Recruits are believing what Butch Jones is selling

#52
#52
HuntlandVolinColo said:
Strong came in thinking he owned the state and Sumlin has already beootch slapped him three or four times on recruits...including Texas commits.
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Lots of people moving to TX is a big factor here. Lots of kids/families don't have that UTX pull automatically anymore because of that.

It's not like the Santos deal a few yrs back. Dooley had him sealed up but people who wanted to be realistic (not the homer Vol fan) knew that if UTX came calling he was gone. Small town TX folks like his family know all the opportunities that open up form them if their boy plays for UTX. Dooley was also making a push into TX, so it was a smart move by Brown knowing all he had to do is make the offer to flip him.
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#54
#54
Grand Vol said:
And pestering Dave Hart to give Thigpen a well deserved raise.
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Yeah he's the one i hope is getting extra attention for sure. Worth an increase if all is on the up and up. Anyone that went through the Auburn School of Recruiting needs to be kept tabs on.
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#56
#56
HuntlandVolinColo said:
kiffen couldn't come close to recruiting this well...even with comfort girls! (one of them was even named the closer)

CDD couldn't recruit this well with a National Champion Coach for a daddy.
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Kiffin never believed in UT. He thought he had to use gimmicks to sell UT.

Jones... does believe.

You get different types of players from those two approaches. Kiffin got ALOT of punks who were attracted to his antics. Jones is getting talented kids with high character.

He still has to prove he can coach and win... but he very much seems to be getting the right kinds of people and talent.
 
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#57
#57
governmentmule said:
I'm thinking 6 wins,hopefully,what i want to see while they win 6 games,hopefully more but it could go the other way,is to play some tough nosed hard fought games all year,weather they win or lose,I think that will impact next years class the most
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I'm trying to look at it strictly from a "sales" pov. What will it take to keep getting recruits to buy in.

As a fan, I might could agree with your statement. As a recruit... I just want to see some wins and preferrably some surprises.
 
#59
#59
sjt18 said:
Kiffin never believed in UT. He thought he had to use gimmicks to sell UT.

Jones... does believe.

You get different types of players from those two approaches. Kiffin got ALOT of punks who were attracted to his antics. Jones is getting talented kids with high character.

He still has to prove he can coach and win... but he very much seems to be getting the right kinds of people and talent.
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Well said..
 
#60
#60
sjt18 said:
Kiffin never believed in UT. He thought he had to use gimmicks to sell UT.

Jones... does believe.

You get different types of players from those two approaches. Kiffin got ALOT of punks who were attracted to his antics. Jones is getting talented kids with high character.

He still has to prove he can coach and win... but he very much seems to be getting the right kinds of people and talent.
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This. Good post.
 
#61
#61
sjt18 said:
Kiffin never believed in UT. He thought he had to use gimmicks to sell UT.

Jones... does believe.

You get different types of players from those two approaches. Kiffin got ALOT of punks who were attracted to his antics. Jones is getting talented kids with high character.

He still has to prove he can coach and win... but he very much seems to be getting the right kinds of people and talent.
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Nailed it.
 
#63
#63
Doyle Hargraves said:
What I have learned: If a staff out recruits Dooley's, tabs must be kept on them.
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Has nothing to do with doing better than Dooley. Has everything to do with change and drastic improvement getting people to take a look at how it was done. Pretty simple logic.

People can be naive if they want and think that it's not possible that the NCAA, SEC, and other coaches aren't going to look into how CBJ was able to pull off the high # of signees but i'm not. Once people look into one thing even if nothing is found wrong it may turn up something else if it's there. It's funny how people say how auburn is shady in recruiting, but when we get one of their former coaches then all of a sudden there is no way he brought bad habits with him. Not saying he has done anything wrong but it's naive to think it's not possible. To each their own though.

We saw this when the NCAA was on campus for the Pearl issue and how it ended up having them poke around the football program under kiffin more then they may have if they weren't already on campus. Oh wait sorry that was Dooley's fault too right bud?? Smh.
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#64
#64
sjt18 said:
Kiffin never believed in UT. He thought he had to use gimmicks to sell UT.

Jones... does believe.

You get different types of players from those two approaches. Kiffin got ALOT of punks who were attracted to his antics. Jones is getting talented kids with high character.

He still has to prove he can coach and win... but he very much seems to be getting the right kinds of people and talent.
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And this is why Dooley was a stop gap coach in a sense imo. Dooley went after good kids, and had to purge the team of the kiffin stench. CBJ is benefiting from the type of kids dooley brought in. Are they the high star talent we need maybe not but they are good kids. If CBJ is a good coach he has players he should be able to prepare to win. The only really big miss by dooley was Cam which was a huge miss by everyone. Also a TN kid out Memphis...just said that cause dooley gets bashed for not getting/going after TN kids.

I know u and I disagree on if Dooley's coaching ability was able to be judged in his 3 yrs. But I always said that once he was able to purge all the kiffin stench then I would have been able to judge him. Cause he had soooo many negatives, and issues that countered any good work. CBJ is benefiting from that immensely.

My concern with CBJ is if he pretty much saw this past year as a throw away year, and if he did then if he realizes that this upcoming one won't be at all. No matter how good this class is. Like you I believe he needs to win and/or compete in games this upcoming year. 7 wins shouldn't be a stretch by any means. Especially with the EE talent he has coming in. Getting blown out shouldn't be a regular occurrence this season. He has had plenty of time with this team without having to deal with drama and negative issues like dooley had to deal with. Especially having to deal with things like kicking off the best defensive player on the team during fall camp. CBJ is getting paid way to much not to have a winning season next yr, has been here long enough. He is fully aware of how difficult the schedule is going to be, and he has plenty time to prepare the team for said schedule. No and, ifs, but about it.
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#65
#65
Well one thing that Dooley did right was VFL. CBJ has improved on it by bringing back legacy players and coaches to meet and inspire the team.

