Recruits are believing what Butch Jones is selling

[sjt18]

He's back and trolling along on Super Bowl Sunday!

Don't be a coward and moron by calling people names for disagreeing with you.

 

[hmanvolfan]

So far he's done some good things off the field... and a few that look great. He got the job with a good resume built to a great degree on beating lesser competition. He posted a subpar season in which his staff was outcoached several times.



Does it make "sense"? "Since" when?

I have looked at the good and bad so that makes me not a fan now? You need to get you head out and realize that lots of REAL fans are out here that can see the good but don't happen to agree with you about ignoring the ugly.

*yore

 

[GoVols15]

No. Some of us just have our eyes open and can see subpar performance. It doesn't mean we're condemning anyone or have unrealistic expectations. It simply means that we expect a UT coach with two weeks to prepare for a Vandy team with less talent to show better than Jones did this year. Doesn't mean he'll never coach well. Only that he didn't in that game and the 4 blowout losses.

Only a moron has to resort to that "negavol" label when someone obviously ISN'T one but has arguments you can't answer.

I actually disagree. I think UT's OL if they can find a LT will be BETTER as a unit. I think they'll benefit from understanding of the system... and they're meaner than the guys who left.

I am concerned about the DL but more because the DC developed a habit of putting guys in a position to fail. I think Stripling is a very good coach who has sufficient talent to work with.

It was no worse than Kiffin or Dooley inherited. Probably better. Guys like you complain about a walk on nickel back. Kiffin made a bowl with TWO walk on's starting on the OL at 265 lbs. Dooley made one with a walk on MLB, a Fr QB, and a bunch of Fr or untalented OL's.

Nope. It may help you emotionally to set a bar that low but he can prove himself to be an SEC caliber coach every time he takes the field.

Coaching can be demonstrated without the talent. Kiffin was able to outcoach Saban and Meyer in his first year by a very good strategy and by coaching guys to be in position. Dooley outcoached Miles.

Neither of them lost a game where they had more talent.

That does NOT mean that either will be better in the final analysis... just that they also took over difficult situations and did better than Jones did in year one.

Not really. Talent can make bad coaching look better than it is... just like great coaching can make bad talent look better than it is.

Nope. Glad you are such a "great" fan though that you have such low expectations. Sounds like you are a fan of Jones... not UT.

No. He outcoached Jones with a lesser roster in week 11 of the season when Jones had two weeks to prepare. Maybe Jones is ultimately the better of the two... but he'll never be able to prove it now.

IOW's, they didn't win because of talent... right? They won because the outcoached UT.

No. The bottom line is you are not the god over what makes someone a fan or not. You stop YOUR crap... and I will not bring it up.

It takes talent... I never denied UT had roster issues. It also takes coaching... this staff did not impress on the field.

Yes. And Jones inherited a team loaded with Srs from the one really good class that Dooley signed. He inherited guys who had started in the SEC for a long time. He DID inherit experience and talent.

There were holes and depth issues. For that reason, you couldn't reasonably expect to compete for the SEC East. Winning 6 games however was not a very high bar.

No. Not quite. No one was asking for "excellence" in the SEC. Six wins is not "excellence"... it is minimal.

It is easy to understand. You're just wrong. And you are irritated by "ignorance" when it is you that lacks the courage to face the fact that there were MANY evidences of shortcomings in the coaching this fall and the jury is still very much out on this staff's gameday ability.

Now I know who you are! Thanks Dooley for your end of year commentary on CBJ. No do us a favor and just fade away!! How's that bamboo working out for you?
lol:

P.S. Apparently your simple mind cannot understand basic words. I never called you a name (like you implied I was a moron). I said you were ignorant. Bright boy, look it up in the dictionary and MAYBE you will gain a little knowledge. Just trying to make you less ignorant!
::hi:

 

[Orange_Crush]

U do realize I was responding to a comment where Dooley was brought up right??? Sooooo I didn't just bring him up out of nowhere in ur precious thread bud. SMDH indeed dumbazz.

Btw...like it or not Dooley is apart of UT history.
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Ah... If only...

 

[sjt18]

P.S. I have another clue for you. You will not see "excellence" this year either. This fact does not define CBJ as a good coach or a bad coach. It will take at least three FULL SEASONS to evaluate CBJ as a coach in the SEC.

That is not what Jones believes. He preaches consistency of excellence. That is HIS expectation. I happen to buy in where you apparently don't.

