaves a lineman Brandon Jefferies - who may or may not have played a little in 2005 and J. Riggs Jr. - an ok running back.

I didn't research the 4 and 3 stars in 2002 or the 2001 class ranking but the 2003 and 2004 class were ranked 18th and 20th which isn't very good by SEC competition standards. 2005 may also have been one of the many years that Cutcliff left and took most of the offensive staff with him- I can't remember when exactly he went to Ole Miss.

Here is something you can take to the bank - South Carolina will be passed by the University of Tennessee in the next two years. Does that mean that South Carolina doesn't do a good job in player development - no. (In a whisper ) We are 2nd in the conference in recruiting this year and the ole ball coach is 14th.
 
#57
#57
Fullfillmer said:
Recruiting is Everything

Not the X's and O's it's the Jimmy and Joes. Player development, no off-field issues, good sound play calling decisions by the coaches are all important - but if you can't recruit or if you can't recruit both sides of the ball -- you are screwed in this conference. See Mushchamp - Fulmer - Belamer - Ogeron - etc. etc. if you want examples. Fulmer could still develop players - he just wasn't recruiting them. Also my apologies to the crappy Arkansas coach for misspelling his name. :)

Feel free to discuss amongst yourself.
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I think you got it backwards. 3 of those guys are/were great recruiters but development and game management dogged them.
 
#58
#58
SandoVOL said:
Where has anyone said we do not want top 5 talent :birgits_giggle: Try reading the OP again. This dates back further than the last 5 years
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You said your not counting on recruiting.....not me. And since Butch is selling the Tennessee brand like a man possessed to one of the ELITE CLASSES in the nation...not sure why you can't be happy with that.
 
#60
#60
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think you got it backwards. 3 of those guys are/were great recruiters but development and game management dogged them.
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No - Ogeron at Ole Miss and Muschamp have recruited mostly one side of the ball. Are you telling me Fulmer suddenly wasn't good at player development? Seems like he sent many, many players to the NFL. His downfall was his recruiting effort and ability went south on him and this ultimately cost him his job. In his defense he was hit with a couple of years where Cutcliff left and took most of the offensive staff with him which further hurt recruiting under Fulmer. I repeat recruiting killed Fulmer - hurt Ogeron - and will likely cost Muschamp his job.
 
#61
#61
Am I to believe that in some people's opinion, top notch talent doesn't need coaching and development?
 
#62
#62
InVOLuntary said:
I wonder how good Bray could have been under coach Cut?
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I believe Bray could have been one of the best to ever play at TN he had the size arm strenth and accuracy. But I hate to say it the thing that hurt him was he didn't have his Heart in it.
 
#63
#63
Stanford is very well coached almost every year--but it also gets some good talent, especially at QB. Andrew Luck, for example--and they've had a bunch of good QBs. And their OL is usually good. Very sound team most years. But they also play in a conference that's not nearly as tough as the SEC.

Cut would have improved Bray quite a bit. Look what he did with Ainge. He was floundering until Cut got a hold of him.

Every year, it seems, we sux on one side of the ball--and you can't beat good teams when you sux on one side of the ball. Last year we had a laughably bad defense, this year we've had a laughably bad passing game. 20007 and 2005 (4?) we had excellent defenses and offenses that couldn't tie their shoes. Every year it's something--and then when we do play a decent all-around game we're losing late. SC game a rarity.
 
#65
#65
Doyle Hargraves said:
Am I to believe that in some people's opinion, top notch talent doesn't need coaching and development?
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Getting the players here is just half the battle of recruiting, developing is the other half. I'm not putting all my eggs in the recruiting basket even if it is the only basket left for the season.
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If you have big, fast, elite level talent....it makes a coach's job a lot easier to coach up and game plan for than slower less athletic and/orunder sized players. That is why Butch has been saying these players must play a flawless game....because they honestly have no room for any errors.

We will never be able to compete with any of the big boys on a consistent basis for a full season without a roster 2-3 deep of top level talent at every position. Once we get passed our starters (which already lack a lot of speed)...the level of speed and athleticism takes an honest nose dive.
 
#66
#66
Doyle Hargraves said:
Am I to believe that in some people's opinion, top notch talent doesn't need coaching and development?
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It all starts with recruiting and securing top notch talent. Those 4.8 forty guys that were playing cornerback when Dooley was here could be coached and developed to H-ll and back and they still wouldn't be able to slow down a good SEC team.

It hasssssssssssssssssssssssssss to start with Recruiting.

Butch gets that it starts with recruiting. :)
 
#67
#67
QVOL81 said:
None. There's not many valid excuses left for butch. Just that he doesn't have his players yet. But that won't be valid next year or the year after when he still sucks
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This touch of genius from the same poster who claimed in the recruiting forum that "We can kiss a top 20 class goodbye" even though not one player has decommitted yet and Tennessee has a consensus top 3 class of mostly 4* star players. Right now, I would say that these posts of yours have a much better chance of sucking in two years than any team with Jalen Hurd, Dewayne Hendrix, Derek Barnett, Todd Kelly Jr, Cortez McDowell, Dillon Bates etc....
 
#68
#68
Sandovol,if recruiting means nothing,how little do you think that your thoughts/brains mean to vol nation? Less!
 
#70
#70
SandoVOL said:
if we can't develop the talent. It has plagued UT since early 2ks. We haven't had a solid QB since cut was here, Bray had a huge arm but couldn't even read his check downs. Players like Berry and Patterson are the only guys that have been able to shine for us because they were truly special.

Getting the players here is just half the battle of recruiting, developing is the other half. I'm not putting all my eggs in the recruiting basket even if it is the only basket left for the season. Discuss :)
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It's a whole lot easier to coach up guys who are naturally talented. Alabama gets a lot highly ranked players who are already studs. Now I am not saying Saban doesn't coach them up because he does. But don't you think it's a lot easier seeings how those guys are already highly talented?

Look at North, he was a highly talented guy and he is a stud. Yes coaching has a lot to do with it but it takes more time and effort to coach up 2 and 3* star players.
 
#72
#72
jimallvol said:
I believe Bray could have been one of the best to ever play at TN he had the size arm strenth and accuracy. But I hate to say it the thing that hurt him was he didn't have his Heart in it.
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I don't know how this morphed into Bray ìn CBJ offense. I think Cut would have taken Bray to a whole new level. Maybe even made him mature a little.
 
#73
#73
InVOLuntary said:
About 90% of our running plays have been read option. Worley never kept it but they were read option.
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I'm talking spread, not read option.
Early you stated Bray was not a spread quarterback. What kind of offense due you think we ran with Bray? Wingt?
 
#75
#75
Vol8188 said:
I'm talking spread, not read option.
Early you stated Bray was not a spread quarterback. What kind of offense due you think we ran with Bray? Wingt?
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I don't know how this morphed into this. My question was how much of an influence coach cut would have had. I was referring to CBJ spread. It relies on a mobile QB of which Bray is not.
 
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