Sadly that may be his best achievement.
 
#66
#66
bigorange247 said:
bUTch has proven he can win. 4 titles in 6 years before coming to UT last year says so.
Go bUTch
Go Vols!!:good!:
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I like Jones. I want more than anything for him to be a championship caliber coach in the SEC. But going from Cincy or any other school like that to UT is like a HS coach moving to college. Sometimes it works (Malzahn). Sometimes it doesn't (Jerry Faust).

NOTHING... that he did prior to accepting the UT job proves ANYTHING about what he can do in week in, week out competition with the best college football coaches in the nation.

He was Ofer against ranked opponents in his first 6 years. I think he played 6 or 7. USCe was his first and only win against a ranked opponent. The win % of the teams he beat while at CIncy was about .400. At UT, it will usually be .600 or better. He played 22 bowl eligible teams at Cincy. He had a 10-12 record against those teams. That won't cut it at UT. In 3 years at Cincy, he only beat 6 BCS teams that finished with a winning record.

Whereas he would have schedule breaks at Cincy in terms of competition, there's just no such thing at UT. You have to bring the A game every time you take the field as a coach.

This is not a prediction of failure. It isn't being a "negavol" or any of that non-sense. It is just an answer to the false notion that Jones' resume means anything at all except that it got him the job. The guys who will face him across the field have great resumes too.

So in poker terms... I'll see your 4 championships in the Big East and MAC and raise you four blowout losses and a Vandy loss. Now we get to see what cards are flipped over next... but NOTHING has been proven.
 
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#67
#67
Doyle Hargraves said:
Do you really think if Butch goes 5-7 the next two years, he can keep recruiting on this level?
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No.

I think many folks are overlooking one of the key portions of this year's class which is the outgoing personalities of the recruits. Many of them have been recruiting hard helping CBJ and Thig. I suspect they will continue to do so next cycle also.
 
#68
#68
HuntlandVolinColo said:
Well one thing that Dooley did right was VFL. CBJ has improved on it by bringing back legacy players and coaches to meet and inspire the team.

Sadly that may be his best achievement.
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Yeah, the VFL program is the best thing he brought in for sure. Also don't forget our training facility. Believe it or not, Dooley had a HUGE amount of input in the design of that thing and the end result is spectacular! It's truly the gold standard, probably falling just short of Oregon's Taj Mahal.
 
#69
#69
Oskie Volum said:
Has nothing to do with doing better than Dooley. Has everything to do with change and drastic improvement getting people to take a look at how it was done. Pretty simple logic.

People can be naive if they want and think that it's not possible that the NCAA, SEC, and other coaches aren't going to look into how CBJ was able to pull off the high # of signees but i'm not. Once people look into one thing even if nothing is found wrong it may turn up something else if it's there. It's funny how people say how auburn is shady in recruiting, but when we get one of their former coaches then all of a sudden there is no way he brought bad habits with him. Not saying he has done anything wrong but it's naive to think it's not possible. To each their own though.

We saw this when the NCAA was on campus for the Pearl issue and how it ended up having them poke around the football program under kiffin more then they may have if they weren't already on campus. Oh wait sorry that was Dooley's fault too right bud?? Smh.
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You are such an amazing hypocrite.
You constantly moan about people randomly bringing up Dooley for no reason other than to bash him. Yet, here you are bringing him up in a thread like this for reasons unknown. Are you able to make a post at all without it somehow getting back to defending Dooley? Someone could make a thread about how cold the weather has been and you would reply, "Well, people gripe about the cold but if you recall, it was never this cold when Dooley was the coach. Hope you are all happy."
Smdh.
 
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#71
#71
sjt18 said:
I like Jones. I want more than anything for him to be a championship caliber coach in the SEC. But going from Cincy or any other school like that to UT is like a HS coach moving to college. Sometimes it works (Malzahn). Sometimes it doesn't (Jerry Faust).

NOTHING... that he did prior to accepting the UT job proves ANYTHING about what he can do in week in, week out competition with the best college football coaches in the nation.

He was Ofer against ranked opponents in his first 6 years. I think he played 6 or 7. USCe was his first and only win against a ranked opponent. The win % of the teams he beat while at CIncy was about .400. At UT, it will usually be .600 or better. He played 22 bowl eligible teams at Cincy. He had a 10-12 record against those teams. That won't cut it at UT. In 3 years at Cincy, he only beat 6 BCS teams that finished with a winning record.

Whereas he would have schedule breaks at Cincy in terms of competition, there's just no such thing at UT. You have to bring the A game every time you take the field as a coach.

This is not a prediction of failure. It isn't being a "negavol" or any of that non-sense. It is just an answer to the false notion that Jones' resume means anything at all except that it got him the job. The guys who will face him across the field have great resumes too.

So in poker terms... I'll see your 4 championships in the Big East and MAC and raise you four blowout losses and a Vandy loss. Now we get to see what cards are flipped over next... but NOTHING has been proven.
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This should be pinned! Well said. :good!:
 
#74
#74
Doyle Hargraves said:
You are such an amazing hypocrite.
You constantly moan about people randomly bringing up Dooley for no reason other than to bash him. Yet, here you are bringing him up in a thread like this for reasons unknown. Are you able to make a post at all without it somehow getting back to defending Dooley? Someone could make a thread about how cold the weather has been and you would reply, "Well, people gripe about the cold but if you recall, it was never this cold when Dooley was the coach. Hope you are all happy."
Smdh.
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You're on quite the roll today, Doyle.
 
#75
#75
Historic program, elite facilities, thin roster, brand new message. Easy recruiting job.
 
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