Excellence isn't an achievement. It is a habit. It is what you do and what you become. But of course I'm the one who supposedly doesn't understand things... so I am sure you'll disagree with Butch and me. :good!:

 

[oregonvol]

The only thing coach Jones ever needed to show anyone was progress. Even though, we got our asses kicked by the best teams in the country, we did improve in 2/3 phases of the ball. The O improved a lot as the year went on. I expected 5-7 wins this year. I'm not going to use year one to dismiss coach Jones. Coach Jones was more proven entering the SEC than his peer's first term in the SEC. My only complaint is you're just too early with the doomsday crap. We suck and suck badly. You can't fall for the immediate satisfaction crap even though Dooley was here. There is no magic wand for our ****tiness. The saying goes, if you wanna be a good coach, coach a very talented team.

You clearly missed sjt's point (but that seems to be a habit for most folks on VN). Maybe all coach Jones needs to show the sycophants on here is some tiny progress in "2/3 phases" (wow!) of the game. But, to be fair, that's all Dooley really had to do for most of you too.

sjt was talking about what Jones needs to show recruits. If you think minimal progress is going to impress many top recruits and pull in top recruiting classes over the next 3-4 years, you've clearly never followed recruiting.

Jones has done a fabulous job putting together this class so far, considering how poorly his team and staff performed in 2013. But it would be crazy to expect that to continue over a course of many years.

 

[sjt18]

Now I know who you are! Thanks Dooley for your end of year commentary on CBJ. No do us a favor and just fade away!! How's that bamboo working out for you?
lol:

I will be here and will keep telling the truth whether you like it or not. Things aren't all "rosy" yet and the ability of this staff to compete as coaches against elite level coaches is still very much in question.

So you have choices.

You can deal with the truth and quit being a coward.

You can keep arguing... and having to use dishonesty to do so like accusing me of things I haven't said because you can't answer what I have said.

Or consistent with your name calling and evasion, you can show yourself to be a coward and put me on ignore.

Either way... I'll be here unless Freak asks me to leave. You might as well come to terms with that.

P.S. Apparently your simple mind cannot understand basic words. I never called you a name (like you implied I was a moron).

I described what a moron and coward would do. If the shoe fits...

Yes. You have repeatedly and falsely called me a "negavol". A stupid term used to "poison" the well. You have also accused me of not being a fan, of being a troll, et al. Why? My crime? Disagreeing with you because I won't close my eyes to either positive or negative indicators when it comes to the staff.

I said you were ignorant.

Which is pretty obviously not true. I have known and acknowledged previously the positives you have cited. I have also recognized and stated some of the negatives. That's called "informed, objective, and honest."

Bright boy, look it up in the dictionary and MAYBE you will gain a little knowledge. Just trying to make you less ignorant!
::hi:

Yeah. 'Cause you're so smart and all....:lolabove:

 

[sjt18]

You clearly missed sjt's point (but that seems to be a habit for most folks on VN). Maybe all coach Jones needs to show the sycophants on here is some tiny progress in "2/3 phases" (wow!) of the game. But, to be fair, that's all Dooley really had to do for most of you too.

sjt was talking about what Jones needs to show recruits. If you think minimal progress is going to impress many top recruits and pull in top recruiting classes over the next 3-4 years, you've clearly never followed recruiting.

Jones has done a fabulous job putting together this class so far, considering how poorly his team and staff performed in 2013. But it would be crazy to expect that to continue over a course of many years.

Exactly. Thank you. :good!:

These guys seem to think recruiting occurs in a vacuum. There was even a string of comments in the Sawyer thread about needing 2 or 3 more classes like this one before UT can start competing.

If they don't prove they can coach (as in not getting embarrassed in blowouts and losses to inferior teams) then there likely won't be ANY more classes like this one for Jones.

The funny thing is that I think Jones is well aware of all of this. I think he knew he needed a bowl game in '13 and knows he needs to show definite improve against tough odds in '14.

Many of these guys might as well be arguing against Jones himself with their determined denial/avoidance of reality.

 

[oregonvol]

Exactly. Thank you. :good!:

These guys seem to think recruiting occurs in a vacuum. There was even a string of comments in the Sawyer thread about needing 2 or 3 more classes like this one before UT can start competing.

If they don't prove they can coach (as in not getting embarrassed in blowouts and losses to inferior teams) then there likely won't be ANY more classes like this one for Jones.

The funny thing is that I think Jones is well aware of all of this. I think he knew he needed a bowl game in '13 and knows he needs to show definite improve against tough odds in '14.

Many of these guys might as well be arguing against Jones himself with their determined denial/avoidance of reality.

Yeah, whenever I see someone on here saying that Jones needs 3-4 years before he can be expected to seriously compete in the SEC, it always amazes me. What coach are they comparing him to? What guy in the past 20 years has been mediocre for that long and then suddenly started winning championships? It just doesn't happen.

It has nothing to do with whether fans are patient. Or whether ADs are patient. Patience doesn't translate into wins. At some point you have to start impressing recruits with something other than your facilities and pitch. You just don't see mediocre programs pull in top 5-10 classes year after year. And that is what our rivals are bringing in year after year.

Also, when I see people saying he needs so much time, even more than 3 years, I wonder, why? With the usual class turnover, the team should be almost all Butch recruits by 2015. You don't expect him to get to a certain level with the guys he has recruited and coached exclusively for 3 years, but you expect him to get to that level with the next set of guys he recruits and coaches?

 

[butchna]

Exactly. Thank you. :good!:

These guys seem to think recruiting occurs in a vacuum. There was even a string of comments in the Sawyer thread about needing 2 or 3 more classes like this one before UT can start competing.

If they don't prove they can coach (as in not getting embarrassed in blowouts and losses to inferior teams) then there likely won't be ANY more classes like this one for Jones.

The funny thing is that I think Jones is well aware of all of this. I think he knew he needed a bowl game in '13 and knows he needs to show definite improve against tough odds in '14.

Many of these guys might as well be arguing against Jones himself with their determined denial/avoidance of reality.

This isn't me being argumentative, but my first awareness of you began when you started posting how many wins Butch needed to avoid being fired...BEFORE HE COACHED HIS FIRST GAME..you had an agenda early on and you maintained it...Butch earned some of it this past season,with the blowouts where we barely competed and the failure at Vandy. Now any discourse where "sunshine pumpers" allege that as talent comes in that fits what Butch coaches,the wins will accompany,you dismiss it as the bastion of accountability and expectations...I'm excited at the potential of our new coaching trek and believe we'll see it on the field this year...if it doesn't you'll see more denizens of your outlook...be patient and if you're wrong I'm sure you'll be happy...as I will be unhappy if the opposite is true....just don't be in such a rush to be right :hi:...please limit response to 12 paragraphs...newfreakguideline
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[Nerd-Vol]

Dudes a winner. Plain and simple.

 

[Oskie Volum]

Dudes a winner. Plain and simple.

Dude won CO-Championships. Some where there were up to 4 teams that were champions. Sorry but to me that really isn't something to hang ur hat on.

Not saying he's not going to do well, but winning in the lower ranks doesn't guarantee jack in the SEC.
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[SDV]

Dude won CO-Championships. Some where there were up to 4 teams that were champions. Sorry but to me that really isn't something to hang ur hat on.

Not saying he's not going to do well, but winning in the lower ranks doesn't guarantee jack in the SEC.
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Dooley got canned. Get over him

 

[Aesius]

Dude won CO-Championships. Some where there were up to 4 teams that were champions. Sorry but to me that really isn't something to hang ur hat on.

Not saying he's not going to do well, but winning in the lower ranks doesn't guarantee jack in the SEC.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

It's not a guarantee, but it's a good starting point.

I'd much rather have a guy who turned CMU into a top 25 team than a guy who had a losing record at La Tech.

 

[KBVol]

Dude won CO-Championships. Some where there were up to 4 teams that were champions. Sorry but to me that really isn't something to hang ur hat on.

Not saying he's not going to do well, but winning in the lower ranks doesn't guarantee jack in the SEC.
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Tell us about Dooley's championships. Hell, talk about his season when he won more games than he lost. I got 10-12 seconds....Shouldn't take you long.

Edit: btw, All 4 of Jones' CHAMPIONSHIPS were not shared. Both at Central Michigan were outright. His 2 at Cincy were shared, however, both were 10 win teams.

 

[Oskie Volum]

CBJ needs a bowl game win without fail this upcoming season. He had a perfect storm of legacies, Tenn talent, and an ability to sign an unprecedented 30+ guys this year. Next year most likely won't be the same. Recruits won't be as easy of a sell with all the "bring UT back" stuff. He knows what he is facing schedule wise so that's not an excuse so he needs to get a bowl game or this place will eat him alive. Not saying that because I'm a negavol or classless or a troll. I'm saying it for what's best for the VOls in the future imo. The Legion of the Miserable will start to rise up and eat him up. If CBJ doesn't understand or realize this he'll nvr make it past 3 yrs nor will Hart.

I know so many of yall think I'm some kind of Dooley lover, but my comments have more to do with reminding people how this fan base will bite it's nose off to spite it's face. Ie...yes the '12 D had its issues but we played games competitively that year. All the Gruden crap grew and grew and no matter what the Grudenites saw nothing but Dooley's blood. If CBJ doesn't learn from that, and realize that this isn't a slow rebuild winning wise he'll be gone. I as a fan do not want another coaching turnover any time soon, but know that there is nothing that can be done about it other than winning...NOW!!!
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[FLVOL_79]

Dude won CO-Championships. Some where there were up to 4 teams that were champions. Sorry but to me that really isn't something to hang ur hat on.

Not saying he's not going to do well, but winning in the lower ranks doesn't guarantee jack in the SEC.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Better than losing in the lower ranks (Dooley)...

 

[Oskie Volum]

Better than losing in the lower ranks (Dooley)...

Really??? 3 yrs at the SEC punching bag LA Tech?? He obviously did something right cause Dykes was able to take it to the next level. Btw - that's a classic rebuilding. The guy that takes over tends to look like a genius.
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[butchna]

Really??? 3 yrs at the SEC punching bag LA Tech?? He obviously did something right cause Dykes was able to take it to the next level. Btw - that's a classic rebuilding. The guy that takes over tends to look like a genius.
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Especially if his predecessor...wasn't :aggressive:
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[KBVol]

Really??? 3 yrs at the SEC punching bag LA Tech?? He obviously did something right cause Dykes was able to take it to the next level. Btw - that's a classic rebuilding. The guy that takes over tends to look like a genius.
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And you wonder why everybody on here calls you the ultimate Dooley apologist. Helluva rebuilding job he did at La Tech... 5 wins, 8 wins, 4 wins.

Helluva rebuilding job he did at UT.... 6 wins to 5 wins to 4 wins...rarely do great rebuilding jobs result in worse records the further you go along.

 

[Oskie Volum]

All you have to do is look at Oskie Volum or whatever his name is Avi and realize what you are dealing with. A man of real class for sure!

What does my avi and what I've had to say have to do with having class?? I guarantee u don't have more class than me bud. I just know how to balance it with humor. Oh and btw...I bought that foam finger outside of Neyland when I was a student. So I guess many Vol fans don't have ur level of class.

Ur a classic homer that is unable to see other POVs. Stop calling people out and understand their pts before u keep looking like a fool. If u don't comprehend the others pt than u can't successfully argue against them. That's why u resort to trying to bash others. That may work in ur little world of tea and crumpits, but some of us here are smart enough to read through ur crap and aren't scared to put u in ur place. Which u have obviously experienced all ready.
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[butchna]

Now he's more upset than usual and frying his goldfish :focus:...thanks govols15 :no:
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[sjt18]

Also, when I see people saying he needs so much time, even more than 3 years, I wonder, why? With the usual class turnover, the team should be almost all Butch recruits by 2015. You don't expect him to get to a certain level with the guys he has recruited and coached exclusively for 3 years, but you expect him to get to that level with the next set of guys he recruits and coaches?

After Wednesday, somewhere between 52 and 57 of the 85 scholarship players on the roster will have been signed by Jones. Nine of the 22 players signed by DD in '12 are already gone. So by NSD one year from now, Jones will have chosen between 70-75 of the 85 scholarship players on the roster. Maybe 5 or 6 of the guys from that class have shown any sign of competing for real playing time or a starting slot.

IOW's, it is completely fair to say he's had enough time to make significant progress by '15.

 

[sjt18]

This isn't me being argumentative, but my first awareness of you began when you started posting how many wins Butch needed to avoid being fired...BEFORE HE COACHED HIS FIRST GAME..you had an agenda early on and you maintained it...

I did the same thing when Dooley was hired and after 2005 concerning Fulmer. I was right both times. My only "agenda" is to see UT rise behind a great coach. I hope Jones is that... but the standard is the same regardless of the name. He needs to prove he's an elite coach by winning games.

Butch earned some of it this past season,with the blowouts where we barely competed and the failure at Vandy. Now any discourse where "sunshine pumpers" allege that as talent comes in that fits what Butch coaches,the wins will accompany,you dismiss it as the bastion of accountability and expectations...

Do you just read what allows you to disagree with me?

Recruiting is going amazingly well and I have NOT written Jones off. I DO respond to folks who just think that the bad results of '13 should be ignored or cannot be an indicator of how this will turn out.

I'm excited at the potential of our new coaching trek and believe we'll see it on the field this year...if it doesn't you'll see more denizens of your outlook...

After reading as many of my posts as you apparently have... it appears you have no idea what my "outlook" is.

be patient and if you're wrong I'm sure you'll be happy...as I will be unhappy if the opposite is true....just don't be in such a rush to be right :hi:

The only thing I currently claim to be right about is that '13 was a poor performance and that we don't "know" if the staff is good enough or not. It is folks like Govols15 who claim to "know" that '13 means nothing and that Jones is definitely the right coach.

...please limit response to 12 paragraphs...newfreakguideline
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Done.... I think.

 

[sjt18]

Fulmer failed because the game and other SEC coaches passed him by.

Dooley failed because he was not an SEC caliber coach and certainly not up to the challenge hetook on.

Jones is now proving himself. His first season was subpar. He has two more IMO to show that he's much better than that.